The GHZ Forum

Wasn't the interview posted on the previous page with the Wii team director? At least that's what it felt like, with all the Wii screens and the insight on the Wii version's features. Plus, it's on Nintendo Power, it wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't, or would it?

Dasher wrote:Sonic was never about super speed, it was about platforming in action packed levels.

The speed was just a bonus! not the main focus!

It was totally the main focus. Even from the very first ad for Sonic 1 in the US, the tagline was "Think fast." The game had a lot more to it than just speed, but it was definitely the biggest selling point. The speed and the momentum-based physics are what set Sonic apart from the scores of Mario clones.

It was the main advertising focus, there is a difference.

Yeah, the character was about speed, but the gameplay was physics-based, which is where everyone's going wrong. It's like Mario is about jumping on turtles, but the guy is a plumber. Is he? I've never seen him plumb. I guess plumbing is what Mario is all about though, right? Let's add some replay value with a selection of unlockable wrenches and time attack "Fix the Drip" stages. Sounds extreeeeeme.

If you guys are seriously going to try and convince me that Sonic's speed was just an advertising gimmick, I'm... I don't even know what I'm going to do, because that's just so... I can't even think of a word for it.

I suppose it's been 17 years of brainwashing then? Brilliant.

I never said it wasn't an integral part of the gameplay. What I am trying to say is that as the main advertising focus of the series, speed then became the single component which everyone thinks makes the games as good as they are, and this is not the whole picture.

What we're trying to say is that speed may have been a major part of the games, but it wasn't the ONLY part of the games, which is what popular culture and SEGA seem to think these days.

It was, however, a major selling point. It's what everybody remembers about the franchise the most. I will be the first person to admit there was more to Sonic than just running fast, but to most people, from day one, that's what the game was defined as.

Speed. Attitude. And more layers of parallax than anybody had ever seen the NES do.

You could help your case, Blaze, if you tried a bit harder to not sound like you're defending the press' shortsighted shit.

I guess. But, I mean, I did say Sonic's speed and physics system was what made him unique, and the physics system - the momentum - was a method for building speed. Most people don't understand the how, they just remember the result: blitzing through Green Hill or Chemical Plant or Mushroom Hill at 200mph because Sonic flew downhill or through a set of loops.

To a lot of people, everything else is superfluous. This is the GHZ, here. Most of us (including to some extent, myself) are picky bastards with almost never-ending encyclopedic knowledge of this franchise. Yes - Sonic was more than speed. There was exploration and secrets and alternate routes and platforming.

But speed was over 75% of the game. Nobody should try and downplay the importance of Sonic moving at a brisk pace - which is what it sounded like certain people in the thread were doing - or we'll just end up with another Sonic 3D Blast - or worse, Sonic Labyrinth.

Yes, Sonic needs to slow down more in the newer games - especially Sonic Unleashed, judging by the Europe trailer - but I'm all for playing fun game regardless of whether or not it perfectly replicates the game design philosophies of Sonic the Hedgehog 2.

Whether Unleashed is fun remains to be seen. The constant string of boost pads seen in the video has me continually more worried the more I think about it.

Sometimes I wonder if SEGA has always been trying to make Sonic as fast as possible right from the very beginning, and the only thing that kept the franchise from becoming too speed-dominated was hardware limitations.

I don't mind the focus on speed when it's done well. The Sonic Rush games are great examples of that. There are alternate routes and secrets and everything. It's much more streamlined and barebones level design than the first four Sonic games, but it's still damn fun. The problem is being able to carry that formula to 3D since you require a greater degree of control, even on rails. Secret Rings came really close, but the level up system (which I liked) was understandably frustrating to anyone not willing to put the time into it. Then again, you'd die a million times in that gain if you started playing at the start with Sonic's max speed.

I'm still more worried about the werewolf than anything else about this game. In-depth combat just doesn't fit well in the Sonic game series aside from boss battles. I sincerely hope the new transformation WILL soley be used on boss battles, in which case it's kind of a cool idea because the boss battles in Secret Rings weren't really all that great.

That's true enough. I loved Sonic Rush Adventure, it's one of my favourite games in the entire series. And I think Sonic and the Secret Rings COULD have been a fun title, if they had worked out the kinks in the controls and leveling system and replaced all the dorky side missions with more proper stages.

But ultimately, whether or not these games were successful in their own right, they are definitely their own entities, completely distinct from the classics. And man, I don't know about you, but I'm not feeling especially impatient about getting another Rush-esque title, because I just got an excellent one for the DS last year. A good traditional Sonic title, on the other hand... I've been waiting for a new one of those for 15 years. That is the void that needs fillin'!

Esrever wrote:Sometimes I wonder if SEGA has always been trying to make Sonic as fast as possible right from the very beginning, and the only thing that kept the franchise from becoming too speed-dominated was hardware limitations.

Sonic was and always has been a product of the times, I think. Back then, everybody loved platformers. Huge, epic 2D platformers with massive levels. I think Sonic 1 was the first game I can remember where there was actually more than one pathway to the goal. I mean, yeah, Mario 3 had detours and a couple of secret exits, but Sonic was on a scope and scale that was totally new to me at the time.

Nobody really likes 3D platformers anymore. Even by the time Sonic Adventure 1 hit the shelves, people were tired of them.

Then again, I don't know if it's possible to say that - it might just be a product of Sonicteam dividing the characters up in to "classes". Each class has a certain type of class-specific gameplay. Like Tails is heavy on platforming, Knuckles is heavy on exploration and punching, Shadow is heavy on enemy numbers, etc. Sonic is a speed-class character, and so his gameplay focuses way more on speed rather than a balance of gameplay elements - something the Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure do not do - they aren't afraid to incorporate platforming elements, because all you have is Sonic and Blaze, and they both play similarly.

Zeta wrote:I'm still more worried about the werewolf than anything else about this game. In-depth combat just doesn't fit well in the Sonic game series aside from boss battles.

Nintendo described it as focused on obstacle manipulation. That could involve platforming. It would be prudent of Sega to give the speed freaks what they want while still having something resembling traditional levels. Except that they felt the need to change him into a werewolf to do it instead of, say, using Knuckles.

Did we ever confirm that Wolf Sonic is part of the gameplay? For all we know, he could only appear in cutscenes.

Oh, who am I kidding?

Can't edit my post for some reason, so,

Unleashed will have level up system, in which you can enhance and improve Sonic’s abilities, much like an RPG.

There will be other playable characters besides Sonic, however they will only be playable via mini games, reserving most of the game for Sonic. Tails has been the only confirmed character as of yet. There where no details regarding how the mini games would play.

In addition to the African, Greek, and “High Europe” stages, there will also be levels that take place in China and New York City.

Levels alternate between the 3D and 2D perspectives every thirty seconds or so. Camera work is impressive.

Good impressions overall. They only complain about the frame rate.

Source

Nintendo described it as focused on obstacle manipulation. That could involve platforming. It would be prudent of Sega to give the speed freaks what they want while still having something resembling traditional levels. Except that they felt the need to change him into a werewolf to do it instead of, say, using Knuckles.

See, Obstacle manipulation makes me think of flinging things around like the Incredible Hulk.

Unleashed will have level up system, in which you can enhance and improve Sonic’s abilities, much like an RPG.

There will be other playable characters besides Sonic, however they will only be playable via mini games, reserving most of the game for Sonic. Tails has been the only confirmed character as of yet. There where no details regarding how the mini games would play.

In addition to the African, Greek, and “High Europe” stages, there will also be levels that take place in China and New York City.

Levels alternate between the 3D and 2D perspectives every thirty seconds or so. Camera work is impressive.

Good impressions overall. They only complain about the frame rate.

I really like the real-world theme to this game and the announcement that Sonic will be solo - though I certainly would not have minded Tails or even Blaze (it is based on her debut games) considering the style of this game.

Oh yes. I read in a German magazine (Man!ac) a few days ago about that China stage. It's set on the Great Wall, and features some lighting effects like Sonic turning red in shade when running below those red parasols iirc.

Zeta wrote:
I really like the real-world theme to this game and the announcement that Sonic will be solo - though I certainly would not have minded Tails or even Blaze (it is based on her debut games) considering the style of this game.

I hear ya. But the problem is that everyone feels that way about a different character. And before you know it, 7 playable characters. So for now, only Sonic is a good way to go.

It's odd to say, but this game sounds pretty fixable, however it turns out. Were-Sonic segments crappy? Get rid of them. Behind-the-back segments no fun? Get rid of them. Etc.

I'd like to see the New York-style level.

Radrappy wrote:But the problem is that everyone feels that way about a different character. And before you know it, 7 playable characters. So for now, only Sonic is a good way to go.

I'd still really like to see a game with SA1-style Tails levels. I think I'm one of the few though IIRC from the last time I mentioned that here.

I wouldn't mind 7 optional playable characters. In S3&K, you could get a good ending for any of the three characters without playing as the other two, and you'd do fine.

And I'm going to bet the New York-style level will be a highway stage.

But New York doesn't HAVE highways. It should be a subway stage that dips in and out of the ground.

gr4yJ4Y wrote:

Radrappy wrote:But the problem is that everyone feels that way about a different character. And before you know it, 7 playable characters. So for now, only Sonic is a good way to go.

I'd still really like to see a game with SA1-style Tails levels. I think I'm one of the few though IIRC from the last time I mentioned that here.

I personally would like Tails to have levels that play exactly like Sonic's, only with no racing involved.