All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

[Neo]

Cool, that last boss actually seems a bit difficult. In fact, the difficulty curve is so ridiculously steep, it might as well be a wall.

It probably just looks weird because he doesn't spin as fast when he jumps now, which is something I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned (i.e. complained about).

I actually noticed this, but first thought the spinning animation had a fixed speed (a slow one) so I didn't mention it. Later I noticed it DOES speed up, but not every time it should.

I mean, :V

Or maybe I'm not a haughty jaded douchebag that HAS to pick away at every little detail.

:3

I must be blind, because I certainly didn't see any of these tiny flaws until obsessers like Neo up there pointed them out.

:3

The physics look perfectly fine despite being built on Rush's engine.

yay I can make gifs too

[Segaholic2]

Or maybe I'm not a haughty jaded douchebag that HAS to pick away at every little detail.

Being able to identify glaring faults and design issues does not make you a haughty jaded douchebag, it makes you someone with discerning taste. As if having standards is suddenly a bad thing.

[Rob-Bert]

Thing is, the flaws in question aren't really all that "glaring". So far only that one from Casino Street and the one Neo just posted were the only obvious ones, and even those only happen once. How can any of us tell how often Sonic getting stuck on a convex hill like that is going to happen? Better yet, how badly is it going to affect the game in the long run?

My point is, a few tiny flaws like that aren't going to kill the whole game. At least I don't think so. It's not like the original trilogy was completely flawless.

[Dr. BUGMAN]

Yeah guys it's not like the genesis games were running on inferior hardware or anything.

[Xyton]

I don't think the processing power of the hardware makes a difference in the physics, and graphically is certainly outpaces the Genesis. I'm not sure I get your point, unless you mean that because the newer hardware is more powerful it should be less glitchy, which isn't really how it goes. If anything, I would expect it to be the other way around.

As far as my opinion of the game goes, let's just say it looks like there's room for improvement, but I'd still like to try it. Preferably without buying it. (It looks like it'll at least be fun for a playthrough, but not so sure about the replay value.)

[G.Silver]

Well, you can count on a demo, right? I don't see any point in watching anyone who isn't me fumble through the whole game, I'm not watching any of these.

[Gaz]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

From what I've seen(and I haven't seen the leaked gameplay videos either) I don't think it looks that bad but I don't think it looks particularly great either. Some of the complaints being made seem valid but a lot of them seem really nitpicky.

[Blank]

I like reading through all the nitpicking. I like being pointed out things that a casual glance might let pass, and its the reason I like this board. Its not like anyone took said one nitpick factor as reason for the game's demise. Its more like a variety of factors. Its those "How could they even let that pass?" moments that make it hard to look forward to a game.

Anyways, Dimps is just retreading their GBA days with Rush experience. Except with music I can barely stand, physics that don't properly fit and gimmicky gameplay that leaves something to be desired. I wouldn't bother calling the level design better then either of the advance games yet, but comparing mediocrity is kind of lame. The fact is I did like playing Advance 3 somewhat, but I feel completely disinterested in playing this.

There's no reason to get vehement, I don't think any of this would even be getting much attention if the title wasn't Sonic 4. We wouldn't have even given it a second thought if it was Sonic Advance 4, but we can still see flaws for what they are. Glaring or not, how much they add up to your experience is totally subjective.

[Blount]

Really final stage (spoilers ahead): http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5448/6300.mp4

Basically just your average boss rush + Eggman Robo. Also, Metal Sonic confirmed for Episode 2.

[CM August]

As far as shameless rehashes go, that was rather cool. Except for the music, which is fucking terrible.

[Segaholic2]

So, most of the bosses are rehashed from previous games to begin with, and then they're rehashed again at the end of the game. Someone remind me when rehashed boss rushes were fun. I've always hated the concept from a design and gameplay standpoint. It's lazy padding. I curse Sonic Advance or whichever game it was that introduced the concept to the series.

The two songs in the final stage are even more terrible than the other tracks I listened to. They both seem to be on a ~15 second loop, and that one video was enough to make them more annoying to me than the Super Sonic jingle from any other game.

The final final boss takes far too many hits to kill. Even with the homing attack cutting out all the work for the player I thought it went on far too long without enough variation.

I agree with whoever it was that said they want to try it without paying for it. I'm not particularly interested in playing it at all; call it morbid curiosity about how bad the game will actually be. I doubt I'll ever feel the need to own this game, and frankly I'd rather not give Sega the money for this apparent crap.

[j-man]

So, most of the bosses are rehashed from previous games to begin with, and then they're rehashed again at the end of the game. Someone remind me when rehashed boss rushes were fun. I've always hated the concept from a design and gameplay standpoint. It's lazy padding. I curse Sonic Advance or whichever game it was that introduced the concept to the series.

Mega Man, wasn't it? :D

I've watched a fair few of those videos but I'm laying off now, I think. I'm wary of spoiling the entire thing for myself (especially after I just moused-over the above spoiler that Metal Sonic is returning, and I got annoyed at my own lack of restraint). I wouldn't have anything to look forward to, then! Ho ho.

Going off at a slight tangent; anyone know why there's such a big hoo-ha over Sonic 4 discussion at Retro? I know a couple of you post there, and seeing every orange name on the board screaming U DUN FUKED UP NOW has got my Drama Sense tingling. Was it over the same leaks we've got posted above?

[K2J]

Apparently. It seems they had "plans" or some other nonsense. Isn't Retro supposed to be... you know, a research site? Perhaps they're more concerned about their (acknowledged but mostly blind-eyed) relationship with Sega now. Rule 15 seems to have been added for this reason.

To be honest, I think they're just trying to find an excuse to shut the topic down.

[Ritz]

It's pretty funny, really, as if they were expecting people to courteously refrain from spoiling content once they hit Mad Gear, because the 10% of what was left was totally going to justify the wait. Yes, they're truly fucking despicable!

Retro's role in the community has always been to fill that gritty niche where piracy was condoned and information was paramount, but it seems now that Tweaker & co. are more concerned about usurping Sonic Stadium's position as Sega's crusty mouthpiece, as if we need two of those. What does he think compliance is going to net us that Stadium wouldn't have nabbed anyway? Betas? Christ.

Why did I ever start ignoring this place?

[Malchik]

That's just plain sad. A community that practically released all of Heroes game play, art, and music, has reduced itself to Sonic Stadium.

[Kogen]

Sonic Retro existed prior to Sonic Heroes' release?

If I recall right, Sonic Retro is a merger of two sites: a Sonic furry site and Simon Wai's Sonic 2 Beta Page. Since Simon quit, I do not really think it can be considered the same site.

[K2J]

Tweaker's commented on TSSZ and X-CulT about the lockdown. Pretty much says what a couple of people here have said: they're doing this in order to keep up a relationship with Sega.

[Tweaker]

Retro's role in the community has always been to fill that gritty niche where piracy was condoned and information was paramount, but it seems now that Tweaker & co. are more concerned about usurping Sonic Stadium's position as Sega's crusty mouthpiece, as if we need two of those. What does he think compliance is going to net us that Stadium wouldn't have nabbed anyway? Betas? Christ.

You're acting under the assumption that our role has really changed at all. But it's not like our "goal" has been piracy as much as it's simply been a research of prerelease material. You can consider this an exception to the general policy we have in that regard (and I use that word pretty lightly).

On a totally unrelated note, I think the other thing a lot of people don't consider is that a lot of the shit our sites do is... pretty fucking illegal. It's a wonder none of us have been shut down considering the degree of things we do. I'd say a little bit of cooperation ensuring our future survival can't be the worst thing in the world either. TSSZ is pretty close to getting shut down for its big mouth and its arrogance, for example; it'd be pretty stupid to try and follow in its footsteps as if we'd be accomplishing anything.

[gr4yJ4Y]

I don't see any point in watching anyone who isn't me fumble through the whole game, I'm not watching any of these.

(I haven't seen the leaked gameplay videos either) Some of the complaints being made seem valid but a lot of them seem really nitpicky.

Thank you! I thought I was the only sane person here. I can't imagine watching someone else play through an entire game so I can complain about it on the internet. The same goes for defending a game I haven't played to its death. Well, I can understand the first two or three people here saying something, but does everyone really have to watch all of it and comment about how they noticed every flaw?

I guess I can understand if you dismissed it beforehand and never really planned on playing through it though (and maybe that's the majority here).

[gr4yJ4Y]

A few weeks ago I read an article in the Wall Street Journal that was about a website that points out flaws in movies. The founder of the site claimed she found over a 100 continuity flaws the first time she watched Pirates of the Carribean (Captain Jack's tan is darker in one scene to the next, the sun is in a different position depending on the angle of the shot in some scenes). It might be ignorant of them, but I think people who didn't nitpick through every detail enjoyed it a lot more.

(Sorry for the double post. Edit time limit, etc.)

[G.Silver]

I blame our community directly in particular because of their ridiculously houndish attitude about the whole thing and the complete and utter disregard for how the marketing and community interaction element for this game were completely and utterly dashed before they ever had a chance to make any kind of significant impact on the way SEGA interacted with its fanbase. This is the first time that they’ve ever reached out to the community like this, and it just goes to show that it was a waste of time if all the “fans” can do is bitch violently about how the company making the game sucks shit while simultaneously shattering all of their hard work, forethought, and planning in an instant

I am confused by what you mean by "reaching out to the community" in this context. You can totally correct me on this, because I don't know what this reaching actually consists of--I assume this is something that was going on behind the scenes with some of the bigger sites, and not just asking fans to draw badniks for a game that was already nearly completed. But what does any of that actually have to do with the leak? Obviously Sonic fans are completely frothing insane about things and Sega had to have known that ahead of time, so they had to know that if something like this was leaked, this is exactly what would have happened, whether they were interacting with their fans or not. It seems to me like ParterNET being set up the way it is is not really a good idea, and just waiting for something like this to happen, there must be a better way to test whatever it's supposed to test without this kind of risk.

It just doesn't seem to me that there is any real connection between fan outreach and this leak, unless it was a fan trusted with information who leaked it, and that doesn't seem to be the case. Things might be screwed up this time, but I don't see how this endangers the long-term potential this might have had.

[Tweaker]

Well, the main issue here is the the leak was done primarily by a member of our forums. Actually, all of the leaks for the game have been from members of our forums. I dunno about you, but solid correlation or otherwise, that paints us a pretty clear reputation as "those guys doing the leaks," regardless of whether or not we actually endorse them. I think if a site has a reputation for leaking SEGA's intellectual property on a consistent basis that SEGA would be less willing to work with them. But that's just my rationale; you may see things differently.

Regarding PartnerNET, you're right--its setup isn't ideal for this kind of situation. Unless Microsoft steps up and does something about how the service is set up--and given the fact that they allegedly shut it down late last night, they very well might be doing just that--the only alternative SEGA has to avoid PartnerNET troubles with a downloadable game is to not release it on the 360 at all, which is definitely not too viable a course of action. The solution to the PartnerNET issue regarding leaks is that the people with access to it are supposed to be bound to non-disclosure agreements; unfortunately, people don't seem too concerned that the entire company they represent can get sued for breaking the NDA. From this point it's just a matter of finding out who this infinity guy is and sicking a legal team on him or something.

[Crisis]

As laughable as the idea of a lockdown on prerelease leaks in a community of 7000 members is, I think Tweaker has the right idea. If he was operating on a forum whose active users barely fell into double digits (like this one), it wouldn't be quite so absurd.

I stopped frequenting forums (other than this one) after the age of 15. I never figured out why until I talked to my computer scientist friend. He informs me that they're a product of the usenet era and, as a communication tool, largely obsolete. Useful information, he explained, is flooded out by everything else as there's no system to keep things efficient (unlike, say, a wiki, where content is constantly under review). Threads get pushed backwards with no reliable way of retrieving them, and this problem is exacerbated when a forum has to split into subforums as a result of high traffic. "Stickying" threads only postpones the issue. Eventually the forum becomes an unmanageable mess as people clamour to get their opinions noticed before they're drowned out in a sea of equally competitive members.

Forums only work, he says, when they have a small, close-knit community of like-minded members - usually less than 20 - across 1 or 2 subforums. I'm not sure I can completely agree (it doesn't explain how forums have remained standard for virtually every online community, for example), but despite having a fraction of the popularity of, say, Sonic Retro, The GHZ is the only forum I can read more than a page of without wanting to vomit.

[Blount]

I can't imagine watching someone else play through an entire game so I can complain about it on the internet. I guess I can understand if you dismissed it beforehand and never really planned on playing through it though (and maybe that's the majority here).

That was pretty much why I ended up watching the videos. I think this is the first time I've intentionally spoiled an as-of-yet unreleased game for me, and I usually stay away from gameplay footage submitted by users. However, I've been skeptical about this game from the start, so watching these videos was a good way of telling if I was just being paranoid. I intended to stop watching as soon as something my interest, but uh... nothing really did. In the end, everything I feared was confirmed (and then some), so I don't regret having watched the videos.

Besides, if the game seemed fun to me, I would still want to get it. I don't mind replaying the old Sonic games time and time again, so it's not the fact that I've seen this one in its entirety that throws me off - it's the fact that it does nothing for me. It's not even the physics either (though those are definitely flawed); it has more to do with the fact that SEGA isn't willing to learn from their mistakes, so instead of trying to do something new and fun, they've decided to cower and take refuge where it feels safe: the original games. Running away from the problem isn't exactly going to get rid of it!

[Opa-Opa]

So, basically, most of you hate this game you never played but you'll end up getting it anyway?

Ok, that's cool.

I think the main reason you guys are watching this videos is that Sega hasn't released proper trailers or gameplay videos, only those bad edited tiny videos with 3 seconds of gameplay. It's kinda like they know people will say it's crap.

I remember when Sonic Adventure was coming out. I'd download every japanese ad that was floating around the internet with game footage. Thing is that those ads only showed how unbelievably awesome the game would be.

Heck, the Sonic Unleashed trailer got me more excited than anything about Sonic 4.

I'm still buying it though. Splash Hill is looking nice enough to me.

I just thought... maybe that mystery platform is the iPad? I thought first it would be the PlaySega website.