Sonic in Mario the Fighters

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big_smile
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Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by big_smile »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=138MW7z ... e=youtu.be

Nintendo has released a video showing off Sonic in the next iteration of Smash Bros, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. The blue blur seems quite similar to previous outings, although Knuckles seems to be involved as well, possibly as an assist trophy.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Crazy Penguin »

Knuckles has been confirmed as an Assist Trophy - shown up a few times in gameplay videos.

Interestingly, Shadow's Assist Trophy from the previous two games hasn't shown up in any of the E3 gameplay footage. There's been a lot of speculation that Shadow will be upgraded to an "Echo Fighter" (clone character) of Sonic. He'd need a skating animation, but would otherwise be an easy addition to the roster.

Dark Samus is also speculated to be an Echo Fighter. Again, no sign of the Assist Trophy, and the Dark Samus themed colour palette has been removed from Samus' alts.

I'm expecting quite a few different Echo Fighters - they certainly wouldn't have coined the new designation just for the sake of the three characters currently confirmed (Dark Pit, Lucina and Daisy). Ken from Street Fighter would be an obvious candidate, maybe even Akuma and/or Dan if they're really pushing it. Ms. Pac-Man is another obvious one. Impa for Sheik and Hilda for Zelda. Funky Kong. Maybe Dixie Kong? (I'd prefer Donkey Kong Junior, but that's a long shot.)

I really love the design choices for the core Zelda characters. In Melee it made sense to go all-in on Ocarina of Time, and in Brawl it made sense to go with Twilight Princess (+ Toon Link), but by the time of Smash U/3DS it seemed a bit stale. Obviously they were going to pick BOTW Link for the new Smash Bros, but without an iconic version of Princess Zelda and a complete lack of human Ganondorf they couldn't pull from one game again. So I'm glad they took a "best of" approach. The A Link to the Past/A Link Between Worlds version of Princess Zelda is the most "classic" of the bunch, it set the design standard for the character. The Ocarina of Time version of Ganondorf is the most memorable and iconic, and his bipedal Ganon transformation is more in-line with the traditional version than Twilight Princess' quadrupedal version. And with Link we have the contemporary BOTW version, with its version of the green tunic and hat as an alternate - which itself was a bit of a throwback to the NES design.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

Sonic's Echo Fighter could've easily been Metal Sonic, or even Knuckles himself. Knuckles even already has a canonical Homing Attack equivalent in Maximum Heat Knuckles Attack; higher charge up, but hits multiple targets. As it is, Knuckles as an Assist Trophy would be little more than a copy of Kirby's Knuckle Joe, surely?

On the subject of ATs, I always thought Eggman would be the best candidate. Like he could have a random chance of appearing with the GHZ wrecking ball or SYZ spike (with resulting damage-inflecting terrain chunk shatter) or MZ fireball nozzle and so on.

Of course it is beyond tedious at this point to grouse about Shadow; at this point there are legal adults who never knew a time before him.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Crazy Penguin »

Apparently the Assist Trophy Knuckles burrows underground and uppercuts opponents. He also homing attacks in a Sonic-like fashion.

I feel like having Metal Sonic as an Echo Fighter would be a bit of a disservice to the character. He's still most associated with his debut in Sonic CD, where he didn't move or attack like Sonic. He didn't even spin jump until Sonic Adventure 2. Later games like Sonic 4: Episode Metal gave him all of Sonic's moves, so there is precedent, but it's not the best version of the character or what he was intended to be.

Shadow on the other hand was created for the express purpose of being able to do everything Sonic can do, it's baked into the character. Mighty the Armadillo would be a fun choice, but Smash hasn't really gone that obscure with third party characters, and Sonic Mania Plus probably wasn't even a thing when development started.

As the primary villain of the series, I'd like to see Eggman represented in some way. Bowser Jr. shows how Eggman could function as a playable character, but appearing as a boss would be fine too.

Speaking of bosses, I hope they have a proper single player adventure mode in this one. Brawl's Subspace Emissary was too drawn out and the generic locations and enemies didn't capture the fun of Smash being a crossover and tribute to Nintendo history. Melee's Adventure Mode had the right idea with a themed Mario level fighting Goombas and Koopa Troopas, a Zelda dungeon maze, an upwards-scrolling Ice Climbers level and so on. They should do that again, but with a bunch of different sets of levels, instead of just the one set Melee had.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Wooduck51 »

Village crazy here weighing in on Shadow; if he is included I dearly hope it is not as an echo fighter, because once an echo fighter always an echo fighter it seems, and in such case he should stay an assist trophy. Now if they are going to do the right thing and lift his moveset from sonic battle, I will hold a feast of celebration. There will be burgers.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

I'm still not exactly sure what constitutes an Echo Fighters (is it an exact clone with different animations? Can their stats and/or moves be tweaked slightly?), bit if Shadow and Sonic were as different as, say, Falco and Fox on Melee, I'd be cool with it.

Granted, that means that Shadow wouldn't get any unique Chaos Control-fueled special attacks, but he could at least get a Chaos Control Final Smash. If you haven't already heard, in Ultimate, there are no more Final Smashes that transform a character temporarily and allow you to control them. Super Sonic now just flies across the screen automatically in a set pattern. Just change Super Sonic's golden aura with Shadow's goopy green Chaos energy, and boom, Chaos Control Final Smash.

I'm curious, how do you feel about Ultimate's basic premise (all previous fighters in any previous Smash title are all playable, in exchange for only a handful of newcomers, at least one of which so far is known to be so much of a clone as to be considered more of an alternative skin)? I get that the devs had to deal with the ballooning roster somehow, but I can't think of anyone excited for freakin' Pichu to be back.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

I sincerely doubt Nintendo would ever deign to make more than a single play style representative from a third-party brand. A reskin/clone is about as much as you can hope for here, and be thankful for even that much.

Also, Seeing as only one of Sonic's moves superficially resembles a SB move but still functions more like a StF one, from which the vast majority of his set originates, I doubt that's a pool that they want to stick their hands in. Not that I can blame them; StF is seriously flawed but still at its heart Virtual Fighter. Sonic Battle felt like a Simple 1500 game with a lick of Sonic paint.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Brazillian Cara »

So, one of the first spirit battles in the new adventure mode (at least it was for me, no idea how much is randomized, if at all) was against Metal Sonic possessing a Sonic body. I was semi-immediately reminded of that time he decided out of nowhere that he was the real Sonic - and yes, they used the Sonic Heroes theme as the fight BGM.

On another note, one unfortunate side effect of Joker being picked as a DLC fighter is that it diminishes any chances for other characters from Sega properties.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Tsuyoshi-kun »

Brazillian Cara wrote:On another note, one unfortunate side effect of Joker being picked as a DLC fighter is that it diminishes any chances for other characters from Sega properties.
Not really. Mega Man being in the game didn't prevent Ryu from being in Smash 4 as DLC.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Jingles »

And yet Bomberman is stuck as an assist trophy while Snake prances around like he did a decade ago. I'd rather think along the lines of "Nintendo wants to minimize third-party characters!" instead of "Nobody cares about [x] being playable!", but that's probably a little naive.

I don't have the game, but I've played a few rounds of it with a friend and I'm torn on the new homing attack (you can press a button to shoot off whenever you'd like instead of having to wait for it to execute like in 4 and Brawl). I guess it gives you more control, which is a good thing, but it's kind of awkward to perform and it took me a while to realize how it worked at all. I'm not much of a Smash guy, but I'd be interested to hear more advanced players give their thoughts on it.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

Tsuyoshi-kun wrote:
Brazillian Cara wrote:On another note, one unfortunate side effect of Joker being picked as a DLC fighter is that it diminishes any chances for other characters from Sega properties.
Not really. Mega Man being in the game didn't prevent Ryu from being in Smash 4 as DLC.
Maybe, but we are, in the widest sense, up to three Sega reps by now (Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker). I can understand if this is it for Sega fighters, at least for this game.

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Re: Sonic in Mario the Fighters

Post by Brazillian Cara »

I wonder how many people learned/remembered that Banjo was a playable character in Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing after Tuesday's announcement.

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