Sonic the Hedgehog demo on XBL Marketplace

[(...)]

Some people on GameFAQs are saying this demo is actually from E3 2005, which would explain why everything seems so poor.

It's the E306 build.

It can take up to two months to get a game demo out (what with bugs, quality control, tying-off non-demo areas and proving that they all work etc). Slapping an up-to-date HUD on there is pretty straightforward.

[Esrever]

This would suit the old Next-Gen thread better, but whatever.

Sazpaimon's irrefutable evidence!

Oh man, don't even get me started. It's a battle that reason can not win. I gave it my best shot, but if anyone can buy "think Trunks from Dragonball Z" as a line from an official internal (bilingual!) Sega document, I think convincing them otherwise is pretty much a lost cause. If OCB ever had any actual inside information, he's sure done a good job burying it with all this idiotic hoaxing.

This demo is REALLY disheartening. After watching that google video playthrough, I've got to say... even Shadow the Hedgehog had a faster gameplay pace and fewer opportunities for pit deaths. It had many of the same camera problems though.

It seems like with every new iteration of the franchise, they move the camera closer to the ground. Doing this helps create the illusion of a faster speed -- the shallower the camera angle, the "faster" the ground near the base of the screen whips by your field of view -- but it makes it much harder to see where you are going and what is behind you. It's like the in-the-driver's-seat view in racing games. It looks neat, but from a gameplay perspective no one would ever actually use it.

[RyogaMasaki]

This would suit the old Next-Gen thread better, but whatever.

Sazpaimon's irrefutable evidence!

Oh man, don't even get me started. It's a battle that reason can not win. I gave it my best shot, but if anyone can buy "think Trunks from Dragonball Z" as a line from an official internal (bilingual!) Sega document, I think convincing them otherwise is pretty much a lost cause. If OCB ever had any actual inside information, he's sure done a good job burying it with all this idiotic hoaxing.

(to everyone who knows me from other forums: I'm not here to troll or cause trouble, I just want to make some points then let YOU guys decide whether it's fake or not =)

I made a post earlier on the cult with some comments on the script, since Saz sent it to me early yesterday morning, asking that I double-check the Japanese and work on the non-English parts. Namely, there's a section called renewal_points in the .XLS which is basically a changelog of the script, 100% in Japanese, with the oldest entry being from Sept 2005. It's quite detailed and the Japanese is spot on and uses everyday speech. It was most definately written by a native speaker, or someone who is very very fluent. Honestly, the same goes for the rest of the Japanese in the script, although it is of course already translated. I posted a screenshot of that section along with some other small tidbits in that cult post, which Saz has since reposted in the news on the front page, so check there if you're interested. =)

Regarding the Trunks thing, you may note that it says that it is a temporary description, probably just something jotted down from a meeting and used as a placeholder, I'd guess. All of Dragonball has a sort of social stigma amongst modern Japanese; I almost want to compare to, say, Looney Tunes or something in the sense that the great majority of the populace knows of the basic story and characters. I don't think it's a stretch to compare one character to another from a completely different series if you're trying to get your point across in an informal setting.

I don't know all the details about OCB lying and all that crazyness (and I don't really care to know either, most of it seems too silly), but everything I've seen in this document leads me to believe it's real. If this is a hoax, it is monumental.

Like I said, I don't want to cause inter-forum arguments or whatnot, I just want to play the devil's advocate here and point out some facts, as someone who has read this script quite a bit now. If you still aren't convinced, that's cool. We only have, what, another month or two till it's released? One of us will be proven correct then, so let's not let this descend into bickering. =P
(edited for typos hurrr)

[Forza Johnman]

Tails is on the JP Sonic Site
Also Wave Ocean is added to stages.

[Espio]

Hmm... "Re-invent"? "Start all over"? Like Gibbon said; 'the ice is thin, and we are skating on it' - we just fell thru... This is soo f¤% sad!

[BlazeHedgehog]

It's like the in-the-driver's-seat view in racing games. It looks neat, but from a gameplay perspective no one would ever actually use it.

Uh. I use that perspective pretty much exclusively in almost every racing game that supports it. It helps me get a better view on where my car is on the road; I hate trying to drive a car from OUTSIDE of the vehicle; it just doesn't feel natural.

The only driving games I play from third person are GTA and Crazy Taxi. But racing sims? In-the-driver's-seat is a requirement, for me.

[Radrappy]

um somehow ryoga, with this game sucking balls and all, I really don't care to argue. In fact, this makes me not care at all.

[SegaSonic]

Hmm... "Re-invent"? "Start all over"? Like Gibbon said; 'the ice is thin, and we are skating on it' - we just fell thru... This is soo f¤% sad!

What are you talking about? what do you mean?

[Omni Hunter]

Gibbs stated in one of his updates that with what Sega were promising on this new game, we are skating on thin ice.
With what we have seen so far, we may indeed be falling through it.

[Esrever]

Yeah Ryoga, don't sweat it. I haven't noticed any flaws in the script specifically, which is why I haven't really criticized it. The only reason that I'm not inclined to trust it is because everything that came before it is clearly forged, especially the Silver drawing. If you guys managed to get your hands on a real script, good for you... I just wish it hadn't come along with so many stupid hoaxes. Because honestly, all the annoying hoaxing is one of the main reasons why I'm not active in the "Sonic community" outside of this forum.

In any event, the quality of this demo was so depressingly awful that I find myself losing pretty much all interest in the game and its story. I hadn't realize how much my hopes had risen in the last month or two until now. But now it really looks like a trainwreck.

I still can't get over how piecemeal the level looks. Sonic stages have been elevated highways for quite some time, but this level is so chopped up it looks more like elevated lilypads. Maybe its just the visual effect you get from having the wind paths instead of solid ground paths, but most of this stage looks like a series of tiny elevated circular platforms surrounded by miles and miles of pits. It kind of reminds me of the later levels of Super Magnetic Neo.

[Sazpaimon]

Just letting you guys know, the document was confirmed by a sega rep at TGS06, says Slash at cult:

"Also a sega rep at the gameshow told me some info that fits perfectly with the document OCB gave us. Its legit."

Take that as you will, though :)

[Tweaker]

So if the script is legit, then what IS the fake info? It just doesn't add up.

[Sazpaimon]

I don't think there IS any fake info here. Here's why:

OCB didn't know Silver's original name was Venice (how could he, it was on the Japanese only page), he also told me he didn't have Japanese character support installed, and he would have it if he wasn't so lazy. What point am I trying to make? Well, first off, each image on the character bio page has a "name." For example, the Sonic Heroes renders have the name Sonic_fltのコピーor Knuckles_fltのコピー, which essentially mean, "Copy of Sonic_flt." Now, think windows, when you copy and paste a file into the same directory, you get "Copy of Filename." On a Japanese Windows OS, you get filenameのコピー, which means the same thing. Obviously for OCB to have inserted those he would have needed a Japanese Windows OS or the files with those original names AND have asian language support installed.

Finally, for the Silver image, it's name is "illust_02venice1". Remember I said earlier about OCB not knowing his original name was Venice, and the only way for him to know was to translate the renewal_points section? Yea, so for him to have put that in there, he would have needed to know his original name was Venice, which he couldn't have, so that clears up my doubt

That's not to say OCB didn't throw some false info around in the past, but I'm pretty confident that what he's given me is legit.

[Esrever]

Look man, you can talk up this script as much as you like, but there is no way that drawing of Silver is real "concept art" and the reasons why have already been discussed extensively in the other thread. No amount of supporting documents will change the fact that concept artwork would never look like that. A dog is a dog, no matter how many books you can find that call it a cat.

If you guys still want to keep taking this stuff seriously, then sure, please go ahead and do it on the Cult. But over here, let's just agree to disagree and leave it be, eh? I don't want to keep cluttering up unrelated threads here at the GHZ arguing with you dudes. Clearly I'm not going to convince you of anything, and I assure you the opposite is true as well, so let's just drop it altogether.

Now, let's get back to what this is supposed to be about... sobbing about how the new demo is destroying our dreams!

[Green Gibbon!]

I hadn't realize how much my hopes had risen in the last month or two until now. But now it really looks like a trainwreck.

Same thing here. I never expected it to be spectacular and I even made a conscious effort to distance myself when the game was first shown over the summer, but somehow or other (I blame the whale chase scene) I'd started to sniff around it curiously like some forbidden fruit. By all logic, it should've been at least as good as Sonic Adventure 1, even if it failed to progress beyond that. It's utterly baffling how they've managed to make the control consistently worse with each new sequel, but Jesus, even in the likes of Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes you could still run and jump around and it at least felt like a functional piece of programming. How could they screw up that fundamental mechanic so badly when they were obviously so much closer the first time? It defies logic. You're not supposed to get worse with experience.

[Tweaker]

Look man, you can talk up this script as much as you like, but there is no way that drawing of Silver is real "concept art" and the reasons why have already been discussed extensively in the other thread. No amount of supporting documents will change the fact that concept artwork would never look like that. A dog is a dog, no matter how many books you can find that call it a cat.

If you guys still want to keep taking this stuff seriously, then sure, please go ahead and do it on the Cult. But over here, let's just agree to disagree and leave it be, eh? I don't want to keep cluttering up unrelated threads here at the GHZ arguing with you dudes. Clearly I'm not going to convince you of anything, and I assure you the opposite is true as well, so let's just drop it altogether.

Now, let's get back to what this is supposed to be about... sobbing about how the new demo is destroying our dreams!

To be fair, all your reasons have done is proven that OCB has lied in the past about some things before, and believes we take things too seriously... Many people, however, have confirmed the contents of the script (or, at least the textual contents) to be legitimate, as per the original claims of OCB in regards to the script. And if by some unfathomable chance that the script IS fake, how would you explain OCB's going about with this hoax? It seems to wild to be able to believe.

I still trust you guys have something up your sleeve to prove that OCB's been bullshitting, but until I see it, it's something that's hard for me to accept, especially considering the evidence of the other side of the argument far surpasses that of yours for the moment, at least to the public... You know what I mean? What you know is not something we know, and without sufficient evidence, how do you expect us to trust you?

I've been taking sides this whole argument for so long... From a neutral viewpoint, can you PLEASE reveal logs or SOMETHING that prove OCB as a fraud, and specific citations that prove the Silver art is fake as well? I wouldn't trust the script on its own without trusting the integrity of Saz/OCB, so I hope you understand me here. PM it to me if need be, but please, at least help me understand things here.

--------------------------------

The demo? I've still yet to try it, due to me being a poor bastard without a dime to his name... let alone a 360. Maybe I can find someone to leech off of, though. =P

[Radrappy]

Esrever said it already. We're not going to argue this further. We've already let you know why this cannot be official art.

[Tweaker]

Esrever said it already. We're not going to argue this further. We've already let you know why this cannot be official art.

You'll have to tell me where that proof is, then, because I don't see it explicitly proving the art being fake.

I also hope this isn't grounds for banning again... I'm trying to be reasonable here, and I don't think it's fair for my opinion to simply be brushed aside as if it didn't mean anything. Yours is no more truthful than mine.

-------------------------

On a side note, I just saw a video of this demo, and it's... sickening, to say the least. This CAN'T represent the final build, it just can't. This HAS to have been done on purpose - even the latest trailers contradict the lack of speed in this demo.

[Delphine]

Here, I'll say it less politely: SHUT UP. We don't want to argue about it here. SHUT. UP.

[BlazeHedgehog]

You know, guys. Concept art is allowed to be shit. That's why it's called concept art.

[Green Gibbon!]

<img src="http://www.williamstorg.com/images/mysk ... age002.jpg">

[Shadow Hog]

You want an indication of how glitchy this game is (well, okay, <b>another</b> indication)? Try jumping on a rock. I like one by a tree toward the start of the level - where you first land after that whole rail system, just prior to the first "grinding on air" segment. If you walk around slowly enough, you'll find that for some reason, you can stick to the surface, with no gravity whatsoever, even if you stop (actually, ESPECIALLY if you stop). I can actually get from that position to me, somewhat floating off the rock, completely sideways, just lying on the ground - but with the ability to wallk back onto the rock - and the game treats it as a normal situation.

Those huge rocks that are inexplicably on all the bridges and so on also act the same way, if you land on them. When you pass to the lower hemisphere, though, logic kicks back in and you fall off it. Speaking of which, if you homing attack the chunks that form when you destroy the rocks, they just disappear. No smaller chunks, no little explosions or anything (well, implosion, I guess). They just <i>disappear</i>.

On the plus side, I'm still finding alternate paths through this thing. For instance, on the first wall you can actually run along, if you run upward (for some reason there's no problem with you doing that), you can find a hidden little tunnel up there (although there's not much there). The level design's definitely improved in that aspect...

[FlashTHD]

That about cements my position. It's like they did no bug testing on this demo whatsoever. Didn't OCB say the game itself would be thrown to the hardcore japanese testers when it came time to iron things out?

[BlazeHedgehog]

Yeah, but OCB seems to be saying a lot nowadays. I still bring up his reccomendation for us to buy Monkey Ball Adventure.

[Professor Machenstein]

Wasn't he being sarcastic?