Sonic and the Quest for Phallic Compensation

[Spike]

I don't really care what anyone else thinks about the game. I enjoyed the game and still play it occasionally. It's not perfect, but it isn't the biggest pile of shit everyone here seems to make it out to be. If it's keeping me entertained, it's doing it's job. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose...

[Crazy Penguin]

In my day there were three buttons and they were all jump and we were happy with it.

[j-man]

Hear, hear.

[DackAttac]

The controls were about 50% gone, but the Sonic Charm was there in ways I hadn't seen in a long time. The controls were workable if you were willing to put up with some glaring flaws, which I admit is a pain in the ass, but I felt the reward was worth it to say the game was a cut above mediocre. I couldn't blame anyone who didn't like it. Not by a long shot. Individual milage varies incredibly. But I enjoyed the fuck out of it, and if you couldn't share that joy, shame.

But if they've changed the controls for this time (seeing as how the waggle control has been designated to sword-wielding, I'd say we're about to get our jump button back), I can't honestly say I think it'll be an unplayable turd. It's a far cry from pre-ordering the thing before I see what the scores are, but I'm interested how this pans out. No need to be a dick.

[Baba O'Riley]

Dunno. It'd probably be a run of the mill action game if it were anyone other than Sonic, so really, the issue probably lay more with Sonic Team for shamelessly prostituting Sonic into these ridiculous situations and riding on his frayed laurels instead of trying to start new franchises for their ridiculous ideas.

[gr4yJ4Y]

It's like, more than half the time I'm not sure how I'm even supposed to be holding the damn controller. When it goes side-on? What the fuck is that?

The constant running forward coupled with the Wiimote controls do ruin the game. [...] And a part of me really cries whenever I see Sonic constantly running into an immovable or painful object without me doing anything; like a retarded fly continuously bumping into a glass window because it's too stupid to realise that you can't fly through it.

I gave up on Secret Rings after about an hour of trying to figure out how to jump or do a homing attack properly.

Maybe you guys just suck at games? I guess if you tried to play this like a regular Sonic, you'd get about the same result as if you tried to play Sonic Adventure like Sonic 3 & Knuckles (e.g. holding right instead of holding up to move toward your goal). It's a different game and you had to adapt to that aspect. I didn't have too much trouble with the controls (though they could be much better) once I got used to them. Besides, figuring out how to do everything was part of the fun.

Dunno. It'd probably be a run of the mill action game if it were anyone other than Sonic, so really, the issue probably lay more with Sonic Team for shamelessly prostituting Sonic into these ridiculous situations and riding on his frayed laurels instead of trying to start new franchises for their ridiculous ideas.

I don't know if you're talking about Black Knight, Secret Rings, or both games at once...

[Spike]

It's like, more than half the time I'm not sure how I'm even supposed to be holding the damn controller. When it goes side-on? What the fuck is that?

The constant running forward coupled with the Wiimote controls do ruin the game. [...] And a part of me really cries whenever I see Sonic constantly running into an immovable or painful object without me doing anything; like a retarded fly continuously bumping into a glass window because it's too stupid to realise that you can't fly through it.

I gave up on Secret Rings after about an hour of trying to figure out how to jump or do a homing attack properly.

Maybe you guys just suck at games? I guess if you tried to play this like a regular Sonic, you'd get about the same result as if you tried to play Sonic Adventure like Sonic 3 & Knuckles (e.g. holding right instead of holding up to move toward your goal). It's a different game and you had to adapt to that aspect. I didn't have too much trouble with the controls (though they could be much better) once I got used to them. Besides, figuring out how to do everything was part of the fun.

Dunno. It'd probably be a run of the mill action game if it were anyone other than Sonic, so really, the issue probably lay more with Sonic Team for shamelessly prostituting Sonic into these ridiculous situations and riding on his frayed laurels instead of trying to start new franchises for their ridiculous ideas.

I don't know if you're talking about Black Knight, Secret Rings, or both games at once...

As much as I appreciate you backing up the game, let's not try to start a flame war over this. If they don't like the game, that's fine. If they say the controls aren't for them, fine. People just have different opinions and we should just respect that. This goes for the other side as well.

[Baba O'Riley]

Dunno. It'd probably be a run of the mill action game if it were anyone other than Sonic, so really, the issue probably lay more with Sonic Team for shamelessly prostituting Sonic into these ridiculous situations and riding on his frayed laurels instead of trying to start new franchises for their ridiculous ideas.

I don't know if you're talking about Black Knight, Secret Rings, or both games at once...

And that's the problem.

[Neo]

As much as I appreciate you backing up the game, let's not try to start a flame war over this. If they don't like the game, that's fine. If they say the controls aren't for them, fine. People just have different opinions and we should just respect that. This goes for the other side as well.

Dude. Grow a fucking pair.

I liked Secret Rings, and I think the people who say they turned the game off immediately are kinda dumb and the people who say they didn't have any fun with it are kinda sad. True, the game did have its shortcomings (climbing the spikeball-infested insides of those towers in Levitated Ruin was not fun), but it was an amusing experience all around. You just have to spend more than 15 minutes with it to grasp the controls, after which, much like Rush and Riders, it becomes a really fun game.

[Frieza2000]

Actually, what do I know? I'm just a noob =|

I'm naked, and your self-deprication is totally killing my boner. Grow a pair, and stop knocking yourself.

As much as I appreciate you backing up the game, let's not try to start a flame war over this. If they don't like the game, that's fine. If they say the controls aren't for them, fine. People just have different opinions and we should just respect that. This goes for the other side as well.

Dude. Grow a fucking pair.

And the cycle of initiation continues.

[Ngangbius]

I liked Secret Rings, and I think the people who say they turned the game off immediately are kinda dumb and the people who say they didn't have any fun with it are kinda sad.

This statement sort of makes the game sounds like a "must own game that is essential to everyone's collection". I disagree as this seems to be more of a love or hate game with very little middleground among the people who've played it.

I don't really care for it. I spent a hour or so with that game, getting a feel for the odd controls until I got to one of those "don't touch any of the pots" missions. After almost completing that mission(just hitting a pot short of the goal) for the upteeth time, I just lost any motivation to continue with the game--especially if those types of missions were common.

[P.P.A.]

Oh, you'll just love the "have no rings at the end" mission of Pirate Storm.

[Zeta]

Ugh. That was the worst thing ever.

[Spike]

Oh, you'll just love the "have no rings at the end" mission of Pirate Storm.

God, I hated that mission, but it was optional, though.

[Shadow Hog]

The missions would actually be pretty fun if the control scheme actually worked. Tilting just doesn't have the same kind of finesse that an analog stick or D-pad have. So, while the controls were decent enough for just running through a stage, for actually tackling any challenges which require delicate movements in tight areas, the whole thing's ass.

Also, the jumping was absolute garbage, the lack of control over your forward momentum (short of completely stopping) made things harder than it should have been, and the inability to backtrack was a joke. The only things the controls are good for are for unobstructed forward running and the homing attack (which genuinely worked, and I hope they add that crosshair in later titles).

I made it to that final stage, but never bothered to play it. I probably should.

[P.P.A.]

Oh, you'll just love the "have no rings at the end" mission of Pirate Storm.

God, I hated that mission, but it was optional, though.

What.
Someone should have told me that earlier.

[Rob-Bert]

I liked Secret Rings, and I think the people who say they turned the game off immediately are kinda dumb and the people who say they didn't have any fun with it are kinda sad. True, the game did have its shortcomings (climbing the spikeball-infested insides of those towers in Levitated Ruin was not fun), but it was an amusing experience all around. You just have to spend more than 15 minutes with it to grasp the controls, after which, much like Rush and Riders, it becomes a really fun game.

The problem is that Sonic games used to be known for not having to get used to the controls or what-have-you. They were always more of the simple pick-up and play types. I'm not saying a game that isn't that simple is bad, but when a series starts to lose what it's been known for for so long (and this isn't the only thing), people start to grow a tad disappointed/pissed.

[gr4yJ4Y]

I made it to that final stage, but never bothered to play it. I probably should.

This is where I'd expect P.P.A. to mention how nice Night Palace looks.

[P.P.A.]

I was tempted to actually, but since I already mentioned it a couple of times already I didn't want to repeat myself.
...
What the fuck is wrong with me?!

[Isuka]

Thing is, roughly put, that in a 2D platformer you are supposed to hold a particular direction on the x axis to get moving towards each stage's goal or to backtrack. In a 3D platformer with a good control setup you are supposed to hold the "up" direction to get moving away from the screen and have some visibility of what you are supposed to head to and do to get there, and use the "down" direction to realign yourself (and, hopefully, the camera) so to backtrack. In a racing game you mostly hold the accelerate button to get moving while following a set course and evading obstacles and competitors, but any other set of rules that keep the "moving forward on a set course and finish in first place" basic formula also work, although you'll have to learn it to get the most out of it, in the same way that you have to learn the entire system of every new platformer or any other genre for that matter.
Here, you have to constantly escape death with a half-broken, half-retarded control setup that was a pretty poor first attempt at a motion-controlled on-rails platformer. No matter how good you get at it, it's still balls. And I kept playing it for four or so stages, about one and a half hour, trying out each and every mission to my disposal.

[Neo]

And the cycle of initiation continues.

I was expecting somebody to make that connection. I had recently been looking at my first posts in this forum for whatever reason, and until then I honestly didn't recall those events. I guess I'm sort of a pansy whenever I join a new community.

This statement sort of makes the game sounds like a "must own game that is essential to everyone's collection".

That really wasn't what I intended to convey. The game is flawed in many aspects, but I also have a lot of fun with it, so I think it's a shame people shut it right off and never give it a chance to be the best it can.

I guess I've just gotten used to mediocre Sonic titles.

The problem is that Sonic games used to be known for not having to get used to the controls or what-have-you. They were always more of the simple pick-up and play types.

True, but do you really believe that it's ever going to return to the way it was?

I've honestly just "given up" (or a less stupid-sounding equivalent) on Sega and no longer buy Sonic titles compulsively. The series is never going to fix itself and I'm tired of the neverending rollercoaster of "it's gonna rock/blow". Good thing I stopped before I bought a PS3 just for Nextgen!

Now and then if a Sonic game looks fun and piques my interest (AND I have the platform it's on already), I'll get it. At most, I'll come out indifferent, but more likely somewhat amused. Might not be the best deal ever, but the best deal ever officially ended seven years ago.

[DackAttac]

And the cycle of initiation continues.

I was expecting somebody to make that connection. I had recently been looking at my first posts in this forum for whatever reason, and until then I honestly didn't recall those events. I guess I'm sort of a pansy whenever I join a new community.

From what I remember from lurking, this is quite the intimidating crowd.

I disagree as this seems to be more of a love or hate game with very little middleground among the people who've played it.

Love? Love is kind of strong a word, and it makes it sound like us people who enjoyed it are oblivious to the faults. There are some glaring faults, but this was coming on the tail of S06, which is the first time I saw the word "unplayable" get pulled out in professional reviews. I was dubious that we'd ever see a "playable" Sonic game again. That followed Shadow, which followed Heroes. I might only give Secret Rings three stars out of five, but that's what I consider SA2. (I'd have a hard time awarding more than two stars to any of the games in that list.) Difference is, SA2 kind of averaged out to that score from some orgasmic highs and some hair-pulling lows. SSR was rough getting started, but decent once adjusted to. And I personally think there's a four star game in there that a better control scheme could have unearthed. There isn't a "goddammit" moment in that game that I blamed on the level design or unfairly placed enemies. Controls shoulder all of the blame.

I know I pulled out the dreaded "X stars out of Y" wordplay, but the first five words of the "I acknowledge it's not perfect but I still enjoyed it" school of thought don't seem to be hitting home.

I'd like to use the phrase "for fans", but that's been ruined by reviewers who just say it to cover their ass on a controversial critique and try to avert truckloads of hate mail. So it gets used on pretty much every Sonic game because it's what "fans" of "Sonic" want... moments for them to see how "edgy" their favorite character is, a Crush 40 song with a chorus they can quote in their AIM profile, scenes they can analyze for what they misconstrue as sexual tension to fuel their slash ficiton. If you're a "fan" of Sonic for the action, because platform games are a dying breed and there's a distinct style and charm you (ideally) get in a Sonic platformer, grading on those standards, this game is far more satisfactory than anything since SA2.

There were many times I wondered if I was just tinting my glasses rose, so I went back and replayed it to finish all the missions. Nope. Still had a considerable deal of fun. (I even tried to get gold medals before I realized that you need to level up further and make Sonic go even faster, and I just felt that was leaning into the thorny controls a little too heavily.)

This isn't a game I wanted to go to bat for, since, like I said, there are flaws, they're front and center, and I can't blame anyone who didn't like it. But since this whole thing arose out of a "You don't have the right to say bad/good things about Black Knight!" back-and-forth, I hardly felt SSR was bad enough to merit declaring anything remotely related to it to be unavoidably awful, especially when they're redesigning the most heavily-flawed aspect.

[Baba O'Riley]

Don't just limit it to Crush 40.

Eiko Shimamiya is the author of one of my favorite cringe-worthy SA songs: A Ghost's Pumpkin Soup.

Pumpkins in alleys, you see.

[gr4yJ4Y]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42254.html

I'm not sure if this has been pointed out yet. It shows Jun and Johnny playing the game's theme song.

I wonder if it will be included as an unlockable extra in the game, judging by the boarders.

[WW]

I've not seen it, but apparently in the newest GamePro they had a new preview for Sonic & the Black Knight, they were able to play a demo of the first level. Apparently they loved what they played a whole lot and said some of the following:

-Use sword while running, which makes it feel like you're playing a Sonic game with a sword, not a sword game with Sonic.
-The level they played had villangers you could talk to and save, which makes the game's stages feel like levels and adventure fields all in one, which they say is an awesome approach and they love how the levels are real open-ended.
-They like the part Sonic uses his sword to go down the wall, and demand SEGA do this on a curtain in the game.
-New screenshots.

That's about it, but there are no scans yet.