The GHZ Forum

http://shoutime.tumblr.com/post/1762626 ... california

SegaSonic Bros. will be open to the public for the first time ever at California Arcade Extreme 2018. Anyone willing to make the journey?

https://twitter.com/insanedavid/status/ ... 30112?s=21

Videos are out. I am so glad that it didn't get released. It looks fun, but the brothers are horribly designed, just being recolors of Sonic. To be honest, all the arcade characters aren't that great, as even Ray and Mighty seem too much like Sonic recolors.

More videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g97fHENH9TQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBVMELPFC4Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8MDujmX_wo

This also confirms what Hardcore Gaming 101 heard about Funky Brothers being the theme song to this game.

It looks fun. If Sega still has it in their archives, I'd love to see it get released (alongside Sonic Eraser and some other rarities) one day. I'm guessing it didn't pass its location test due to the not-so-intuitive "CLOSE IT!" system. It's definitely a game where you'd need to pay attention to the tutorial demo. In an arcade environment though, games really need to be as intuitive as possible.

It reminds me quite a bit of Namco's Pac-Attack, which itself was a rebranding of their prior Cosmo Gang the Puzzle released two years before this. Not as inspired as I'd have thought from the director of Bubble Bobble. It does look decent enough for what it is.

big_smile wrote:https://twitter.com/insanedavid/status/ ... 30112?s=21

Videos are out. I am so glad that it didn't get released. It looks fun, but the brothers are horribly designed, just being recolors of Sonic. To be honest, all the arcade characters aren't that great, as even Ray and Mighty seem too much like Sonic recolors.

Your point of contention is that "Red" and "Yellow" would've been folded into canon? I don't think there was ever any chance of that happening. It's not like Sonic's exact duplicate from Eraser is kicking around anywhere. And even if they did somehow lingered on they surely would've been Luigi-ified. Though in a sense they had, being the first yeomen completing the primary color triumvirate, Sonic always the true blue.

Also, I like Mighty and Bark. They aren't as inspired as, say, Fang, but they're likable enough. Also, it's nice for us New Worlders to have a few representative endemics, lacking hedgehogs and echidnas as we do.

Crazy Penguin wrote: It looks fun. If Sega still has it in their archives, I'd love to see it get released (alongside Sonic Eraser and some other rarities) one day. I'm guessing it didn't pass its location test due to the not-so-intuitive "CLOSE IT!" system. It's definitely a game where you'd need to pay attention to the tutorial demo. In an arcade environment though, games really need to be as intuitive as possible.

They could always waltz in and take the ROM image, or buy the machine off Shou, and release it anyway. Nintendo more or less did the same with Sky Skipper recently (its history being fascinating in its own right).

Last I heard, Sega explicitly forbade Shoutime from releasing the ROM. This expo is a nice concession, but if they're going to give us anything further they might as well start by allowing an unofficial release.

Also, there was a third brother! It's totally Solar Sonic, Polar Sonic, and Electra Sonic!

What I heard is it's the seller threatening to blacklist Shou from the trader circle. Because rare game collectors are possessive types who think wild ROM images will devalue their "investments," and their authentic copies will last forever and not bitrot into worthless silicon garbage.

Shou told me in passing that he was "under extreme scrutiny by Sega for having revealed it," but that may only have been half the story. Maybe it's both. Maybe the seller was a Sega employee of some kind who got the board for him and if the ROM goes public he'll get in trouble with his employers and wouldn't be able to get Shou any more boards.

Dr. BUGMAN wrote: Your point of contention is that "Red" and "Yellow" would've been folded into canon? I don't think there was ever any chance of that happening. It's not like Sonic's exact duplicate from Eraser is kicking around anywhere. And even if they did somehow lingered on they surely would've been Luigi-ified. Though in a sense they had, being the first yeomen completing the primary color triumvirate, Sonic always the true blue.

It's not the canon that's the issue. Re-colouring Sonic to create new characters is lazy and it doesn't help that the game has very little to do with traditional Sonic and so feels like a cash-in, much like Eraser. Speaking of Eraser, I don't think the second Sonic was ever intended to be a separate character.

Dr. BUGMAN wrote: Also, I like Mighty and Bark. They aren't as inspired as, say, Fang, but they're likable enough. Also, it's nice for us New Worlders to have a few representative endemics, lacking hedgehogs and echidnas as we do.

My comments were sloppy worded as I was only referring to the System-32 arcade games. I quite like Bark and Bean. In fact, until last week I was quite fond of Ray and Mighty. My opinion changed after playing Mania Plus. The Mania team have tried their hardest to make Mighty and Ray unique. But watching the duo run around GHZ is a jarring experience as they look like those 90s era Sonic clone characters. Tails, Knuckles, Bark, Fang etc have all things to separate them from Sonic but Mighty and Ray are essentially just Sonic re-colours with bits tacked on. They should have been left as NPCs.

Yes, you are definitely correct that Red and Yellow are lazy. I just don't find it as odious as you do on account most of the big properties did recolors early on before working out more distinct supporting cast (though Tails might actually predate both Yellow and Ray?). Remember: Luigi was nothing more than a recolor before becoming what many consider their favorite Marioverse character.

big_smile wrote:I quite like Bark and Bean.

I'm lukewarm towards Bean, honestly. He feels like a retread of not only Bin and Pin, but also of Speedy. Who, granted, was of different moral alignment until Archie deleted that distinction, too. (Hullo, Jet the Hawk!)

big_smile wrote:In fact, until last week I was quite fond of Ray and Mighty. My opinion changed after playing Mania Plus. The Mania team have tried their hardest to make Mighty and Ray unique.

Yeah, that's a pity. I honestly thought the best use of Mighty would've been to make him a 1:1 clone of Sonic minus a super mode. That way people who dislike Super Sonic but like the challenge of collecting all the Chaos Emeralds have an incentive to do so. (ie, why I think lazy clones still have their place...)

I have to wonder whether the yellow and red Sonics were ever intended to be thought of as characters, if we were supposed to take the game's title literally. It's not like they're even given names or anything, and the gameplay itself has dozens of Sonics on screen at a time. It seems like the Sonic theme was a marketing driven move, and the devs would probably have left it to marketing to figure out who Red Sonic and Yellow Sonic actually are.

I'm sure Naka's team would have just ignored it. But if SegaSonic Bros. had gotten a wide release, maybe they'd have come up with a different look for Super Sonic in Sonic 2.

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:I'm lukewarm towards Bean, honestly. He feels like a retread of not only Bin and Pin, but also of Speedy. Who, granted, was of different moral alignment until Archie deleted that distinction, too. (Hullo, Jet the Hawk!)

Speedy's design was misinterpreted in the comic. He's supposed to be a white feathered rooster wearing a pointy green helmet and green body armour (much like several of the minions).

I don't think that's a distinction with much difference, really. A character's defining color can be its clothing, too.

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:Yes, you are definitely correct that Red and Yellow are lazy. I just don't find it as odious as you do on account most of the big properties did recolors early on before working out more distinct supporting cast (though Tails might actually predate both Yellow and Ray?). Remember: Luigi was nothing more than a recolor before becoming what many consider their favorite Marioverse character..

Re-colors like Luigi were from an earlier era, where hardware limitations necessitated them to reuse assets. By being on the 16-bit Mega Drive, Sonic (along with other titles) ushered in a new era where games had more freedom when it came to design. So for Brothers to go back to the earlier way of things just doesn't sit well with me.

Dr. BUGMAN wrote: I'm lukewarm towards Bean, honestly. He feels like a retread of not only Bin and Pin, but also of Speedy. Who, granted, was of different moral alignment until Archie deleted that distinction, too. (Hullo, Jet the Hawk!)

I can give Bean a pass because he is supposed to be Bin's son.

big_smile wrote: I honestly thought the best use of Mighty would've been to make him a 1:1 clone of Sonic minus a super mode. That way people who dislike Super Sonic but like the challenge of collecting all the Chaos Emeralds have an incentive to do so. (ie, why I think lazy clones still have their place...)

Mania has a separate trigger button for Super Sonic, so it's possible to collect all the Emeralds without ever transforming.

I might change my mind about Ray and Mighty when I finally beat Mania (although with the Special Stages proving so awful, I may give up before then). At the moment though, I think I'd prefer the extra characters to be kept to NPCs. Modern Sonic left a bad taste with it's extended cast and I don't want Classic Sonic to end up the same way.

big_smile wrote: I can give Bean a pass because he is supposed to be Bin's son.
.

Family resemblance is no excuse with such powerful hardware!

Well, I get the impression that Bean is supposed to be a nostalgic throw back/cameo type deal (er... If 8 years can be counted as nostalgia). But yeah, you got me there.

Apparently it's been dumped. There's a Youtube video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P45fTH7m8L8

And also a neat little thing in the music sound test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOvvCVcCvmw

big_smile wrote: And also a neat little thing in the music sound test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOvvCVcCvmw

That is so weird! And the Blue Spheres sprites are nearly identical to magnified versions of the Sonic Bros in ball form, down to the exact same colours - is that where the S3&K developers got the idea!?

The Sonic Band was hiding inside the ROM!

This is the first time we've ever seen in-game sprites of Max, Mach and Sharps. It's probably safe to assume that this is how they would have looked (finalised designs and colour schemes) in Sonic 1, had they not been cut.