Sonic Unleashed?

[Wombatwarlord777]

FlashTHD wrote:

(with the exception of finding those two damn echidna keys to unlock Knuckles's Lost World)

I had no trouble with that. The little nook where you find the other one is right on the quickest route to the temple...tough to miss, really.

Must of missed it the first time. I remember scouring the jungle area for about half-an-hour, and then getting out of the jungle area and searching every other Adventure Field, thinking that it must be there. I eventually found it, though. It's the only time I remember seriously disliking the Adventure Fields.

[Kogen]

Those numbers kind of seem dubious though. M&S didn't reach 11 million yet and I doubt that Sonic Heroes sold that much.

That said it does seem like the games are not as big money makers than there were several years ago(cross-overs are the exception). I don't remember Sonic 2K6 and Sonic Unleashed lighting up the charts(at least in the U.S.) and if they did it possibly it was because it was discounted to a budget price.

I remember the producer or director of Sonic Unleashed saying that they wanted to make an Ultimate Sonic game instead of a Classic one. That statement ticked me off because their idea of an "ultimate sonic game" consists of unwanted gimmicks, pointless collect-a-thons, unnecessary hub worlds, awful mechanics, and consorting a FAQ on where to go next. In other words, just make it a bloated mess as they can.

I rounded the numbers, it might be like 10.94 million, if that matters! But you have to remember this is a Sonic, Mario, and Olympic title that sells great in both North America and Europe (mostly UK). It has not left the top 10 charts since release. It is also on Wii and DS. So yes, it is about 11 million.

Not sure what to say here. Sonic Heroes sold great. Mostly on PS2, a large amount on GC, then a smaller amount on XBox. So uh, yeah.

Sonic 06 sold a million on 360 and around 500 000 - 700 000 on PS3; that seems decent to me, I guess? A lot of sales came from the new 19.99 MSRP and bundles.

Unleashed is already over 2 million, it is selling great (mostly on Wii, then 360, PS3, PS2). So this is a success. This game does not have a budget price like 06, it is at 40 on PS2 and 50/60 on the others (depends on region).

I think you really under estimate how good Sonic games sell. Stuff like Rush and Sonic Adventure 2 did like 2.5 million, too. Riders even did a million. Barely any Sonic games fail - most make huge profits.

And yeah, that guy is a fag.


For Tails art, I thought the best was made after the Genesis games. I really liked how he had Tails designed for the Drift games and Sonic Jam. Also in the newer art, Tails' head is bigger now.

For example, this is what they have on Sonic Channel:



Still looks a bit wonky, though. Was way better like this:



Or this:


Much better/cuter than the new designs. I just do not get how this art could be by the same person.


I was going to reply to Flash properly, but he seems pissy and I am tired of writing. The producer did an interview mentioning the Advance remakes instead of the Genesis ones. I honestly cannot remember where and I do not care or have any will to go find it just for you.

[Kogen]

So after I posted, I went to go find the interview, here it is:

http://kotaku.com/5062101/on-the-possib ... onic-games

It is not as bad as I remember, he does mention the possibility of a new 16-bit title. However, he said the Advance games are a possibility getting remade, so it seems he puts his focus on them over the 16-bit game regardless. 16-bit ones just seem like an 'idea' rather than something actively being looked at during the time of the interview.

[Baba O'Riley]

I actually like Tails' design in SA. I think the death of his personality in subsequent games harmed the character, as did the removal of, you know, his ability to move freely.

[Zeta]

But letting Tails move freely would require the invention of levels more oriented towards exploration instead of just linear racetracks suspsended over bottomless pits or in the middle of claustrophobic walls. : ( And that would take more than a year to design and program! SEGA can't be bothered with such worthless details when the annual Sonic game needs to come out so they can make crack money for the next 12 months again!

[Locit]

But letting Tails move freely would require the invention of levels more oriented towards exploration instead of just linear racetracks suspsended over bottomless pits or in the middle of claustrophobic walls.

No it wouldn't. That is to say, no it didn't. Sonic Adventure's Tails levels were extremely linear, even more than Sonic's- they were really just re-purposings of the former's. I also feel confident in asserting that they took less than a year to develop.

[Ngangbius]

Kogen, it sounds like you are getting your numbers from VGChartz which is known to be a very unnreliable site.

Unleashed is already over 2 million, it is selling great (mostly on Wii, then 360, PS3, PS2). So this is a success. This game does not have a budget price like 06, it is at 40 on PS2 and 50/60 on the others (depends on region).

Yep, that's VGChartz "numbers" alright. And by "numbers" I mean made up BS.

M&S Olympics long legs came from Europe not so much the U.S. and Unleashed barely made the charts in the U.S.(It was absent in the top twenty for both Nov. and Dec.) The only evidence where it did chart in the U.S. Is the top 10 Selling PS2 games in Dec.

PS2 GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
PS2 MADDEN NFL 09 ELECTRONIC ARTS
PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS RE: CHAIN OF MEMORIES SQUARE ENIX INC
PS2 WWE SMACKDOWN VS. RAW 2009 THQ
PS2 ROCK BAND* MTV GAMES/ELECTRONIC ARTS
PS2 ACTION/ADVENTURE BUNDLE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTURER
PS2 SONIC UNLEASHED SEGA OF AMERICA
PS2 LEGO BATMAN WARNER INTERACTIVE
PS2 CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR FINAL FRONTS ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
PS2 GUITAR HERO AEROSMITH* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD

http://blog.wired.com/games/2009/01/top ... es-of.html
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... count=2636

Seeing that it more or less faultering on the PS2, I highly doubt it was a 2 million seller. Barely one million is possible, but that still is pretty low compared to previous Sonic games. And I've read that the game has been discounted in certain European countries during the first month since it was selling poorly back then, but I'm not sure that it was a weekly sale or a permenant thing.

And about Tails, I agree that he's a really boring character now and in addition, his muzzle is too short. I remember some folks complaining about the Night of the Werehog short in that Chip's role could have been easily used for Tails. Had the purpose of the short was something other than promoting the game, I would have to 100% agree with them. I do have a problem with some of these newer characters Sonic Team creates that seem to borrow elements from their older characters before they became Flanderized. It's it as if they are trying to create the largest cast of the most shallow and unendearing characters outside of B-grade JRPG.

[P.P.A.]

I see so many people here complaining about Tails not being able to fly or be played as any more. You know, you could (or rather were forced to) play as him in quite a lot of S06's Sonic stages. Not to mentiom he got three levels for himself in the team attack amigo DLC thing. (I am ignoring those terrible ring bombs and the fact that in mid-air he's as nervously to control as an epileptic flea here. )

[Kogen]

Kogen, it sounds like you are getting your numbers from VGChartz which is known to be a very unnreliable site.

Unleashed is already over 2 million, it is selling great (mostly on Wii, then 360, PS3, PS2). So this is a success. This game does not have a budget price like 06, it is at 40 on PS2 and 50/60 on the others (depends on region).

Yep, that's VGChartz "numbers" alright. And by "numbers" I mean made up BS.

M&S Olympics long legs came from Europe not so much the U.S. and Unleashed barely made the charts in the U.S.(It was absent in the top twenty for both Nov. and Dec.) The only evidence where it did chart in the U.S. Is the top 10 Selling PS2 games in Dec.

PS2 GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
PS2 MADDEN NFL 09 ELECTRONIC ARTS
PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS RE: CHAIN OF MEMORIES SQUARE ENIX INC
PS2 WWE SMACKDOWN VS. RAW 2009 THQ
PS2 ROCK BAND* MTV GAMES/ELECTRONIC ARTS
PS2 ACTION/ADVENTURE BUNDLE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTURER
PS2 SONIC UNLEASHED SEGA OF AMERICA
PS2 LEGO BATMAN WARNER INTERACTIVE
PS2 CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR FINAL FRONTS ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
PS2 GUITAR HERO AEROSMITH* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD

http://blog.wired.com/games/2009/01/top ... es-of.html
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... count=2636

Seeing that it more or less faultering on the PS2, I highly doubt it was a 2 million seller. Barely one million is possible, but that still is pretty low compared to previous Sonic games. And I've read that the game has been discounted in certain European countries during the first month since it was selling poorly back then, but I'm not sure that it was a weekly sale or a permenant thing.

Yes, I did, and you are right some of it could be off. But if you checked around other sites, you could see it is being reported that Unleashed sold 2 million already, I have also seen figures showing the high sales of Heroes (people with NPD or whatever figures showed me several times) and Mega Collection/Plus (SEGA reported it on Sammy's site). VGChartz is just easier to get instead of asking people when I already know the general numbers. I would assume Adventure sold that good, as it sold with a lot of DCs in Japan too. Mario and Sonic I am unsure about, but I know it is one of the best selling games on Wii. If Mario Kart can do like 24 million, I am certain this game can do really good too, it is basically Mario in Wii Sports.


PPA: Playing Sonic 06 is like having a funnel rammed up your ass and vinegar being poured in. Yes, I know you like the graphics and music, and I think they are pretty good too, but it sucks so hard you cannot use it as an example. No one wants to play it twice.

The point people are making is that Tails should look closer to his actual character design, as the newer ones are not as good as before. The other complaints are just general stuff everyone knows, like the levels being dump and Silver the Hedgehog existing.


Also on a short note, in the new Genesis Collection, there is an interview about Silver. Silver and his story in Sonic 06 is what they were going to use for Phantom Saga.

[Arcade]

Sonic Unleashed sucks so much that I got the playstacion 2 version...

[Kogen]

Sonic Unleashed sucks so much that I got the playstacion 2 version...

So you know it sucks and you get the shittiest version on purpose. You must be a smart person.

[Shadow Hog]

It's Arcade. We already know he's a few cents short of a dollar.

[Kogen]

There is nothing wrong with being Canadian.

[P.P.A.]

PPA: Playing Sonic 06 is like having a funnel rammed up your ass and vinegar being poured in. Yes, I know you like the graphics and music, and I think they are pretty good too, but it sucks so hard you cannot use it as an example. No one wants to play it twice.

The main game perhaps not, but the levels? I personally thought replaying them was the only thing that made the game moderately enjoyable.
why do you still take me seriously on this damn it

The point people are making is that Tails should look closer to his actual character design, as the newer ones are not as good as before. The other complaints are just general stuff everyone knows, like the levels being dump and Silver the Hedgehog existing.

Well that I know (and agree with). But him not having been really playable since SA1 wasindeed brought up a couple of times.

[Kogen]

I mean people generally complain that Tails and Knuckles are never in the games anymore, as they used to be the main characters. That is nothing new/different.

Like really, who would not have wanted Chip to just be Tails and the werehog to just be Knuckles in Unleashed? Could have made a ton more sense and provided a better story.

[Ngangbius]

Yes, I did, and you are right some of it could be off. But if you checked around other sites, you could see it is being reported that Unleashed sold 2 million already, I have also seen figures showing the high sales of Heroes (people with NPD or whatever figures showed me several times) and Mega Collection/Plus (SEGA reported it on Sammy's site). VGChartz is just easier to get instead of asking people when I already know the general numbers. I would assume Adventure sold that good, as it sold with a lot of DCs in Japan too. Mario and Sonic I am unsure about, but I know it is one of the best selling games on Wii. If Mario Kart can do like 24 million, I am certain this game can do really good too, it is basically Mario in Wii Sports

And where did those sites you named get their numbers, VGChartz also? Possibly many low-profile, possibly fansites get numbers from VGChartz because as you said it is easier and more convient to recieve those numbers than to pay the NPD to get more accurate numbers for games that are not high sellers or search on NeoGAF for individual sales in game in their NPD threads. It's easier because VGChartz makes up their numbers based upon guessing and predictions. Case in point they reported the Wii sold 3 million in Dec in U.S. but when the actual numbers came out it revealed that it only sold 2 million. They reported that Valkryia Chronicles sold over 52,000 units in the U.S. when Sega's offical numbers had it for 33,000. I'm assuming that they pulled up the 2 million based on "trends" that Sonic had a possible had a resurgence of popularity due to M&S games and SSBB. But we can't really judge if he is more popular now than before since we do have an accurate reason why each indivdual consumer purchased those games. Also Mario Kart(I'm assuming you mean the Wii version) didn't sell 24 million.

Even EDGE's guesstimates in which they do more research have more validity than VGChartz.

Also on a short note, in the new Genesis Collection, there is an interview about Silver. Silver and his story in Sonic 06 is what they were going to use for Phantom Saga.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Werehog concept and almost everything about Sonic and the Black Knight started as different IPs also. :p

And if it was Knuckles in Unleashed instead of Werehog, I still would have complained because that concept wasn't that fun to play.

[Wombatwarlord777]

Does anybody else think that Tails's "Dummy Ring Bombs" attack are the worst thing to happen to his gameplay?

They don't really detract from anything else in his game, and they do function well as weapons in Sonic Heroes. It's just the idea itself that's repulsive for me. Tails ought to be able to use his natural defenses against enemies, like how Sonic can spin and Knuckles can punch. Tails should use his Tail Spin Attack (or whatever it's called) from Sonic Adventure. Also, if Tails's bombs get mixed up with actual rings, it can be troublesome trying to deferieniate the two, which is actually a threat on enemy-heavy levels such as Final Fortress.

Ngangbius wrote:

Also on a short note, in the new Genesis Collection, there is an interview about Silver. Silver and his story in Sonic 06 is what they were going to use for Phantom Saga.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Werehog concept and almost everything about Sonic and the Black Knight started as different IPs also. :p

And if it was Knuckles in Unleashed instead of Werehog, I still would have complained because that concept wasn't that fun to play.

Awkward, poorly developed IP's + Sonic + Overly enthusiastic Sonic fanatics = Money in the bank for Sega

I think I just cracked the code of Sega's primary business plan!

[Kogen]

I would continue on about the sales, but I just do not care enough to go find sources. So phack it. Lets just agree VGChartz is run by queers.

By Knuckles as the werehog, I meant built around his moves rather than stretchy arms stuff. But regardless, I would have wanted better quality and logical design (like no random QTE...) too. I think the concept is better than Sonic the Werehog in theory.


Tails' ring attack is extremely terrible. I do not get how they could have thought this was even remotely good. It was acceptable in Sonic Heroes, since the characters rarely were seperated, but it was just awkward in Sonic 06.

Like if I designed it, for example in Sonic 06, I would have made Tails attack like Shadow did. Homing attack into the enemy, then whip them with his tails a bit. Then just give him the twirling stuff Blaze had too. And no automatically flying forward/FPS attacks.

Outside of that example, I think Tails should be able to spindash, roll, and move fast (I know they fixed that in the DLC) again too. Like was not it Tails that showed Sonic how to spindash in the booklet's story?

Tails also needs to actually be following Sonic again, they could even add some 'CO-OP' type moves. And instead of allowing 2P/AI to just wander around pointlessly, they should (for lack of a better phrase) make Tails 'magnetically attracted' to Sonic's behind. That way he would rarely get lost and they could use it to actually innovate with the gameplay. Kind of like Sonic Heroes, but with just two characterss and less bullshite. Such as being able to fly Sonic up to places, like Sonic 3, for example.

[FlashTHD]

Like was not it Tails that showed Sonic how to spindash in the booklet's story?

A fact that was SoA's invention so it's a moot point.

[Kogen]

Princess Sally the Hedgehog would disagree with you.

[FlashTHD]

Princess Sally the Hedgehog would disagree with you.

And look where it's gotten that bitch since '93!

[CM August]

Princess Sally the Hedgehog would disagree with you.

Wait, isn't that a moot point also? The name certainly never caught on, she was Amy in every subsequent title afterward.

Now if you said 'Robotnik', which SoJ eventually acknowledged (sort of) you'd have a much better example.

[Kogen]

It was sarcasm.

[CM August]

Oh okay. For a moment I thought you were actually trying to say something.

[Wombatwarlord777]

Does anybody else think that Tails's "Dummy Ring Bombs" attack are the worst thing to happen to his gameplay?

Actually, the worst thing to happen to Tails was his inability to move outside of his mech during his levels in SA2.