Sonic Advance 3 thoughts

Ecco · Post by **Ecco** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:29 am

So, uh, since Sonic Advance 3 is out now, I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on it were, since for some odd reason we haven't had a topic on it yet. I've played all the way to the end of the ice stage right now, and I have to say that if you had any doubts on the quality of this game when you first saw it's gameplay in action, they were all unfounded. The game is a very solid sidescrolling platformer, and it may very well be one of the best 2-D Sonic games yet, but I'll have to play farther so that I can unlock all the character before I can say that I feel this way. The stages have very good designs, full of branching paths and whatnot, and there are several ways to get the job done depending on your Team formation (though I've only been able to play with a Sonic-Tails or Tails-Sonic formation so far). They're like the Sonic Advance 2 stages in this respect, but a bit more complex and with less emphansis on speed (you can't just hold right and randomly hit the jump button and make it through the stage). I can't say for certain whether they are actually longer than those stage or if they just take longer because they aren't linear. But overall, this game features some excellent level design.

The special stages are still a pain in the ass to get into, as you have to collect 10 choa to open up the stage (three in each act and one in the hub area). Fortunately, the game saves how many chao you've collected, so when you return to the zone later, you only have to get the one's you've missed, which will probably leave you free to try the special stages at your leisure. I can't comment on the actual stages yet, though, as I have not accessed any yet. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that eash zone has a hub area, where you can access the acts and play them in any order you feel like, as well as the special stage spring and two special bonus games that can be played once each (until you get game over or finish the zone) for a few extra lives, and the game save all of your progress, so you don't have to redo any completed acts. Needless to say this makes the game less frustrating, since you can reach a boss with one life left and not have to worry about redoing the ENTIRE zone again if you die.

This is obviously a good thing, as the bosses in this game start of simple and then their difficulty goes up exponetially as the game progresses. The boss of the ice stage is extremely difficult and frustrating, especially since you're constantly in danger of falling to you death if you get hit or screw up a jump. Some stages also feature a pre-boos battle with a robot that resembles Emeral, who learns a new trick each time you fit it. Man, I shudder to think what the last boss is going to be like.

So yeah, Sonic Advance 3 is a very solid platform game. The two person formation can be though of as Sonic 3 where you actually have control of your partner and he can actually do something useful. The concept was pulled off very well, and while it's not a dire neccessity that you work with your partner and use the special moves your team has, they can make some situations less frustrating and also may grant you access to otherwise impossible to reach areas. It's definitely the best SOnic Advance title so far. Get if you haven't yet.

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:09 pm

The special stages are still a pain in the ass to get into, as you have to collect 10 Chao to open up the stage (three in each act and one in the hub area).

It varies a little from Zone to Zone. For example, one Zone may have 3 Chao in Act 1, 4 Chao in Act 2, 3 Chao in Act 3 and none in the hub. You can check how many Chao are where from the Chao section selectable at the main factory hub.

Special Stages and Special Stage access aside, it's a pretty damn good game. The partner system is a fun addition, allowing up to 20 combinations with distinct differences, unfortunately this does not allow for S3&K style character dependent exploration, and Sonic himself should've been better than he actually is in the game.

The level design is nice, even without character specific exploration. Visually it's mostly nice, but with Toy Paradise and Twinkle Snow sticking out like unfortunate sore thumbs, Cyber Track is nothing special either. For God knows whatever reason, rings are now inside robots instead of animals. The music is as you'd expect from a good Sonic game, only this time each act (and the hub) features a different mix of the Zone music.

It' justs a terrible shame that we had to wait for the third installment in the series to get a worthy game.

Hopefully the partner system will be developed further in future games, it's had so little development since its debut in Sonic 2, and Sonic Advance 3 shows that if pushed in the right direction (unlike Chaotix and Heroes) it can work well.

Owen Axel · Post by **Owen Axel** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:26 pm

Is Shadow in this one? Just wondering, what with the apparent Chaos Control plot element, n'all.

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Mon May 31, 2004 12:37 pm

I don't know if he appears in it, but I know he's not playable.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:30 pm

Shadow is never even mentioned once.

I think Sonic Advance 3 is an alright game, but... it feels poorly constructed, to me. Level design is great when it's not slamming you head-long into spikes or pits or badniks, but Sonic's default acceleration is unenjoyably slow (and as such, I pretty much just turn on a Gameshark code to give me 100 rings just so Sonic moves faster, which, in my opinion, makes the game a lot better).

Bosses are, as I believe IGN or Gamespot said, "Either too easy or way too hard", with equally thoughtless design. The Jack in the Box boss easily ranks up there as by far, the most boring and slow boss design in Sonic history, whereas the Twinkle Snow boss will make you want to take a mallet to your cartridge.

Graphics design I think is at an all time low. The only levels I really thought looked visually good were Chaos Angel and Route 99, the rest were all... I dunno, tired. Sunset Hill looks really unorganized and messy, and Twinkle Snow is just outright ugly.

Gameplay is alright, but I'm not a big fan of limit character movesets - to take Knuckles and pair him with the wrong character so you can't climb or glide (like, say, Sonic) really annoyed me. The fact that most characters cannot use their trick combos from SA2 also ticked me off too (and the main reason I stick to Sonic & Tails is simply because of that fact - tricking).

For the effort required to access the Special Stages (which, incidentally, the scavanger hunt of finding Chao THEN keys to unlock them feels more like artificial replay value than anything else), they sure do blow alot of ass. Control is sluggish, visual design is horrible.. it's perhaps the worst Special Stage in a Sonic game ever, perhaps even beating out Sonic Heroes'.

In short: I prefer Sonic Advance 2.

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:40 pm

GG!, Get started on the Sonic Advance 3 page NOW!
heheh, j/k

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:15 pm

I have the Japanese version reserved, and that doesn't come out until later this month. I prefer my Sonic games without the THQ logo.

So what are the Special Stages like, exactly? I actually kind of got to like the Special Stages in Sonic Advance 2, it was only frustrating when you had to play the whole stage again after losing. The "find the Chao" access system actually sounds like a good idea to me, exponentially less frustrating than the "find the coins and don't die" nonsense.

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:41 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:So what are the Special Stages like, exactly?

Like this:

Now it's actually POSSIBLE to get an emerald!!!

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:58 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:The "find the Chao" access system actually sounds like a good idea to me, exponentially less frustrating than the "find the coins and don't die" nonsense.

The hidden Chao system adds some nice replay value, just like the jigsaw pieces in Sonic Pocket Adventure. I don't like it to access the Special Stages though. The Special Stages should be accessable numerous times as you play along with the game, not a challenge after you've completed it.

It's about time the get 50 rings and jump in the giant ring at the goal method was returned.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:05 pm

I liked Sonic 2's method cause you usually had at least two or three tries to get the emerald per stage. Of course back in the day when you couldn't save that was kind of required if you wanted to ever be able to play as Super Sonic.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:54 pm

The Special Stages should be accessable numerous times as you play along with the game, not a challenge after you've completed it.

No way dude, who wants to get the good ending on their first time through? I've always played Special Stages as an extra challenge after I've finished the rest of the game.

Incidentally, I don't think I've ever acquired all the Emeralds in Sonic 1 without cheating.

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:14 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:Incidentally, I don't think I've ever acquired all the Emeralds in Sonic 1 without cheating.

You suck!

Ideally I'd have the Special Stages be like they were with Sonic 1, possible to get through one run, but challenging enough for it to take lots of run-throughs.

This would only work at its best though if cleared levels were only re-accessable after finishing the game, just like in Sonic 3. Thinking about it, having levels unlocked in Time Attack as you go along wouldn't be bad, as long as they didn't allow Special Stage access.

Sonic 3&K went overboard with Special Stage entrances, especially considering that the Special Stages themselves were ridiculously easy.

Sonic 2 was better, as the access points required you to have 50 rings, and the Special Stages were the right level of challenging.

I think I prefer having the Special Stages between acts though.

plasticwingsband · Post by **plasticwingsband** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:16 pm

Incidentally, I don't think I've ever acquired all the Emeralds in Sonic 1 without cheating.

I actually think that Sonic 1 is the easiest game to get all of the emeralds in. They were also pretty easy to get in Sonic 3, after you got the hang of the Special Stages. Of course, when I was younger, the Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles Special Stages seemed damn near impossible.

In Sonic 2, I've only ever gotten the Chaos Emeralds without cheating once. Unfortunately, I was playing as Tails, so my labors were in vain. Curses!

plasticwingsband · Post by **plasticwingsband** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:17 pm

Crazy Penguin wrote: It's about time the get 50 rings and jump in the giant ring at the goal method was returned.

Oh, and I second this motion.

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:18 pm

The problem with the special stages in Sonic 3&K was that you had to do them twice to get the super/big emeralds before you could actually "beat" the game. But that's just my opinion though.

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:21 pm

Spazz wrote:The problem with the special stages in Sonic 3&K was that you had to do them twice to get the super/big emeralds before you could actually "beat" the game. But that's just my opinion though.

I hate how the Super Emeralds became accessable from the beginning of Mushroom Hill, it made the game feel split in two, which is exactly what the lock-on mode was supposed to get away from.

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:27 pm

Crazy Penguin wrote:I hate how the Super Emeralds became accessable from the beginning of Mushroom Hill, it made the game feel split in two, which is exactly what the lock-on mode was supposed to get away from.

It was split in two. Sonic and Knuckles was merley an expansion of Sonic 3, making it the second half of the story. And I think the reason the emeralds were accessable in Mushroom Hill Zone was because that's where Knuckles lived, and you could then play with him once you got S&K.

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:06 pm

Spazz wrote:
Crazy Penguin wrote:I hate how the Super Emeralds became accessable from the beginning of Mushroom Hill, it made the game feel split in two, which is exactly what the lock-on mode was supposed to get away from.
It was split in two. Sonic and Knuckles was merley an expansion of Sonic 3, making it the second half of the story. And I think the reason the emeralds were accessable in Mushroom Hill Zone was because that's where Knuckles lived, and you could then play with him once you got S&K.

It goes without saying that the game got split into two, it's just sad and plain awkward that the split could still be felt even after the lock-on.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:12 pm

Now it's actually POSSIBLE to get an emerald!!!

Have you played the Special Stage for Chaos Angel? Shit, dude. They don't just start throwing spiked mines at you, they've got these bullet-bill bastards who SHOOT at you, too. It's not even funny when you get 20 rings out of over 100 for the goal.

Post by **Esrever** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:14 pm

I really enjoyed playing that leaked version from a couple of months ago, but I'm reserving my feedback until I have my actual copy of the sucker running on my actual GC. I don't know what is wrong with the local EB... they were supposed to have the game in on the 26th but they still haven't got it in!

Spazz · Post by **Spazz** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:19 pm

BlazeHedgehog wrote:
Now it's actually POSSIBLE to get an emerald!!!
Have you played the Special Stage for Chaos Angel? Shit, dude. They don't just start throwing spiked mines at you, they've got these bullet-bill bastards who SHOOT at you, too. It's not even funny when you get 20 rings out of over 100 for the goal.

Ack, sorry. I've only played the easy early ones. Didn't know they got that much harder. >_<
And I meant it's now generally easier to get an emerald for the advance series. The Sonic Advance 1 special stage was impossible (for me, at least), and the Sonic Advance 2 special stage was a little easier, but it was hard to be in control in that 3D environment. I ended up using the Game Boy Player for the Gamecube to get emeralds.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:23 pm

they were supposed to have the game in on the 26th but they still haven't got it in!

That's not too uncommon. Shipments of "lesser" games are occasionally withheld from smaller stores for sometimes as much as a week or two, even if there are reservations for the game.

Post by **Esrever** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:54 pm

Heh... well, that explains why I found it at Wal Mart this afternoon. :)

Post by **big_smile** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:59 am

Does Sonic Advance 3 link-up with the Gamecube in any way?
^_^

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:37 am

No Tiny Chao Garden anywhere at all, to my knowledge. So far the only unlockables seem to be the soundtest (whoopee) and the seven-chaos-emeralds good ending.