Sonic Unleashed?

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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P.P.A.
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by P.P.A. »

Crap, the gameplay looks just as horrible as I expected. Non-stop speed, rails, speed boosters, a Rush-like boost move that lets you run through enemies, totally straight and linear level design... Why, just why?

Even though the graphics (of the surroundings) are absolutely gorgeous; I shat bricks when I first saw them. What a waste. :(

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Rob-Bert »

DackAttac wrote:Pretty sure that's how it works. Contact with enemy, the midair spin, repeat until out of enemies, then you land and start from a much lower speed. Unless you fire a "blank" in the direction you're headed, but then you just missed about thirty feet of ground that you would have run on otherwise.
FlashTHD wrote: Perhaps you should, cause Sonic 06 fits your description of it best, what with the fact it has next to no momentum in the physics whatsoever. In that game any and all forward motion is pre-scripted, not natural in any way. I think you underestimate the smoothness of motion the homing attack does have.

As the homing attack was in its' better days, i've never been bothered by it much, and while i'd really rather not fish for problems that don't seriously exist, i'll try to address that. When compared to the ease of motion of plain jumping into an enemy, no it's never been quite as quick, but I can imagine some ways to smooth/speed it up a little bit more without either going to the point of making it such that there's no sense of "force" to it, or adding too many variables to the attack. Like, covering less ground with the jump dash;* there might be a way to make it so if you're already going faster than the max speed the dash would have propelled you by default, your momentum doesn't play by a script and cut you down to that speed instantly, or you just lose less speed. Keeping in mind while adjusting this that things can't get too out of control. This is assuming I don't understand less about how the jump dash works than I think I do.

Hope that came out right. (* so I used a semicolon and I am a prude, what chu gonna do about it?) See, it's not so much a bad idea as it is one that could be fine-tuned further instead of slapping a band-aid gimmick overtop that fouls up the whole rulebook, as opposed to just rewriting a few specific details. I guess these are the kinds of things they had to wrestle with in trying to design character moves for SA1.
In the original Sonic games, Sonic could actually jump higher and farther if he was running at full speed when you pressed the button, like many other platformers.

Now, in the 3D Sonics, Sonic always jumps at the same speed, regardless of how fast you were going beforehand. This is coupled with the ability to make him hang in the air by holding the button down. Serious momentum killer, and kind of a lazy shortcut to what would otherwise be standard and expected physics. Adding the homing attack was an even lazier way to fix the problems this created, including being able to actually hit enemies by jumping on them.

Now this new boost mode thing is yet another bandage on top of that bandage, despite the fact that they should've just used better ointment.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Ngangbius »

P.P.A. wrote:Crap, the gameplay looks just as horrible as I expected. Non-stop speed, rails, speed boosters, a Rush-like boost move that lets you run through enemies, totally straight and linear level design... Why, just why?
Yeah, there was also a serious lack of platforming in this trailer.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Majestic Joey »

To me it seems like they are trying to make the whole game feel like the moment in sonic adventure where you out run the whale. Sure all you did is press forward but it was so fucking awesome.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Senbei »

Rob-Bert wrote:Now, in the 3D Sonics, Sonic always jumps at the same speed, regardless of how fast you were going beforehand. This is coupled with the ability to make him hang in the air by holding the button down. Serious momentum killer, and kind of a lazy shortcut to what would otherwise be standard and expected physics. Adding the homing attack was an even lazier way to fix the problems this created, including being able to actually hit enemies by jumping on them.
I'm not sure how this is a bad thing. From what I've gathered, people here seem to agree that a Sonic game should be paced with fast and slow sections and that it's helpful to slow down when enemies appear. Also, the transition from fast to slow should be seamless. Homing attack satisfies these requirements by slowing the character down and giving the player time to plan the attack. Speed can then be regained instantaneously by "firing a blank." It's not perfect, but the only other approach towards 3D combat I can think of is QTE, and QTE is exactly the reason why Unleashed looks so lame (and, ironically, like the first playable 3D Sonic game since SA2).

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Post by Isuka »

Same opinion here as all of you, folks.

About the momentum stuff in the 3D games, the only other thing that felt "wrong" when compared to the classics physics is the fact that, no matter from which angle you attacked an enemy with a standard jump, the game would always slow down the pace.
The originals had this thing where you just blasted through enemies without ever slowing down if you jumped through them at an angle near 0º/ 180º, and even if you jumped from a lower angle and destroyed them, it still wouldn't slow you down. When jumping from above, you'd basically use them as springs to return to the height you started from without slowing down either.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Frieza2000 »

Forget linearity and lack of platforming; I like games where I have a whole second to absorb what's going on. There was some cool stuff in that, but it's wasted because if you blink you're going to miss it, and if you haven't already memorized the course you'll probably be too busy looking out for the next obstacle to appreciate any of it. I'd have no idea where I was beyond "upper city area" if I was actually playing. I mean, did you see how fast those alternate paths zoomed by? There's a great example at 00:38.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by (...) »

Higher res video:
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/1 ... 61608.html

I like it. I'm officially optimistic, pending the announcement of the werewolf gameplay and the inevitable inclusion of Shadow (here's hoping schedule contraints eliminate both!).

I see where they're going with the gameplay. Yeah, it's linear, but I don't think the entire game is like that. For starters, if the player has to earn their speed boost by collecting rings or doing tricks or whatever, then they can't just coast through the entire level all super-fast and invincible as the player is in this trailer. Also, I remember a couple of previews saying that there are alternate routes and slower platform sections. I imagine that slow, ponderous platforming doesn't look quite as good in trailer form!

Anyway, where's OCB? He usually has the inside info on whether these games are any good.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by FlashTHD »

(...) wrote:For starters, if the player has to earn their speed boost by collecting rings or doing tricks or whatever, then they can't just coast through the entire level all super-fast and invincible as the player is in this trailer.
Someone who's any good will.
Anyway, where's OCB? He usually has the inside info on whether these games are any good.
Either quit Sega or it was all a red herring.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by DackAttac »

I'm willing to give the lack of platforming another chance, since I think what bugged me the most about Secret Rings (I just realized that I refer to it as Secret Rings when I'm pointing out its flaws and Wildfire when I'm applauding it. That's gotta be some freudian shit right there.) was less the tunnelvision level design and more the fact that you moved on a rail. There's no turning around, there's no going sideways, there's no trying to hop up onto a platform you missed by going diagonal. Skeleton Dome, Levitated Ruin and Pirate Storm had some true shining moments as a platformer (all of them diminished by the controls). The first half of the phrase cautious optimism cannot be overstressed, but this is looking good enough that werehog would have to be pret-ty bad to dampen this. (I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm not even saying it's unlikely. But it's just gotta be really awful.)

Agreement with Rob on that bandage analogy, but I'm not so anxious to see it attempted this time out. I'd like to see them stitch all the pieces back together into a coherent mass before attempting to heal the wounds. Otherwise you get shit like Hereos' special stages.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Radrappy »

I was actually being super sarcastic in my first post. It looks way too sloppy. I've always dreamed of a sonic game where you could jump and skip across rooftops but this is the absolute worst way to do it. where is the fucking animation? It's all floaty half assed bullshit. Where are the moments where sonic has a little anticipation right after he hits the ground? Anyone who's watched the sonic cd OP knows what I'm talking about. You know those moments in secret rings where you would have the highest speed upgrade on and would totally lose control during platforming sequences, leading you to completely slide over the whole level awkwardly? This video just looks like a whole lot of that. Fuck grinding. No more fucking grinding please. It was cool in Jet set radio and no where else. And right now, it looks like you do absolutely nothing during the 2d portions. like, absolutely. nothing.

Also I'm pretty sure OCB was fairly optimistic about Sonic 06, encouraging us with things like, "it's a lot better than shadow, but a little worse than Sa2. "

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by DackAttac »

Oh, my bad. I should have spotted the lack of pre-ground-contact anticipation and realized that there was nothing else to like there and any praise would obviously be in jest.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Radrappy »

Damn straight. To be positive right now would be foolish and ultimately heart breaking.


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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by b_boult »

There are too many speed boosters in this trailer, this is my only major criticism. They could substitute most of them for rings instead so it would feel like you'd actually achieved your speed boost when you get one. Apart from that, it looks like a breath of fresh air and a joy to play. I love the look of Sonic drift, Matt Cassamassina was right in his preview, you get a real sense of Sonic's weight and you drift round a corner and I bet it fun to do. Sidestep looks like an interesting addition as well, although I hope they exploit this for all it's worth because it has a lot more potential than what we've seen in the trailer. I would also like to see a bit more platforming at some point too, although at this point I imagine that Weresonic is going to cater for that more of less exclusively. Let's hope it doesn't suck.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by P.P.A. »

These all seem more like different ways to cover the same area. It's hard to say what I mean, it's like, instead of leading you to a wholly different part of the level it seems these things are merely tools to cover the same exact area, just in a slightly different way.
Compare that to for example Sonic Chaos' or Sonic CD's tons of parallel, interfering paths. Or Sonic R, hell, even Sonic fucking 06 (which rarely had more than two parallel paths though as opposed to the others, but was still a step into the right direction).
Radrappy wrote:Also I'm pretty sure OCB was fairly optimistic about Sonic 06, encouraging us with things like, "it's a lot better than shadow, but a little worse than Sa2. "
Well, wasn't that the case in the end?

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Forza Johnman »

P.P.A. wrote:
Radrappy wrote:Also I'm pretty sure OCB was fairly optimistic about Sonic 06, encouraging us with things like, "it's a lot better than shadow, but a little worse than Sa2. "
Well, wasn't that the case in the end?
No, no it wasn't.

As for Sonic Unleashed, the trailer did look quite fun, I thought. Graphics looked a cut above those on Sonic 06. But, I'm not getting too excited about it, because it just looks like its going to play like Sonic Rush, only with more behind Sonic action and some QTE.

Did anyone else notice the slide attack and the spring noises from Sonic 06 returning?

Also on OCB, I thought he was off to university, quite a while back, which mentioned during the whole Sonic 06 script leak crisis. I'm sure he'll tell us soon though.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Segaholic2 »

The best part of that new trailer was the song. At least the games still retain a consistent quality in cheesy buttrock. It's my guilty pleasure.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Dasher »

Someone in Sonic Team (mainly The Rush Team) wants to bring the classic side of Sonic out again (if just a bit) but then theres this "force" that stops them from archiving perfection, remember the Sonic Rush Beta? thats what I think, I don't know about you.

Oh! and Isn't SEGA Europe working for the first time on this game as well? that explains the Beast and London. -_-;;

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by K2J »

I'm getting more excited for this game, but I'm still cautious. Are you required to go that fast the entire time? I'm hoping the player in the video was holding right / up the entire time.
Forza Johnman wrote: Did anyone else notice the slide attack and the spring noises from Sonic 06 returning?
Yeah, and they're still using the same pottery-shattering noise all the way back from the desert stages of SA2.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by One Classy Bloke »

Unleashed looks like you're never really in control. It looks more like push buttons and receive the illusion of input. I don't really have a lot of hope for this, but I'm bitter about a lot of things these days.

Btw, yea, I did leave Sega for uni a while back. I tried working at Sega again, but it seems that I'm a bit short on powerful friends there now. That said, I could pester some of my old colleagues for some opinion on Unleashed, but to be honest it's too much effort and I've got bigger concerns at the moment.

I could tell you about The Crucible though. Saw some early gameplay of that a while back.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by FlashTHD »

http://kotaku.com/5017431/sonic-unleash ... to-be-true
Luke Plunkett wrote:It does! I mean, look at this thing. It looks amazing. Absolutely amazing. Speed, bright colours, Sega music, speed, blue skies...oh man. And yet...it's a Sega game. A Sega Sonic game. Made after 1992. Part of me wants to give myself over to the excitement, while the other part is afraid. Afraid they'll find some way to balls this up.
Hold the...the...what the FUCK:
A Sega Sonic game. Made after 1992.
I think it violates a commandment here to post up a news story and then run off, but if I said anything right now i'd be no better than Luke here. I need to sort this out and figuratively let my blood stop boiling first.

OCB, if anything, it would be quite nice to have some idea how seriously things like the above are taken (at least at SoE).
Last edited by FlashTHD on Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Segaholic2 »

Oh no, somebody on the Internet's got an opinion. And it's different from mine!!

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Zeta »

Videogame journalists have the opinion that the newer Sonic games make the older ones retroactively bad. At first they were joking, but that seems to be their actual state these days.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Crazy Penguin »

If Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were released as one game the series would probably have a much stronger reputation. I'm sure the writer just forgot about Sonic CD anyway, it tends to be the favourite amongst video game 'journalists'.

Still, Sonic 1 in 1991, Sonic 2 in 1992, Sonic CD in 1993 and Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles in 1994. That was a damn fine track record, looking back it's really quite amazing that they were able to deliver a great Sonic game each year with genuine levels of improvement.

We can agree that the majority of the spin-offs and handheld games sucked but the main big console platformers were top notch until Chaotix and Sonic 3D killed the momentum.

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