So, what's the deal with the Sonic comics?

aso · Post by **aso** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:12 am

The last one I really read was the Sonic Adventure 2 'adaptation', which I believe was around #98. The last comic I read before THAT was #53 or #54. The Monkey Khan thingie.

Are the comics still really, really lame, or have they gotten better? Is Spaz still doing artistry type stuff? And have they attempted to throw in weak adaptations of Sonic Heroes, Sonic Battle, Sonic Pinball Party, or any of the Sonic Advances?

Post by **G.Silver** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:56 am

Generally we refrain from discussing that travesty around here, but I'm interested in it lately since WB tricked me into subscribing. The last one I read (prior to this) was the one right after the Sonic Adventure adaptation. I'd been following the SA one for some reason, like I just wanted to see how they'd do it, or some such, and it wasn't very good, but the next issue had a really nice Spaz cover (Sonic vs Mecha Sonic, fighting game style), and was absolutely terrible, but the next issue promised Metal Sonic, but within the cover pages that time was one of the most horrible comics I've ever seen, and I was OFF the comic right then. Prior to that, my last issue was whatever it was when my original subscription ran out, starting with issue #0, and I was happy to not renew. (Actually I also got #25, but that was for Metal Sonic--powerless to resist)

So I picked up again at 131, I think, and it was pretty lame. There were some good points here and there, but pretty few and too many off-model characters in between. Then 134 rolled around which was WB's debut, and it was actually pretty impressive, with WB's awesome art and a surprising story that points, perhaps, to a new direction for the comic, and WB's assuring me that they are trying to make it as cool as they can. We can't be rid of the 100+ issues prior, but they seem to be attempting to shake it up a bit at least, so I say good for that. Issue 135-136 come around and it sucks total ass again, in ways that boggle the mind. 137 is expected to be more of the same but 138 will pick up with WB and that Karl Bollers guy (he's a writer or something else important) and we can expect awesomeness. There'll still be the fact that yes, it is the Archie comic, and you'll need some background on the characters and the scenario most likely to appreciate it, but that's what SonicHQ's achives are for. It's also the start of a four-issue sequence, all done by WB, so you know you have to get them all. :D

Oh, but that's only the MAIN story. There's also this rubbish (I sound like Dock!) set of stories being done by Ken Penders that's set 25 years in the future where nothing interesting ever happens, but at least the art is pretty decent.

My take is that the comic is in a transitional state and it (that is, the future) may be either lame or awesome. We just don't know yet.

Edit: To be fair, I should say that there are other artists from the fan community who've been recruited by Archie, but I haven't seen any issues by them and they weren't promising me personally that they were gonna kick ass.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:59 am

Yeah, I only picked the comics up again recently because of WB. Darn you, black seductress.

Rlan · Post by **Rlan** » Fri May 28, 2004 4:22 am

Eh, I've been enjoying the comics lately, to a degree. I really like the 25 year later stories, it's a bit more political and I don't mind the slow pace. That iss with Lien-Da scowling her child was well written IMO.

In comparison to the fast pace time travel they've currently done in the main comic, it's a fair bit better.

Romy Chacon [?], the writer of the current main storyline, has done some pretty good work before, but this recent one seems a bit dodgy, resurrecting a one-off character, to then find it's a robot, to then find he must be alive again? It doesn't help that there are some continuity errors whcih are probably not his/her fault, but then we don't know the full story yet. I mean, Snively shows up in the first one when it [probably] meant to be A.D.A.M, the possibility of 2 Eggmans walking around at the moment, Calling Tails 'Myles' instead of Miles etc etc.

Honestly, I blame That Gabrie fellow, the editor. He simply has not cared for anything lately, doesn't keep up, and continually makes errors [Myles, Tical] which bring down the book. Thankfully, next issue starts with a new error, who hopefully knows his stuff. He's already said no more Star Wars / Trek in-jokes, and if they mention anything from over 30-50 issues ago, there should be build up to it to actually remember it.

I'll keep buying them though. Dub, J.Axer and Dawn Best are great artists. I only wish the comic would get that special glossy colouration you see in those Transformer Comics, they're bloody fantastic in graphical design.

Are there any other comics other than Sonic which the pencilers all have completely different designs for the characters? I mean, there is the Marvel, European, Dark/Brooding and Manga styles of the past, and usually the pencilers keep directly on model, but I haven't seen any other comics which the style changes so drastically, from Dawn Best to Art Mansomethingsomething to Dub to Spaz.

The Almighty Bunghole · Fri May 28, 2004 9:52 am

I stopped collecting the comics some years ago, some time around the 80th issue I believe. They used to be a decent read, but they went downhill, so I stopped buying them. I was going to buy issue 100 for the sake of it being the centenary, but never got around to it.

Art Mansomethingsomething

Art Mawhinney is memory serves me correctly. Spaz was/is the best artist they ever had, and probably ever will have. He must be getting paid a fair amount of clams to hang around, cause I'm sure Marvel or DC wouldn't mind him on board. His art had so much detail, I almost pitied the inker.

Ryan the Game Master · Fri May 28, 2004 10:02 am

My subscription started around #89, ended at #100, continued at #101 and ended at #126. That one has Sonic fighting Super Sonic. The BEST cover the comic has ever had. I just wish they could've done more with the SA2 adaption and Shadow. That was disappointing. Sooner or later Archie is gonna run out of ideas.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:04 pm

Art Mawhinney is memory serves me correctly. Spaz was/is the best artist they ever had, and probably ever will have. He must be getting paid a fair amount of clams to hang around, cause I'm sure Marvel or DC wouldn't mind him on board. His art had so much detail, I almost pitied the inker.

Spaz has done far more than Sonic, though. He was a resident cover artist for Gamefan (and subsiquently, GameGo!, before both went belly up) and currently he is the full-time penciller of the Dreamwave Megaman Comic (last I checked, anyway). So yeah, he's not doing JUST Sonic anymore.

Axer's art is the same way, the detail. Have you seen some of the stuff on his site? It's very depressing to someone who draws to think that the human body can comprehend that much detail. It's too bad Archie doesn't give Axer more to do, he's almost Spaz's equal. Infact, anymore, the frontspiece artwork Axer does usually is alot better composed than Spaz's covers. It's almost to a point where I'd rather Axer do cover art, as Spaz's stuff feels more like he's running out of ideas on what to draw, or something.

Post by **Delphine** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:45 pm

The main problem with the comics is that whenever Penders tries to do something with them, Sega of America pulls him back.

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:30 pm

Hardly matters. Penders has a terrible habit of starting up "epic" storylines that lose 80% of their steam by the time they finally come to pass. Need I remind you of Tails isn't Tails? Or the Ultimate Enemy? It was that sort of shit that other writers eventually had to (hastily and sloppily) clean up because Penders wasn't going to.

aso · Post by **aso** » Fri May 28, 2004 2:37 pm

Okay, so the comics still suck. I can deal with that.

But this WB bloke - his art actually makes the comic tolerable, you say? Stuffs in multiple Sonic Team references? Anything along the lines of the multiple insertions of Astal, Spaz's little cover buddy?

As far as Axer goes, I chatted with him once. Seemed like a nice enough guy. Bit surprised that he got 'that' far, but Archie is relatively small potatoes for someone who apparently has a lot of talent. Perhaps when the Sonic comic meets its somewhat inevitable demise, we'll see him in a better book altogether?

Post by **Delphine** » Fri May 28, 2004 2:40 pm

BlazeHedgehog wrote:Hardly matters. Penders has a terrible habit of starting up "epic" storylines that lose 80% of their steam by the time they finally come to pass.

That's true, too, now that I think of it. Penders should let the writers write the stories.

Post by **Pepperidge** » Fri May 28, 2004 3:30 pm

I would agree that Penders IS the problem.

Biby128 · Post by **Biby128** » Fri May 28, 2004 3:54 pm

*tch* I still love the comics. It is slipping compared to how it was back in the old days. But I how everything is going so far.

daytonafathead · Post by **daytonafathead** » Fri May 28, 2004 4:08 pm

I got my first sonic comic a few years ago from a free subscription thingy from collecting enough spagetti-O's labels. I got it and read it in the bathroom. as soon as i finished, i wiped my hiney with it and regreted ever eating so many spagetti-O's just to read this terrible comic. The only other one i ever read was sonic firsts, but only because it was on sonic mega collection. unfortunatley, i wasn't going to wipe my hiney with my sonic mega collection. Ristar was on it!

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Fri May 28, 2004 4:10 pm

Dude, the comic has slipped, and fallen over. It's been a lot of "two steps forward, one step back" anymore. Just when you think, "Hey, this might not be so bad" you get an issue like 135 with the whole "he survived a fatal wound except he didn't because he's actually a robot but that means for some obscure reason that the real one is alive somewhere" thing.

I really do hope this new editor makes this comic be cool again - I already like the whole "No Star Trek/Star Wars references or injokes" rule; although there goes what was left of Pender's writing ability ;P

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Fri May 28, 2004 5:31 pm

I hate the comics because the writers inevitably can't find a balance. Either they take Sonic too seriously, or they don't take him seriously enough.

First of all, Sonic is not an epic, angsty, dark Spiderman/Batman superhero saga. You try and tell a sweeping dramatic story with brightly colored cartoon animals and you end up looking like a jackass. Leave the angsting to Shadow and let the rest of the cast get on with their lives. Sonic is not the dark avenger who carries on despite the great, tortured, pain laying heavily on his soul, and neither are his friends.

Second of all, Sonic is not a Warner Brothers character. He doesn't get hit in the face with pies, have anvils dropped on his head, or go skidding off cliffs only to plumet and be squished (well, except in Sonic Heroes). Playing the entire series as a bunch of wacky gags makes the whole thing boring and bland.

The series, back when I read it (I read up to like, Issue #80) always made one of the two above mistakes. And they would bounce back from one extreme to the other each month.

One month, you'd read it and "OMG Sonic and the Freedom Fighters are so sad! Let's go write crappy goth poetry to mourn the loss of random furry character #89".

The next month it would be "Wow! I better be careful not to drop Princess Sally's pies into this catapault! Yuk yuk yuk yuk!".

Sonic lends himself best to a Dragonball-ish (not Z) lighthearted adventure series where there is danger, but not enough to actually depress the reader, and there is humor, but not so forced that it dilutes the characters.

Does anyone else see what I'm trying to get at? *sighs*

aso · Post by **aso** » Fri May 28, 2004 6:38 pm

Oh, yes. If I'm not mistaken, the comic originally followed the 'Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog' cartoon style in terms of 'wacky comedic hijinx'. There was apparently a greater demand from the fans to follow the more 'serious' style of Saturday Morning Sonic, so the series adjusted to that. I suspect there are cavalcades of fans who want one side more than another, so the comic crew may be bouncing back and forth, trying to appease the fans on either side.

Also, correct me if I'm mistaken, but there are a shitload of echidnas around now, right? I mean, they were around through the whole Sonic Adventure adaptation, weren't they?

In the game, Knux was all by his lonesome, so the shattering of the Master Emerald/crashing down of the Floating Island affected no one but him.

What did they do about this in the comic? Were those damned fire ants still around?

BlazeHedgehog · Post by **BlazeHedgehog** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:06 am

Sonic lends himself best to a Dragonball-ish (not Z) lighthearted adventure series where there is danger, but not enough to actually depress the reader, and there is humor, but not so forced that it dilutes the characters.

Perhaps why folks consider "Mecha Madness" as the peak of the Archie Comic, as it illustrates this sort of storytelling perfectly (and matches it with Spaz's wonderful art, to boot).

Although I do like it when stuff gets down and dark and angsty near big final battles -- one reason I love Digimon Tamers is because the series starts out pretty light hearted and standard Digimon and then everything goes down the shitter and it gets pretty depressing and emotional by the final episodes, and it makes you think, "Man, this is it. It's the end of the world, is what this is."

Post by **Crazy Penguin** » Sat May 29, 2004 5:44 am

There's a new editor in, but the old guy was crap. Pushing "goofy" stories, 2/3 stories per issue, letting too many writers on, clogging the comic up with too much filler, keeping crappy much-hated artists onboard, letting continuity, grammar and spelling errors slip. The list goes on.

Penders has too much of an ego. He's too busy wanting to do his own thing rather than just write a Sonic comic. He'd rather just write about his own lameass redundent characters and a middle aged Knuckles. And damn do they just drag on and go nowhere.

Jason Jensen is a crap colourist. He constantly miscolours the most basic of things (Shadow's chest fur, Eggman's nose, Knuckles' arm) and gives everything cheapass shading effects and makes everything as shiny as possible. And he's the only colourist the comic has. I almost wept when I saw what he did to WB's art.

Romy Chacon. Tommy the Turtle/Tortoise/Twat, numerous Star Wars references, pointless "stories" that have no relevence to anything whatsoever, continuity pissups that fuck with the main plot, and just plain contrived and badly written "stories".

Ron Lim is a very good comic book artist. To this very day I find The Thanos Quest a joy to behold. Unfortunately his work on Sonic is shit on a stick, everything is angular, off model repetitive, motionless and emotionless and just plain rushed and badly drawn.

Dave Manak. Take everything that's bad about Lim's Sonic work, add in a whole new bunch of problems and multiply it by 10 and you're almost there.

2/3 stories per issue. Bullshit. This is more of an excuse to let Penders do whatever the fuck he wants. Fuck that. The backup stories are an unecessary waste of space.

There is some good though. Karl Bollers is showing a sense of direction that the comic has not had since...well, ever, and he doesn't waste his time on piss-ant fifth tier characters, but I have a feeling that editorial will fuck all of this up somehow.

Jon "WB" Gray and Jeff Axer are both fantastic interior artists. Jon Gray injects the comic with his own madcap cartoon stylings and masterful sense of motion and his love for Sonic shows in every single panel, whether it be through chequered hills, passing Flickies, or just the overall look of the characters themselves. Jeff Axer's art is very detailed but doesn't fall into the pit of giving the characters human proportions, soft spoken and beautiful.

Spaz's cover art is still good, but there's been a noticable drop in quality post-#100, with his images becoming more watered down and static. If only Jason Jensen was replaced by a good colourist we'd get the old Spaz back.

Post by Bo » Sat May 29, 2004 10:06 am

I quit reading and sold my collection off, save for a couple issues, around #72... I got WB's premier and will be getting any subsequent ones with his art, though.
Did Dave Manak have a stroke or something sometime between issues 6 and 15? He drew some of the very early comics fairly well, and then everything else was just like he was drawin with his non-dominant hand. I'd get an issue and see "Dave Manak" on the first page, and then have to go take some preventative aspirin.
I think GG!'s letters all appeared in the absolute worst issues, while we're on the subject of the comics.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Sat May 29, 2004 10:36 am

I think GG!'s letters all appeared in the absolute worst issues, while we're on the subject of the comics.

Letters? I didn't know know GG! posted multiple letters in the comic. Last time this was brought up it was mentioned that just one letter of his was posted about him praising the comic.

Me, I never really got around collecting the comics simply because my local stores stopped selling the comic by issue 12--which was over 10 years ago so I assumed it was canned. By the time I discovered that it was still going which was about '96 through info from the 'net, I wasn't into Sonic anymore(not until SA1). Also, it was at this time where I was begining to get into manga with my first love Ranma 1/2.

Maybe if I stumble upon one of Dub's issues, I may pick it up. I'm not in a rush to do so and judging by some of the responses in this thread, it looks like I'm not missing much. =P

Post by **G.Silver** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:13 pm

I actually thought the coloring in 134 was pretty decent, but I was expecting far, far worse, considering what the previous few comics I'd been reading were like. I believe the things that bugged me came down to the colorist not understanding what he was supposed to be doing (such as the shots that show the forest canopy, and the entire "rave" sequence). A bit more penciller-colorist communication could have really helped.

Post by **Delphine** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:15 pm

I remember reading at least two of GG!'s letters. There may have been more.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:21 pm

I remember reading at least two of GG!'s letters. There may have been more.

Lies. No such thing ever happened.

Post by **Delphine** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:43 pm

You sent them through snail mail and signed as Green Gibbon instead of your real name, and I'm pretty sure you used "Up, Over and Gone!" in place of "Sincerely." Or something along those lines.