All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

[Maruyama]

Project Needlemouse, huh? Quite peculiar that they chose Sonic's prototype name for this project.

I'll simply ignore what PR says and focus on the intention behind this game. Someone from Sega said last month that their primary demographic for Sonic games is children under 12. I assume that statement was suppose to serve as an explanation, albeit a half-hearted one, as to why these Sonic games are not catered toward us. But can anyone really buy into this explanation? Okay, so Sega is catering to children under 12. Apparently longtime fans are not a profitable demographic anymore. Yet, at the same time, we have PR throwing around phrases such as "back to the roots" every time the next big Sonic title is announced. And these marketing phrases are not used sparingly. No, they are used constantly by the press until the game is released.

So we have Project Needlemouse. A teaser is released on the 10th anniversary of the Dreamcast, said teaser touts that the game is 2D, the winged ring banner is used as a silhouette, and the game is called Project Needlemouse. Who knows about that name other than oldschool Ohshima-worshipping Sonic fans? There is a reason why Sega keeps doing this, and it's because they already know we're a profitable demographic. They know there are more of us out there, they know classic Sonic has universal appeal, and they know that children can enjoy classic Sonic too. The problem lies in recapturing that magic, and I'm not sure anyone within Sega still knows how to do that. Then again, I'm not sure many developers outside Sega can do it either.

*Shrugs* At least they're trying this time.

[Dr. Watson]

If the game will actually feature those old 16-bit sound effects heard in the teaser, then maybe the game will at least be able to invoke some feelings of nostalgia in me, even if it sucks.

Err... wait... im playing right into Sega's hand now, aren't i?

[Kogen]

Who's saying it's not another Story Book entry. Those green hills in that teaser site look to be channeling Alice in Wonderland. The Disney version at least

HD does not work on the exercise machine.

[G.Silver]

A cool 2D Sonic, especially one that is inexpensive from the get-go (cheap to develop and to sell) is going to be a winning ticket in both the little kid and the creepy older Sonic fan demographic. There are certainly examples to follow, after Megaman 9 Sega was already talking about this and Bionic Commando Rearmed is a perfect example of a small-scale 2D download-only project that everyone loves (ok maybe everyone) alongside a high-budget flop that caused the developer behind both titles to go out of business, so if Sega were watching carefully this should be a piece of cake.

That teaser website has me worried already, though.

[Ngangbius]

Oh, it's me alright.

You do know that this could only end in big and bitter tears, right?

[G.Silver]

New thought. Obviously no one wants anyone but Sonic in the game, except maybe Tails for a second player. If other characters are offered as DLC (and we can be sure that they will), are we happy that they are wholly optional and need not even appear to sully the experience, or are we mad because they sold us an "unfinished product?"

[Dr. BUGMAN]

I would feel robbed without Knuckles, but to hell with the rest.

Not that I plan to get this.

[Wombatwarlord777]

Who else thinks the story will involve modern-day Sonic traveling back in time and *gasp* meeting his younger 16-bit self? And who thinks they'll team up to stop the combined forces of Eggman, old-school Eggman, Sonic '06 Eggman, Eggman Nega, Captain Whisker, and the AoStH and SatAM Robotniks?

Who else thinks the developers are gonna taint the original Sonic the Hedgehog?

[Samface]

Who else thinks the story will involve modern-day Sonic traveling back in time and *gasp* meeting his younger 16-bit self? And who thinks they'll team up to stop the combined forces of Eggman, old-school Eggman, Sonic '06 Eggman, Eggman Nega, Captain Whisker, and the AoStH and SatAM Robotniks?

I think that sounds awesome. But that's just me being an idiot.

[Crowbar]

New thought. Obviously no one wants anyone but Sonic in the game, except maybe Tails for a second player. If other characters are offered as DLC (and we can be sure that they will), are we happy that they are wholly optional and need not even appear to sully the experience, or are we mad because they sold us an "unfinished product?"

I'd be annoyed because they wouldn't actually add anything meaningful to the game, since the levels wouldn't have been designed with any of their abilities in mind.
If they HAD, though, then yes, it would be sold-us-an-unfinished-product anger.

[Maruyama]

Since nothing specific is going to be announced about this game for a while, now is a good time to discuss what we would like to see from this game. What criteria do you have for this game in order for it to not suck? What would constitute as a good game for you if this game were to not disappoint?

I don't expect it to perfectly recapture the classic Sonic experience 100%, but it should be playable no less. I don't want to overthink it too much because that just defeats the whole point of enjoying 2D Sonic games. If it has speed sections in between platforming sections, badniks, good music and Robotnik boss fights, I'll be happy. But there must be no interruptions in between all that. I don't want to find myself slogging through stages with alternate gameplay styles that differ too much from Sonic's regular gameplay. The whole game should just be 2D platforming goodness, that's it. There's no need to try to innovate on that because Sonic's gameplay is already fun on its own. Those alternate gameplay styles are simply not as fun. Momentum-based gameplay would be great too.

The criteria above would already earn the game a B in my eyes. For it to get an A, it would have to have no new characters, no modern Sonic characters (meaning everyone after Big the Cat), no retarded stories about ancient doomsday prophesies, Robotnik as the main villian, no giant monster to fight in the end, less dash pads, and bottomless pits kept at a minimum.

[Radrappy]

now is a good time to discuss what we would like to see from this game. What criteria do you have for this game in order for it to not suck? What would constitute as a good game for you if this game were to not disappoint?

you serious?

[Maruyama]

Try me.

[Shadow Hog]

Sure, why not.

I want a game that plays like Sonic 3&K. Everything they'd done to that point culminated in that title, and it seems like a step backwards to go forward with anything else. Failing that, maybe just something like Sonic 2.

Focus less on speed, focus more on pinball physics and unique level design that has elements of platforming and insane whoamg speed delicately mixed, yet seamlessly a part of one another such that speed smoothly transitions into platforming, which then opens up to speed, which smoothly transitions into platforming, etc. Add unique gimmicks for the platforming segments, and a few in the speed ones designed to make use of Sonic's speed in unique fashions (the swings in Mushroom Hill come to mind - come at them fast enough and you can launch yourself high, but come at them slowly and you'd just swing back and forth).

Ditch the goddamn Egg Pawns; give us some real, bona fide animal badniks to bop.

Use Zones and Acts. Come up with original ideas for said levels - an autumnal forest hasn't really been done (outside of Mushroom Hill, but that didn't really FEEL like an autumnal forest more than it felt like the summer forest from Act 1 with a palette change).

Keep other characters to cameos only, except Tails and Knuckles (if you can come up with a DAMN good excuse for him to be in the game and not watching over the Master Emerald like the stoic he is). If they are included, make the level design varied enough that playing as the other characters will reveal new heretofore unseen paths by utilizing their special characteristics - flying and crashing through walls/climbing, respectively. Also, give Sonic an ability that allows him to have his own separate paths, as that was a rather major oversight in S3&K (Tails could see all of Sonic's path, plus a few rooms of his own; Knuckles often used Sonic's path, but at least he deviated enough due to his low jump to make Sonic's unique from his own).

Too much to ask? Probably. Okay, then, just make Sonic Advance 1, but in HD. It wasn't as good as the Genesis games, but damnit it was close enough, and STILL far better than anything that came after it.

[Xyton]

A level editor would be kind of cool. Especially if there was a way to share said levels.
(inb4lolSMBworld1-1)

[Dr. BUGMAN]

(if you can come up with a DAMN good excuse for him to be in the game and not watching over the Master Emerald like the stoic he is)

I'd be happy if the damned thing just fell out of continuity. What did the ME add, honestly?

[Delphine]

you serious?

Posts: 3

Dude.

[Wombatwarlord777]

Come up with original ideas for said levels

Given that Sonic is always busting legions of robots, I'm kind of surprised there haven't been any badnik-saturated landfill zones yet. If they adapted the visual style of the Vectorman games to such a level, it would probably be awesome.

The moves Sonic learned from his 3D titles (the Homing Attack and Lightspeed Dash, specifically) would feel really cheap in a 2D plane, and can go to hell. One feature of the newer games that I'd like to see more of are rails. They're a great way to add complexity to a stage, but would probably be better confined to environments where they'd be appropriate (say, in an urban-themed zone).

[Hulkshmash]

Hey, if they just rip off metal slug, that'd actually be pretty awesome.
Imagine a faster version of metal slug.... *breathes deeply*
On a serious note, I'm hoping for the traditional invincible player 2 tails, or else it's not Classic Sonic...

Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic CD and the 8-bit games aren't Classic Sonic!

As soon as I wrote that, I knew that would be the response.
I decided not to change that seeing how I never played 8 bit sonic, sonic Cd, or any of the ones that didn't have Tails.
Classic Sonic, to me, was playing tails and having my friend hide in the corner while I beat the boss.

[Kogen]

Why do people get emo about other characters?

It would be weird without Eggman,Tails, and the badnik-animals at least.

[Wombatwarlord777]

I decided not to change that seeing how I never played 8 bit sonic, sonic Cd, or any of the ones that didn't have Tails.
Classic Sonic, to me, was playing tails and having my friend hide in the corner while I beat the boss.

So, I guess Sonic the Hedgehog isn't "Classic Sonic", then? Or perhaps, to quote the esteemed Kogen, you're being a little autistic?

Concerning Sonic CD... You're right... It feels entirely different from the trio (quartet?) of Mega Drive games, in terms of gameplay, aesthetics, and the lack of Tails. But that doesn't prevent Sonic CD from being its own rich, gratifying experience. If you really haven't played it yet, you sure ought to. And that's not criticism on my part. Believe me, you'll have fun.

As for the 8-bit Sonics, you should play Sonic and Tails 2 and avoid the rest like the plague.

[Hulkshmash]

I decided not to change that seeing how I never played 8 bit sonic, sonic Cd, or any of the ones that didn't have Tails.
Classic Sonic, to me, was playing tails and having my friend hide in the corner while I beat the boss.

So, I guess Sonic the Hedgehog isn't "Classic Sonic", then? Or perhaps, to quote the esteemed Kogen, you're being a little autistic?

Concerning Sonic CD... You're right... It feels entirely different from the trio (quartet?) of Mega Drive games, in terms of gameplay, aesthetics, and the lack of Tails. But that doesn't prevent Sonic CD from being its own rich, gratifying experience. If you really haven't played it yet, you sure ought to. And that's not criticism on my part. Believe me, you'll have fun.

As for the 8-bit Sonics, you should play Sonic and Tails 2 and avoid the rest like the plague.

The phrase "to me" generally defines my own opinion.
Although honestly, I dislike the original Sonic the Hedgehog with a passion.
I never had the pleasure of owning a SINGLE Sega console (well, other than the game gear... yeah). So I could only play sonic with my friends, I always wanted to try Sonic CD but never got the chance to play it, due to none of my friends having a Sega CD or the PC version.

[Crisis]

Now that initial cynicism has been expressed, I feel the need to state the obvious and point out we ALL saw this coming a mile away and that this is also probably SEGA's best chance at making a classic Sonic game for years, arguably for over a decade. That trailer revealed absolutely nothing (other than a 2010 release, which will hopefully be delayed!) so I remain cautiously optimistic. I hope SEGA realises that their flagship franchise might just live or die on this final act of desperation.

Personally I would be happy with Rush quality since it's pretty obvious the Sonic Team that made Unleashed couldn't begin to make a game like S3&K, and I would much rather they took on something their size and polished it, rather than spend all their effort in a futile attempt to capture the spirit of game they don't have a chance in hell of recreating. Especially at this point, where there is a serious potential for the resurrection of the series. The only way they could get away with Genesis-era greatness would be to outsource, which would be fine by me, but I get the impression that SEGA has too much pride.

[P.P.A.]

Yeah, if you haven't played Sonic CD you really have to. You won't even know what Sonic is about until you've experienced it!
Also Sonic Chaos is quite fun too (although it plays better on the Master System), so limiting the 8-bit games to only S&T2 would be a bit unfair. Sonic 2 is simple but sometimes quite frustrating fun on the Master System, and Sonic 1 MS isn't really worth playing except for the awesome music.

[Kogen]

I decided not to change that seeing how I never played 8 bit sonic, sonic Cd, or any of the ones that didn't have Tails.
Classic Sonic, to me, was playing tails and having my friend hide in the corner while I beat the boss.

So, I guess Sonic the Hedgehog isn't "Classic Sonic", then? Or perhaps, to quote the esteemed Kogen, you're being a little autistic?

Concerning Sonic CD... You're right... It feels entirely different from the trio (quartet?) of Mega Drive games, in terms of gameplay, aesthetics, and the lack of Tails. But that doesn't prevent Sonic CD from being its own rich, gratifying experience. If you really haven't played it yet, you sure ought to. And that's not criticism on my part. Believe me, you'll have fun.

As for the 8-bit Sonics, you should play Sonic and Tails 2 and avoid the rest like the plague.

Wombatwarloid777 is a wiener. Sonic 1/2 on SMS are good games and classic Sonic.

My guess is this game is going to be more like Sonic 3/K. Something like Sonic 1 or 2 do not have enough content. They need several characters to give the game length/value as I assume this is a retail 59.99 game.

I think only the weird internet nerds would moan about this. Normal people who want a sequel to Sonic before the 'revamp' would be fine with a Sonic 4.


Edit!

Yeah, if you haven't played Sonic CD you really have to. You won't even know what Sonic is about until you've experienced it!
Also Sonic Chaos is quite fun too (although it plays better on the Master System), so limiting the 8-bit games to only S&T2 would be a bit unfair. Sonic 2 is simple but sometimes quite frustrating fun on the Master System, and Sonic 1 MS isn't really worth playing except for the awesome music.

Sonic Chaos is laggy and horrible on SMS, and likely the same diarrhea on Game Gear. Sonic 1 and 2 play without any lag at all.

I even think Sonic 1 on SMS is equal to the MD version. If this was made in 16-bit, I would say it is the better game, even.

Both 1 and 2 8-bit are just as good as CD (hardware limitations to be accounted for), which is awkwardly over rated by the previously mentioned weird internet nerds.