Sonic Unleashed?

Recent happenings of pertinence to Sonic fans.
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PSMad
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by PSMad »

UK’s ‘Nintendo Official Magazine’ today has Sonic Unleashed on its front cover, the leaked Sonic pre-render with Were-Sonic behind him. The article is pretty pointless telling us almost everything we already know and using all the pictures already leaked. No mention is given as to if they are Wii pictures for the title. Hell, they also make a mention to the leak of pictures and a video despite proudly proclaiming ‘World Exclusive’ on the front cover.

The only things we didn’t know about mentioned are some of Sonic’s new moves. The first is Sonic Boost which sounds like it works exactly like the Rush gage in Sonic Rush. Secondly, Quick Step, which is used to avoid obstacles left and right when in the 3D perspective. Finally we have the Sonic Drift (catchy name, I wonder where they got it from…) which is used to guide Sonic around tight corners and bends in the path.

The Were-Hog gameplay is described as being focused on ‘obstacle manipulation’ (read: throwing stuff around). He’s described as being more like the Incredible Hulk to Sonic’s Bruce Banner.

Personally I have an image of the King Kong Gorilla game play bits in my head with Were-Sonic swinging around the levels off beams and buildings, then ripping various parts off of Eggman’s robots before tossing them aside.

Anybody want me to scan it?

ps, hopefully this was a more useful post than my last...

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by FlashTHD »

Esrever wrote:Totally. The rather unique issue that Sonic has is that virtually every attempt to innovate within the franchise has sucked. As a result, both hardcore fans and your more casual observers have developed an almost religious hatred of new ideas in Sonic titles, no matter how small they are. For Sonic, change has become permanently associated with failure, and tradition with success.

But I think people have forgotten that the problem with the newer Sonic games is not that they do something new, but that they usually do it badly. A Sonic game is not somehow "automatically bad" just because it is in 3D, or because it has multiple characters, or because it takes place in an Arabian setting, or because it has robot pirates in it, or because Sonic turns into a werewolf. It's just bad if those elements are poorly implemented.

And classic ideas can be implemented just as poorly as new ones. A 2D Sonic in a classic setting with no new moves, characters, items or abilities is not a magic fix-all solution. There have been plenty of Sonic games that followed that formula and still sucked. People would do well to remember that!

I don't have a lot of hope for Sonic Unleashed, but I wouldn't have any more hope for it even if it was 100 percent werewolf free. Because it's not werewolf Sonic and his melee combat that nearly guarantee this game's abysmal quality... it's the developer, and nearly uninterrupted ten-year track record of releasing lousy Sonic titles of styles old and new.
I owe you a drink. That's exactly my position on the situation.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by DackAttac »

Thanks Esrever. That's it. That's not only what I've been trying to get my head around and declare but been unable to about Unleashed, but pretty much every game since Shadow.

In fact, that's one thing you have to hand to Sonic Team. Aside from the Advance titles on the side (which never felt as massive of affairs as the Genesis titles, anyway), they've integrated new concepts and tried new things, every time. Fishing. People bitched, "stick to core gameplay," even when the game was good. But still, Sonic Team tried to pare it down to three modes of play. People complained about the treasure hunting, saying "stick to action-based play". Then they integrated team play. Then guns and vehicles. Then telekinesis. Then rails and skillsets. Now werewolves. I mean, really, they've refused to backslide creatively. As far as artistic vision goes, they're relatively ambitious. If they displayed half that enthusiasm in execution, we'd have a pretty solid saga.

I'm trying to decide which musical metaphor fits closer with the bareboneophilia mentality—more like a Weezer fan who claims Pinkerton was their last good album because they expanded artistically from it instead of carbon copying it; or a fan of any band who exiles the artist from their music library for "selling out" upon hearing a new lead single but nothing else from the album it's from?

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Locit »

Hell, I'll buy him two*. I remember how excited I was when I heard you could fly wherever the hell you wanted as Tails in Sonic 3. It worked! Then, when the idea of playing as Knuckles was introduced, I was even more excited, because it worked with Tails. And it worked again!

It's neat to look at this trend, because Sonic Adventure can even be seen as the next logical step with its six playable characters and use of the same basic gamut of stages in even more varied gameplay styles. I loved the hell out of it, and only started souring on the idea in SA2. In 2, they began to cut into the Sonic-style levels by making most of them exclusive to characters, rather than compliment them with a fresh perspective that Sonic's abilities alone wouldn't allow.

It was probably a lot easier from a design perspective, but for me the levels lost much of their charm by becoming less complex and organic, and the even the Sonic/Shadow gameplay felt more dependent on rote memorization- perhaps thanks to the amount of exactness the developers could exert on each area's layout. For instance, I think it would've been cool if they'd thought to adapt Rouge's Mad Space level to also accomadate a running pathway through its upper reaches and gravitized planetoids for Sonic.

On the plus side, it doesn't sound like Iizuka is actually in charge of Unleashed (hopefully). Hashimoto's MobyGames profile doesn't scream genius, but I'm curious to see where he takes things.

(*one is for Conscience Cat)

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Opa-Opa »

You know who was awesome to play with? Amy. I wanted Amy's campaign to be much bigger.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by DackAttac »

When I first got SA, for some reason, I figured that it was game over if I got caught by Zero. (i.e., touched him or his arm cannon got me). So I was super-terrified of him, and the whole first two stages were like a cutesy horror movie. This actually made playing as Amy a blast. It's a shame I had it figured out by Final Egg, his crashing through that wall would have been incredible.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Hybrid »

DackAttac wrote:When I first got SA, for some reason, I figured that it was game over if I got caught by Zero. (i.e., touched him or his arm cannon got me). So I was super-terrified of him, and the whole first two stages were like a cutesy horror movie. This actually made playing as Amy a blast. It's a shame I had it figured out by Final Egg, his crashing through that wall would have been incredible.
You've got to be kidding me.

I played her whole damn campaign terrified of that bastard.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by DackAttac »

OK, then. Was the wall-smash as pants-shittingly intense as I imagined?

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Brazillian Cara »

I do remember the first time I played that stage;

Tikal: "Watch out, he's getting clos--"* (wall crashes, Cara yelps)

*Something like that.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Opa-Opa »

It's amazing (actually, not that much) how retarded Amy became in the non Adventure games. Now she kinda reminds me of that Miss South Carolina.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Wooduck51 »

You know what would make the wolf Sonic sections great? no health bars. Just being able to rip through enemies freely and easily would most likely make up for any possible control problems.

And how is it that Esrever always ends up being the voice of reason?

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Frieza2000 »

DackAttac wrote:When I first got SA, for some reason, I figured that it was game over if I got caught by Zero.
The hint ball in the first level was very misleading. It said something like "it'll be over if he catches you." I was under the same illusion until I realized I'd never seen it happen and spent 5 minutes letting him pummel me.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Shadow Hog »

Y'know, I think I was pretty paranoid about Amy's sequences at first, too... but after a while, I just kind of got used to it. Especially since I was quite aware that you could pummel Zero to keep him away from you... at least, for a little while.
Wooduck51 wrote: And how is it that Esrever always ends up being the voice of reason?
He's secretly a Vulcan.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by G.Silver »

Vulcans, of course, being paranoid conspiracy theorists who cry "hoax!" whenever a sequel to their favorite franchise is announced. They cry it logically, however.

I really liked Amy's game too! In a way it felt "faster" than any other character, even though her running speed was really pretty slow, because you always had to be running and on the move. In a way I'm glad it was so short, because that was probably one of the reasons it was so strong, but it definitely left me wanting more.

The other "game type" that really resonated with me was the shooting in SA2, it felt completely different from the main game (even moreso than Gamma's stages in SA), but it was extremely solid and well-implimented. I would gladly pay for an original robot shooter (not a Sonic one) based around the same playstyle.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Shadow Hog »

Looking back on it, it's occurred to me just how much the shooting segments in the Sonic games turned out to basically be Panzer Dragoon: the Platformer.

Seriously, tap the button to shoot a strong non-homing shot, hold it to fire weaker homing missiles. Just like Panzer Dragoon. Except I don't think the different shots actually DID do different damage, and you aren't perpetually flying in this game (yes yes I'm well aware that Zwei starts off with running segments - but you didn't jump there, either, so).

This actually has me wondering how awesome a game which has you wreaking havoc on the back of a wingless dragon (maybe just a Coolia?) would be. Maybe not quite as satisfying as flying through the air, taking on an entire floating battleship (as per Stage 6 in Zwei or a similar stage midway through Orta), but it could potentially work - Sonic Team showed as much. Just fix the goddamn camera.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Zeta »

This actually has me wondering how awesome a game which has you wreaking havoc on the back of a wingless dragon (maybe just a Coolia?) would be. Maybe not quite as satisfying as flying through the air, taking on an entire floating battleship (as per Stage 6 in Zwei or a similar stage midway through Orta), but it could potentially work - Sonic Team showed as much. Just fix the goddamn camera.
I was thinking this today while playing Zwei. A wingless dragon, maybe one that could jump and glide a bit with vestigial wings but was nonetheless built more or like a giant armored rhino that spits out laser beams.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Esrever »

You know, the more I read G. Silver's posts the harder I find them to believe. I think he might be a hoax, what do you think guys?

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Green Gibbon! »

I've been suspicious for a while myself, so I did some research and it turns out that there is no state called Warshington.

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DackAttac
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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by DackAttac »

...Who said it's a state?

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by Opa-Opa »

I think it's somewhere near Warkansas.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by P.P.A. »

Wasn't that the first city you visit in Skies of Warcadia?

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by G.Silver »

Actually it's a mythical area believed to exist by certain people in the midwest (some even claim to have been there), but as GG!'s research indicates, there is no place by that name.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by P.P.A. »

urprisingly I too got this ONM issue. Even though last time I got the letter that I'd have to continue my subscription if I don't want to lose it. Oh well, seems that THIS was the last issue then. Fortunately. I raged numerous times:
(...)simple side-scrolling platformer(...)
Simple? One of the outstanding features of the early Sonic games were their unusually complex level designs.
(...)Sonic Heroes (and its unnecessary sequel)(...)
Err, what sequel? It's not Shadow they're referring too, as that gets noted just a few words after.
(...)and the les said about Sonic The Hedgehog on 360 and PS3 the better, if only because it was absolutely awful.
I don't deny S06 was a bad game (even though I like it), but constantly ignoring its few positive aspects (level design, music, concept, graphics) is just unfair. Also it's funny how they praise SatSR throughout the duration of the article in contrast. §easily the best 'proper' home console Sonic game for a long time", huh? (Damn it, I need to buy it so I can officially bitch about it. :/)
Think that the vastness of the 3D levels and lack of guidance through them goes against everything that Sonic's original speed freak gameplay stands for? Then it's gone.
"original speed freak gameplay", wasn't that first introduced in Sonic Advance 2 (the once-per-game speed levels of the old games aside (SLZ, SS, CPZ...)? Vast 3D levels, the only games to had those were Sonic R and 06 iirc. The others had linear, GUIDED almost on-rails levels that were definitely not what Sonic was in the first place. It seems these people have never played Sonic CD, or even Sonic Triple Trouble.
(...)classic level design, it lets Sonic fans get back to the business of running through stages at ridiculous speeds, relying on their reactions to dodge obstacles and generally enjoying the things that made Sonic good in the first place.
I begin to think these people consider Sonic Rush a classic Sonic game, because this is definitely not what I remember of the MD games.
The result? A game that lets you explore without letting you off the leash too much,
That doesn't even really make sense, unless a splitting path once or twice in a HOLD RIGHT AND RUN levels means "exploration" now.
doesn't over-complicate the action with levels that feel too packed with things to do (...)
Aw, crap. This sounds an awful lot like we're getting a Rush 3, where all you do is hold right. Also I am most certain all the old games had levels filled with gimmicks and numerous stuff to do, and that also was one of the reasons they were so good!
(...)the sole gimmick that Sonic Team has decided to make the key focus of the whole game.
Oh god. What did you say about "going back to the roots" again?
(...)Think of it as an attempt to mix up the gameplay a little,(...)
Yeah, just like the team feature in Heroes and the gunplay in Shadow (that was bashed a few lines ago, even though while admittedly crap, it was a lot less game-defining than Heroes' buddy bullshit, Rush's stupid boost move and so on), amirite?

To sum it up, I don't regret in any way that I discontinued my subscription. While I don't expect a Nintendo magazine to be 100% informed about the mascot of the former rival company, I do expect at least a bit of competence, or at least admittance to the lack thereof. But keeping referring to "classic Sonic gameplay" and then going on to list things that contradict that is just pathetic. I suggest the authors to play Sonic 1-3&K and Sonic CD some more, and then come back and claim that Rush (and probably Unleashed) are at least remotely similar to them in gameplay, style and spirit.

In fact I am tempted to join the forums of ONM just to copypaste this rant. Wow, I'm in rage again.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by DackAttac »

P.P.A. wrote:
(...)and the les said about Sonic The Hedgehog on 360 and PS3 the better, if only because it was absolutely awful.
I don't deny S06 was a bad game (even though I like it), but constantly ignoring its few positive aspects (level design, music, concept, graphics) is just unfair. Also it's funny how they praise SatSR throughout the duration of the article in contrast. §easily the best 'proper' home console Sonic game for a long time", huh? (Damn it, I need to buy it so I can officially bitch about it. :/)
SatSR has kind of gotten this valedictorian of the special ed class honor. If you want experience just to prove the game isn't worth it, It was very flawed, and its flaws are pretty much what you'd expect from a Sega alumnus—control issues, some trite story issues, a bad boss or two, but if you were open-minded enough to see S360 for what it got right, cracking open Wildfire with a revved batch of pessimism ready to go is kind of a waste of that mindset, since I think you'd appreciate how Wildfire succeeded in its own victories. There are some frustrating moments, but there are some, "Hell yes, this is why I love platforming games" moments, and Sonic hasn't given me one of those since Sega made consoles.

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Re: Sonic Unleashed?

Post by P.P.A. »

Actually I was already expecting Sonic 06 to be horrible, but it grew on me as I kept playing. So I guess giving SatSR a shot might be worth it, maybe I'll also find something I like.

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