All-new 2D Sonic rolling out in 2010

[Isuka]

Haha, this is pretty much what I was expecting. G Sonic/ DKC pap, "2.5D", looking cheap as all hell... for a moment I was worried we were gonna get something worthwile, let alone comparable to what the Genesis or even the Dreamcast games represented from a technical and aesthetic standpoint. Hell, the Advance and Rush titles looked better in motion within just about the same time window. It's all a part of the genre's downward spiral... yeah, just as expected.

As for the whole "being entitled to good games" idiocy (because it is an idiocy, I let off big lols when I read that): I'm as much "entitled" to play good games as I am to having a good meal. The metaphor being that, even though you can go and play another game, it doesn't make the shitty game any less shitty. It's kinda like the whole "gameplay over graphics" phallacy, a sad excuse for sub-par games that, in this case, ride on the back of genre-defining masterpieces (or, at the very least, pretty fucking good games). It's this kind of mediocre mentality that brought us the DS' "brain" "games" and the Wii's "fitness" and "family" "games" and made a fucking joke out of this entertainment medium.

So it's not like I should let the flies pile up over my meal and leave the place with a smile, as if that was the way things are supposed to be. The non-mediocre attitude would be to shout "HEY FUCKERS, I WON'T TOLLERATE THIS SHIT, GB2 PLAYFISH AND ZYNGA AND LEAVE THIS TO THE REAL DEVELOPERS!!", and this goes to those laughably tasteless morons over at Climax Studios, too.

So yeah. lol. Big time.

At least I won't be daydreaming over this only to fall from the rooftop of a 100 story skyscraper face-first and drift some 60 feet over the hard, cold paving, as was the case with 2K6's first footage.

[Dasher]

I think this applies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnWxAHul5aw

[Shadow Hog]

I don't. I think this applies instead. Basically sums up my stance better than I can.

I mean, I'm not expecting it to be stellar or anything, considering we are coming from incredibly shitty games to something potentially playable, but...

[Dasher]

Drinks *cough* Sonic06 *cough* Im not expecting anything anymore, this game is with that name and all messed up to think of that it actually broke down the Sonic cycle for me and everyone I've talked to.

Its like here it is OMG SONIC 4!! no more fantasizing kiddies!, this is last win and fail combined...It hurts my brain, but i feel like since the cycle is broken I'm free to move on...but will I? hmm *drinks

[Crazy Penguin]

phallacy

!

I don't. I think this applies instead. Basically sums up my stance better than I can.

That guy thinks that Sonic Advance is "a bloody brilliant game". Sonic Advance is exactly what I'm concerned Sonic 4 will end up like, a game that doesn't do anything outrageously wrong, but doesn't do anything particularly well either and certainly doesn't do anything new.

[Zeta]

He thinks both Sonic Advance and Mega Man 9 are brilliant. So, yeah.

[P.P.A.]

http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicTheHedgehog4/

So that sound clip was indeed the title theme. Sounds awfully bland. And why do they go with a Mega Drive-like sound of the game itself is such a modern mash anyway?

[Opa-Opa]

I was thinking to myself... that "???" in the console list could be Playsega. I mean, all that's left is PC, I don't think it's gonna come out in the arcades or portables, so they might as well use it to sell their online gaming service.

[Opa-Opa]

By the way. Old news, but I thought it'd be funny to post:

[(No Imagination)]

One can hardly tell from the 2 seconds of gameplay shown, but at a glance this looks like it suffers from the Sonic Advance syndrome of gameplay being too zoomed in for its own pace.

At least they made the pattern look like Green Hill, though. Now waiting for Episode 2: Obligatory Ruins Level.

[Isuka]

phallacy

!

lol, I should've known better when the first Google result for that spelling was an Urban Dictionary article.

I mean, I'm not expecting it to be stellar or anything, considering we are coming from incredibly shitty games to something potentially playable, but...

I originally meant to somewhat slightly appease my post by writing something like "but I do know where Hog is coming from and how unrealistic it is to expect outright excellence from today's Sega and Sonic Team", but I was just too pissed off. And jaded.

In any case, I'm back to square one, until something even remotely promising and/or tasteful catches my interest.

[Shadow Hog]

That guy thinks that Sonic Advance is "a bloody brilliant game". Sonic Advance is exactly what I'm concerned Sonic 4 will end up like, a game that doesn't do anything outrageously wrong, but doesn't do anything particularly well either and certainly doesn't do anything new.

I thought it mimicked the playstyle of the classic games really well, actually. Sure, it lacked a few of the finer details (it didn't have too many hidden paths a la Sonic 3&K, so usually what you saw was what you got), but it was a damn fine game. I enjoyed it enough to 100% complete it, and play it a ton more even after that.

If Sonic 4: Ep1 is just more of that, I'll be satisfied - they can start trying to spruce up what they've got with Episode 2, once I'm convinced they can even pull off Sonic Advance-quality. As of right now, I'm a bit skeptical of even that much, hence my low standards. If you really expected something amazing from this... honestly? Are you that gullible to think Sonic Team'd just pull that out of their ass immediately after Unleashed?

He thinks both Sonic Advance and Mega Man 9 are brilliant. So, yeah.

And honestly, I do too. As I said, Advance wasn't innovative or anything (well, I guess Amy's playstyle is borderline - hadn't seen that done in 2D before), but damn was it fun. Same for Mega Man 9 - felt like a breath of fresh air in a generation full of M-RATED FIRST-PERSON GRITTY REAL-IS-BROWN SPACE MARINE SHOOTAN GAEMS. (Which are fine in moderation, but not when every [good] game on the market is one. Seriously, we were looking at the 360 section at Best Buy just last night, and finding the sort of variety you'd find in the SNES or Genesis library was nigh impossible - everything that wasn't rated T or M was a cash-in title.)

I really don't get the stigmatism against retro releases. The games are still friggin' good. That's all that matters to me.

[Crowbar]

That guy thinks that Sonic Advance is "a bloody brilliant game". Sonic Advance is exactly what I'm concerned Sonic 4 will end up like, a game that doesn't do anything outrageously wrong, but doesn't do anything particularly well either and certainly doesn't do anything new.

I thought it mimicked the playstyle of the classic games really well, actually. Sure, it lacked a few of the finer details (it didn't have too many hidden paths a la Sonic 3&K, so usually what you saw was what you got), but it was a damn fine game. I enjoyed it enough to 100% complete it, and play it a ton more even after that.

I personally thought Advance suffered too much from punishing the player for trying to go fast, throwing in bullshit traps and obstacles just to piss him off. Much worse than I felt Rush ever did. (I personally thought Rush and SRA were good, though I guess I understand some of people's distaste for them)

[Shadow Hog]

Advance 2 and 3, sure, but I don't recall it being much of an issue in the first one. It was slower-paced than the other two as it was anyway, more emphasis on platforming.

[(No Imagination)]

Sounds kind of dumb, but Advance 3 is my favorite of the trio. The first Sonic Advance was pretty fun all the way up to Egg Rocket, where by the end of first act the obstacle placement got really, really horrendous and made me turn my GBA off in disgust. (And I'm the kind of guy who grew up with Sonic 2 for the Game Gear.) Advance 3 may have had horrifying design choices (Toy Kingdom? ...really..?), but at least its enemy placement got a little less cheap and the boss music was Sonicy.

...while Advance 2 just did everything so wrong, it was scary.

My biggest issue with these games is a complete lack of camera work - I recall Sonic 1 and 3K "adjusting" the camera when the games felt like you could use a steadier screen view for critical situations. Sonic Advances only do that when you already finish the level or fight a boss, which is pointless.

As for the whole "being entitled to good games" idiocy (because it is an idiocy, I let off big lols when I read that): I'm as much "entitled" to play good games as I am to having a good meal. The metaphor being that, even though you can go and play another game, it doesn't make the shitty game any less shitty. It's kinda like the whole "gameplay over graphics" phallacy, a sad trendy excuse for sub-par games that, in this case, ride on the back of genre-defining masterpieces (or, at the very least, pretty fucking good games). It's this kind of mediocre mentality that brought us the DS' "brain" "games" and the Wii's "fitness" and "family" "games" and made a fucking joke out of this entertainment medium.

Quoting for the heck of it, because this is a cool paragraph.

[j-man]

Having slept on it, I feel a bit foolish for getting as excited as I did. I think I'm just pleased to see a new 2D Sonic game on a home console. It's just been so long, man. I keep saying "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" out loud to myself and giggling dreamily. I guess I'm their target audience.

[Crazy Penguin]

That guy thinks that Sonic Advance is "a bloody brilliant game". Sonic Advance is exactly what I'm concerned Sonic 4 will end up like, a game that doesn't do anything outrageously wrong, but doesn't do anything particularly well either and certainly doesn't do anything new.

I thought it mimicked the playstyle of the classic games really well, actually. Sure, it lacked a few of the finer details (it didn't have too many hidden paths a la Sonic 3&K, so usually what you saw was what you got), but it was a damn fine game. I enjoyed it enough to 100% complete it, and play it a ton more even after that.

Its first level, Neo Green Hill Zone, was decent. You could tell that genuine effort was put into that, check out the transition from beach to tropical paradise to forest to steel bridge. That was some Sonic 3/Sonic Adventure 1 style thinking right there (my spider sense started tingling when the second Zone didn't start off on the bridge). All of Neo Green Hill Zone's obstacles, features and enemies were re-used. Any new obstacles or enemies you encountered ended up being re-used in a later Zone as well. It was all the same thing with a new lick of paint each time. Only Egg Rocket really attempted something different, with its vertical structure.

So it was just the same Zone repeated 7 times with a new lick of paint, and they weren't even good licks of paint. Every Zone theme was a bland re-interpretation of a series cliche. Tropical paradise, mechnical base, carnival (called a casino), ice/water, ancient sky ruins and space ship. It's fine to re-use themes from the previous games as long as something new is done with them and there are some original themes in there too. Advance 2 and 3 half-heartedly tried with the likes of Music Plant and Toy Kingdom, but they didn't work because they didn't seem like "places" that could exist in Sonic's world, they weren't grounded in the reality that had been established. It wasn't until Sonic Rush Adventure that DIMPS finally started getting it right with the haunted ship, the pirate's island, the stage where all the enemies are robotic dinosaurs and the finale happening underground instead of outer space.

The inclusion of Tails, Knuckles and Amy added absolutely nothing of value to the game. Tails was useful for finding the Special Stage springs but that was about it, and the Special Stages had awkward depth perception problems anyway.

[Ngangbius]

First impressions based on the teaser:

--This setting as everyone already mentioned, unfortunately reminds me of Sonic Blast and DKC. Ick.

--Sonic's running animation looks pretty bad. It's hilarious how the Sonic 2 beta sprite at the beginning of the trailer shows him to be a speedy creatures and into the transition into the Sonic 4 model, he slows into some skip. It would be nice if hey would change it to give him the illusion he is actually going fast instead of just strolling in the park.

--Ah ha ha ha ha they are using the modern design even though this was supposedly "a return to his roots for reals". Sega was even giving away wall scrolls that feature "classic Sonic" in a contest on their blog. I know plenty of people were pretty pissed when that happened. I guess that's the final nail on the coffin on ever seeing that design in a game ever again. Hope you are willing to settle spending a lot of money on classic Sonic the Hedgehog merchandise, Dasher. Oh, Sega, you trolls!

Overall...eh. I'm still not hyped up for this game. Sonic Team(assuming that they are making it instead of being outsourced to the dreadful Backbone) have yet to make a game that is good(not average or worse) and one that isn't marred by some awful gimmick. It would be nice to see most in this game is momentum-based platforming/pinball physics, great controls, and excellent level design. Ideally, I would have wanted a better sense of art direction in addition to that. But..eh...

Guess I'm in the mostly apathetic camp seeing this trailer didn't do anything for me, and Iizuka is presumably, heavily involved in this title.

[Kogen]

Sonic and Tails fly down and come across mysterious island called Angel Island. This island is floating by the power of the precious stone called Master Emerald, but now this mysterious island are dropping down to the ocean surface because the Death Egg had been falling on this island. Sonic and Tails are attacked by a Red Echidna named Knuckles the guardian of the island.

Good story.

[Crazy Penguin]

Eggman's Mecha fly's away badly damaged.

They also didn't seem to realise that Knuckles' part in S3&K occurs after Sonic's story.

[Dasher]

Hope you are willing to settle spending a lot of money on classic Sonic the Hedgehog merchandise, Dasher.

I would gladly waste my money on classic merchandise than on Sonic 4. :) still I'm confused on what you mean by that.

PS. I cant believe that's the title screen Music, Ive heard better in fan games, I mean really.

[M.C.Dillinger]

am I the only one who views Sonic 4 one as Sega giving up? Not just Sega but the fans as well?

They given up on the idea of the series making progress or evolving for at least the past five years. Everyone, it seems, wants sonic to be just like Mario and their only justification for it is that anything "not like Mario" was not done well. They demand that Sonic & Co. don't speak, because Sega never cast a good actors. They demanded there be no or limited story, because the recent scripts have too many problems for me to list right now. They demand that sonic be just like Mario, because Mario's games are still good (mostly).

But sonic and Mario are two very different characters.
I am sure I don't need to explain how on this form, sonic the hedgehog was designed deliberately to be the "anti-Mario". But what we are getting and in some cases celebrating is likely to be Sega's imitation of new super Mario Brothers. In a way this is as far from "returning to the series roots" as Sega can get.

[FlashTHD]

am I the only one who views Sonic 4 one as Sega giving up? Not just Sega but the fans as well?

They given up on the idea of the series making progress or evolving for at least the past five years. Everyone, it seems, wants sonic to be just like Mario and their only justification for it is that anything "not like Mario" was not done well. They demand that Sonic & Co. don't speak, because Sega never cast a good actors. They demanded there be no or limited story, because the recent scripts have too many problems for me to list right now. They demand that sonic be just like Mario, because Mario's games are still good (mostly).

But sonic and Mario are two very different characters.
I am sure I don't need to explain how on this form, sonic the hedgehog was designed deliberately to be the "anti-Mario". But what we are getting and in some cases celebrating is likely to be Sega's imitation of new super Mario Brothers. In a way this is as far from "returning to the series roots" as Sega can get.

The fans/persons I think you're referring to aren't "giving up" as much as being woefully immature.

Like I said, MM9 and NSMB have made obscene amounts of money for their publishers. Somebody in Sega upper management did the math.

[Yami CJMErl]

I really don't get the stigmatism against retro releases. The games are still friggin' good. That's all that matters to me.

This guy, he gets it.

[Soltekker]

I really don't get the stigmatism against retro releases. The games are still friggin' good. That's all that matters to me.

Because fans would rather the company spent time and money on good games with modern features than retro-styled games?

I'm not opposed to them myself, but I always saw that as a valid reason :)