All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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Dr. Watson
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Dr. Watson »

Maybe it was just because by the point i got to them, i had gotten used to the crapish physics, but while playing the Mad Gear levels i got stronger "fuck yeah, this is the Sonic i grew up with!"-feelings than any other post-Sonic and Knuckles installment has managed to give me before. The design of those levels is just totally way past juice and jam-time cool! Chilidog!

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Kogen
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Kogen »

Reviews are more mixed than the first round of 9/10s seem. The averages keep going down, so maybe you just need to wait a little longer for it to fail.

They did say they would remove anything with a poor score on Metacritic, after all!

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

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Majestic Joey
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Majestic Joey »

one thing I really hated was how in this game, for some reason in all the levels they make sonic get launched off a spring into an area where you can't see what's in front off you, directly into a floating enemy. I like how the designer thought, "ok, we will just put some rings here so the player knows he has to do a random homing attack that may or may not lock on, on to a enemy off screen."

the ruins level was pretty cool looking though.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Segaholic2 »

This game is awful.

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James McGeachie
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by James McGeachie »

Blasted through the game in one sitting tonight.

I enjoyed the experience more than disliked it, I'm fairly sure of that. I just made sure to actually play it the way it seemed Sega "wanted me" to. In other words, trying my damnest to ignore the physics issues and endlessly hold right whenever I was moving.

The game is obviously deeply flawed though for what it's supposed to be. Every zone other than Mad Gear lacks any sense of soul and there's very little level design wise that gives the impression the staff felt even remotely inspired.

I do wonder if part of the issue is that Dimps just can't physically give a shit anymore after endlessly pumping out 2D Sonic games for like 10 years. I know Sega's influence is always likely to be part of the reason the games turn out mediocre/poor, but assuming a lot of the Dimps staff have worked on 2D titles since the Advance games, I can imagine at this point they're simply doing it for the money and could've really give a fuck otherwise.

When I say I enjoyed the game that was simply from setting my standards extremely low, I'm not going to claim it's a good game and it certainly isnt really worth 1200 Microsoft points. I don't really regret it though, I wanted to play it now while I still gave a shit and had time.

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(No Imagination)
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by (No Imagination) »

James McGeachie wrote: The game is obviously deeply flawed though for what it's supposed to be. Every zone other than Mad Gear lacks any sense of soul and there's very little level design wise that gives the impression the staff felt even remotely inspired.

I do wonder if part of the issue is that Dimps just can't physically give a shit anymore after endlessly pumping out 2D Sonic games for like 10 years. I know Sega's influence is always likely to be part of the reason the games turn out mediocre/poor, but assuming a lot of the Dimps staff have worked on 2D titles since the Advance games, I can imagine at this point they're simply doing it for the money and could've really give a fuck otherwise.
But Dimps never were much inspired to begin with (except maybe with Rush Adventure, never played that one) ... Pocket Adventure looks like a "best of" collection of some sort and the Advances just play it safe by sticking to popular stuff. Because 3D is all the rage these days and nobody wants to put a lot of money and thought into a serious 2D game, just label random fan favorite 2D levels as "tropes", change the color and vegetation a bit and voila, brand new FUN FUN Sonic levels. There's a hilly coast, a casino, ruins and a factory. "So what? It's tradition! There's always been a hilly coast, a casino, a ruin and a factory!" ...well maybe, but back then not all of them played like a juice-less and dummied down Star Light / Chemical Plant / Mushroom Hill with distinctly separated "this is where you watch Sonic run" and "this is where you stop and do platforming" segments where no initiative to develop their own pace through the level is expected from the player whatsoever.

I admit tho' - if you manage to adapt yourself to a dumber, lazier and more straightforward control scheme, then this game might become sort of fun. And hey. It still could be a lot worse; frankly I'm kind of surprised it doesn't feature obligatory grinding on random rails suspended above humongous bottomless pits.

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Kogen
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Kogen »

Here is a look at Metacritic for those who have not bothered: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360 ... -episode-1

Apparently 'the game is good but it messed up' is the main opinion. Users hate it, however!

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Zeta
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Zeta »

I spent most of the demo running into invisible walls. This game is pretty terrible.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Kogen »

UPDATE: it has gone down a whole 1%! Just two more and it is officially bad and going to be removed!

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Esrever »

I'm really surprised the reviewers have been so charitable! I just downloaded the demo and I thought it was unforgivable. What the hell is going on with Sonic's midair momentum? The way he comes to a screeching halt and drops like a rock the second you let go of the dpad is so ridiculous looking, it actually made my girlfriend burst out laughing. (And she hasn't played a Sonic game in about 15 years!) And that Sonic model is one hell of an eyesore.

I'm actually kind of astounded that DIMPS managed to make a game that looks this bad and feels this wrong. There was always at least SOME merit to be found in all their previous Sonic titles. Where did it all go?

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by K2J »

I'm really surprised the reviewers have been so charitable!
I think you mean "oblivious".

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Rob-Bert »

I assume they're distracted by the retro sound effects, recycled level themes and Genesis drum samples.

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Kogen
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Kogen »

I actually played the full game today and it is literally the quality of Sonic 06. I thought just the physics were ass but the entire game is - graphics, sound, level design, pacing, choice of gimmicks... it is all horrible.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Opa-Opa »

It is no Sonic 06. Sonic 06 is an abomination. Like Superman 64, it nears unplayability. That's not the case with Sonic 4.

I finished Sonic 4 yesterday with all the emeralds. And I actually had fun trying to get them. The only times I was really frustrated were when the physics got the best of me, like in the end of Labyrinth act 2, after the mine cart crashes and sends you flying towards the next cart over a bottomless pit. The law of physics tell me that Sonic should keep moving through the air regardless of any command I don't give, but Sonic 4's physics are just plain stupid and require you to keep pushing forward or else Sonic will stop mid-air and fall. Sonic's sprite's hitboxes are very wrong, so I never know exactely when he will touch an enemy or break a monitor or take damage. That also sucks when you're trying to jump from the very end of a platform and end up just doing the homing attack because he was already beggining to fall (that killed me and took my rings more times than any surprise enemy in the game). About the homing attack... well, it's fun. I kind of dig it, and I really think it was well implemented, but that target crosshair really doesn't belong there. They should just make a proper homing attack where you could instinctively know where Sonic will head to (like in Sonic Adventure 1). In the end, my main concern about it was about the lack of originality that just reeks out of this game.

I think some of you are overreacting. You can say the physics are broken, the levels and bosses are rehashed, the graphics aren't great (actually, my only real complaint is towards Sonic's sprite), and some of the music sucks, that you can.

We've played enough Sonic to know our way around it in the dark, backwards. We KNOW how the Sonic physics are. We KNOW how the old Sonic games play. Sonic 4 was a step in the right direction. Not a very big step, but it's a step. You may not like it, but saying it is the quality of Sonic 06 is just wrong.

Anyway, as I said, I beat Sonic 4 and was actually feeling pretty good about it.

But then I played Sonic Fan Remix, and goddammit Sonic 4 really sucks donkey balls.

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James McGeachie
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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by James McGeachie »

I finished Sonic 4 yesterday with all the emeralds. And I actually had fun trying to get them
Even the last stage that's an unforgiving nightmare where one tiny fucking mistake at the end and whoops, you're fucked?

To be utterly honest I got through that stage by constantly pausing and unpausing the game to adjust my trajectory accordingly and if I hadn't then there's no way I'd have had the patience to get all the emeralds.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Esrever »

The reason I can't even view Sonic 4 as a "step in the right direction" is because I don't think it's even particularly good for a DIMPS Sonic. Actually, it might be their worst!

I know my favourite (Sonic Rush Adventure) is way too different from the classic formula to really compare directly... but even as far as bland-but-competent classic rehashes go, I think Pocket Adventure and the original Advance were much more successful than Sonic 4.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Kogen »

Keep in mind that it is not just DIMPS doing it. They work directly with Sonic Team. Iizuka, for example, is the director, not a DIMPS employee. So there is a reason why the quality is varying for no apparently reason (assuming you cannot see who directed DIMPS).

Pocket Adventure, for example, got 9s and 10s and was packaged with a SNK's handheld as the pack-in game. DIMPS can do great games, it is just a certain something is weighing them down (hint: starts with an i).

I think just the core game design alone shows how trash this is. You can go from (no)Splash Hill Zone Act 1 right to Mad Gear Zone Act 1 - supposedly 'Eggman`s secret base'. There is not even a sense of progression or balance.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Crazy Penguin »

Definitely the worst DIMPS Sonic game. The poor physics and Sonic controlling like a tank utterly kill any chance the game had. I really don't get it. None of the Advance or Rush games had these problems.

The stages themselves play like the worst aspects of the Sonic Advance series, complete with huge bottomless pits early in the game. The homing attack is utterly broken, and its only purpose is to use static floating Bubbles badniks as clumsy platforms (one of the weakest aspects of the Adventure games). The Special Stages are conceptually good, but with poorly designed mazes that lead to a lot of cheap losses. The bosses are a clusterfuck of nonsense. Sonic's running animation is ugly. The music is sub-par at best.

I don't know how this even passed quality control. The Sonic Advance games may have been poor to mediocre, but Sonic 4 is barely even playable. The whole game is a train wreck.

I can only hope that the DIMPS staff who were responsible for the surprisingly good Sonic Rush Adventure are hard at work on Sonic Colours DS and weren't involved with this atrocity.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Crowbar »

Sonic Rush actually did have many aspects of the physics in Sonic 4 (running straight up walls, falling straight down unless you hold a direction, though I notice, upon testing it again, that you do actually roll down hills, even if it's not always the fastest way to travel), but they tended not to be so extreme, weren't marred by more serious problems like the atrocious acceleration, the level design didn't rely so much on inane bullshit like the homing attack chains (and, for the record, the bottomless pits were only actually a problem in two levels in Sonic Rush), and newer aspects like the boost, while maybe not the best mechanics, both helped distract from smaller deficiencies and also made it clear that these were new games, not poor attempts at old games.

Sonic 4 just feels so... offensive because it fails so badly at everything we were told it would be.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by j-man »

Well, I'm not sure about you guys, but I definitely thought this game was a huge fucking disappointment!

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by FlashTHD »

Crazy Penguin wrote:I don't know how this even passed quality control.
Does the phrase "born in a marketing meeting" come to mind?

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Crisis »

Played it, found it painfully forgettable despite the occasional flash of nostalgia. I watched someone who's reasonably good at it play and it looked a lot better, but still like it was running on a beta Rush engine.

What's the cutoff point for Sonic Metacritic scores? Right now Sonic 4 is hovering at 71%, with early review scores seeming to be the most positive while well thought-out ones doing little to offset them. All the more reason not to use Metacritic to evaluate game quality.

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Opa-Opa »

James McGeachie wrote:
I finished Sonic 4 yesterday with all the emeralds. And I actually had fun trying to get them
Even the last stage that's an unforgiving nightmare where one tiny fucking mistake at the end and whoops, you're fucked?

To be utterly honest I got through that stage by constantly pausing and unpausing the game to adjust my trajectory accordingly and if I hadn't then there's no way I'd have had the patience to get all the emeralds.
Actually, I got the last emerald on my first try. My main problem was with 3rd and 6th emeralds, I believe. I tried playing the 7th emerald stage again and failed terribly. Maybe I just lucked out, but I thought it was quite balanced, with some rocks to bump you away from the exit blocks and plenty of room to maneuver. Some stages were mostly about memorizing, but most Special Stages in the classic series were like that as well. I remember doing a LOT of pausing and unpausing back then.

I don't know guys... surely it isn't everything Sega promised us but it isn't the clusterfuck of shitness that some of you are claiming it to be. It has its problems, but I had a lot of fun.

Also, its nice to finally play with Super Sonic in regular stages again, even though his theme sucks balls. What the hell is wrong with Jun Senoue?

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Re: All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

Post by Xyton »

So, if -- IF -- this game DIDN'T have broken physics, do you guys think you'd consider it good, or at least decent? I didn't think the level designes were terrible, though I'm usually on the more forgiving side of the tolerance gradient of this forum.

I though it was alright. With working physics, it could have been better. To really stand as a return to the classics, though, it would have to not so based on them. (That is to say, this never would have flown as Sonic 3, or the first part of Sonic 3.) Some of the new boss mechanics were cool, but between that and the obviously-based-on-previous-zones levels, I feel like we got Sonic HD Remix rather than a f'real new game, which is unfortunate.

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