The GHZ Forum

In addition to Sonic Mania, there is an all new 3D Sonic game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCh9--2xcKk

The trailer doesn't give much to go on, but I like the direction.

I already don't like the look of this. The trailer starts with a real Sonic '06 vibe which really is the exact opposite of what I was hoping for. Then it just feels like they throw in Classic Sonic because that gimmick worked once so it will obviously work again. I liked Generations but I wasn't that fond of it so a throwback to that game doesn't give me much hope either. The trailer just looks like a clusterfuck that looks like it's trying to appeal to the crowd that want a "darker edgier" Sonic while also appealing to the fans that liked Generations. The problem is you try too hard to please everyone then you end up pleasing no one. Of course, this is just a CG teaser with no gameplay footage. Maybe some gameplay footage and more details will make this seem more appealing.

Because it starts by mentioning Colors and Generations, I am hoping it's going to be following the direction of those games. But if they just do "Darker Sonic Generations", then it's just going to be another Shadow/Sonic 06. I'm hoping Sega has learnt from those titles not to repeat them.

big_smile wrote:Because it starts by mentioning Colors and Generations, I am hoping it's going to be following the direction of those games. But if they just do "Darker Sonic Generations", then it's just going to be another Shadow/Sonic 06. I'm hoping Sega has learnt from those titles not to repeat them.

As bad a game as '06 was, I actually liked the darker bits of the story found in Shadow and Silver's storylines. (Sonic's story and Last Episode were total garbage though) I would love a story style similar to that, but I doubt it will happen.

Not too keen on Classic Sonic appearing in the trailer. Generations was nice, but I don't want a sequel.

I was totally ready to give this a chance until Classic Sonic showed up. If they want to do a serious story, they have to drop the ridiculous time travel shenanigans. If they want to do Generations 2, they should've called it that up front. I'm down for more 16bit levels getting a face lift.

The two things I'm really optimistic about is 1) Sonic Team is giving themselves plenty of time for this game, and that 2) all signs point to this essentially being a Generations 2 in terms of gameplay. They're hopefully refining what they know already works.

That said, the tone really is all over the place. I actually really like the concept of a Sonic story taking place after Eggman takes over, but then that makes shoe-horning Classic Sonic in all the more unfitting. I know SEGA's marketing department would never approve of it, but if you want to include slower 2D platforming in your 3D Sonic game, either create a new character or use fucking Mighty or something.

I think what a lot of people are missing is that unlike Sonic 2006, the ruined city isn't a grey dystopian hellhole. The ruined buildings have pleasant pastel colours, there are still trees around - it all looks rather like Generations' City Escape.

Why would you put pastel colours and trees in an apocalyptic setting? To me it suggests that we're going to see a "good" and "bad" version of each level, much like in Sonic CD. The presence of Classic Sonic implies that time travel will play a role again.

What I can't quite figure out is the "join the resistance" bit, and the part about Sonic needing allies. That sort of thing would suggest the return of Tails and others as playable characters, so it's odd that the trailer only showed Sonic's past self.

I'm disappointed we didn't get to see or hear anything about the gameplay. I hope they disregard the additions made in Sonic Lost World and instead refine how Modern Sonic functioned in Generations. Ideally, swap out the slide for a roll, get rid of the stomp and make Sonic less stiff and car-like. Generations' controls worked well when running forwards, but not when you wanted to veer off to the sides or carefully explore the nooks and crannies. Sonic Adventure was better at that kind of thing, but was too slippery and imprecise in the rollercoastery segments that Sonic Unleashed excelled at (Sonic Adventure 2's half-pipe sections barely functioned). Hopefully they'll be able to figure out how to make it all work.

If Classic Sonic is back for purely 2D levels, I'd like for the weight and physics to be as close to the Mega Drive titles as possible. Just the standard Sonic 2 move-set, but with the occasional option of extra power-ups like the Skateboard, element shields or Wisps.

I hope they disregard the additions made in Sonic Lost World and instead refine how Modern Sonic functioned in Generations.

I do think that the Parkuor mechanics from Lost World could be implemented successfully into boost-style gameplay, especially if they didn't try to make it too unintuitive and complex. Honestly, just make it like the Wall Jump from Shadow, where you just jump towards a wall, stick to it, can run horizontally across it, and can jump again to any wall on the opposite side. Then just implement Quick Stepping to control your elevation on the wall, and you've covered all dimensions without making the controls too hectic. That could add a good layer of complexity to the (admittedly increasingly-stale) gameplay that we know Sonic Team has done right multiple times. At least it's more natural than Wall Running in Generations, where you'd hit a spring and sometimes suddenly be Wall Running.

The ruined buildings have pleasant pastel colours, there are still trees around - it all looks rather like Generations' City Escape.

I could've sworn the city in the trailer was Spagonia. But anyways, it'd be cool to revisit classic locations that a familiar but still terribly off in some way.

Sonic Adventure was better at that kind of thing, but was too slippery and imprecise in the rollercoastery segments that Sonic Unleashed excelled at (Sonic Adventure 2's half-pipe sections barely functioned). Hopefully they'll be able to figure out how to make it all work.

My ideal scenario for a Generations 2 would be having Classic Sonic doing his usual thing, Modern Sonic having gameplay based on Sonic Adventure but with physics and controls greatly refined (and maybe having to navigate at least some non-linear levels where elevation and rolling physics played a critical role being able to clear gaps and get to where you want to go), and maybe Boom Sonic taking the reigns for boost-gameplay. I even think that that division could play into your "good" and "bad" settings idea: The "good" version is the domain of boost-gameplay because obstacles and hazards are at a minimum, the "bad" version is where the more-precision Adventure platforming comes in because danger is everywhere and densely concentrated, and I guess Classic Sonic gets a "neutral" state of each level or something.

Crazy Penguin wrote:What I can't quite figure out is the "join the resistance" bit

Like you said, we're probably looking at a Bad Future trope. Eggman pulls an Aku and sends Sonic to the future, giving him plenty of time to take over the world.* Apparently Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Rouge, Chaotix, etc., are all complete failures without Sonic around, but they do manage to get the underground resistance thing going. Or they're all dead and we'll be working with the Freedom Fighters. Either way, if there's any time travel outside of the beginning and ending we'll probably have one Sonic doing the (hopefully classic) level in the past/present and one Sonic doing it in the future, with occasional crossover. But based on the way they emphasize the darker tone, we may be playing the whole game in a global Eggmanland.

*That actually doesn't jive with the teaser because why would Eggman be blowing up that city if he's already conquered the world but it's Sonic so we probably shouldn't read too much into it.

I'm guessing Eggman isn't responsible for that destroyed city bit in the trailer. That would imply him being a ballsy, competent villain, something Sega has been trying to establish he is not.

I'm thinking Eggman takes over the planet, but can't keep his robots loyal to him. They rebel and begin destroying everything. Eggman whines to Sonic to help him fix the mess he made. Metal Sonic final boss.

Modern (Heroes) and Classic (CD) versions of Metal Sonic would be awesome. I'd like to see Classic Amy in this too. I was disappointed she wasn't in Generations.

Frieza2000 wrote:*That actually doesn't jive with the teaser because why would Eggman be blowing up that city if he's already conquered the world but it's Sonic so we probably shouldn't read too much into it.

Maybe he's just doing some terraforming to expand his base/capital/theme park of doom.

What's really noteworthy is that this won't be released until the end of 2017. Sonic Lost World was released in October 2013.

Sonic Team's last 4 year Sonic gap was between Sonic & Knuckes and Sonic Adventure. And I wouldn't at all be surprised if they were working on this at the same time as Lost World (as they did with Colors and Generations). That's a really long time in development for a Sonic game.

I can't help but feel that "From the team that brought you Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations" is their way of saying "we're making an actual attempt this time guys, for real".

But yeah, I'll be cautiously looking forward to this.

Well, they did develop Runners in that time too. But honestly that was mostly recycled assets. I can't imagine them pulling much of their staff to work on that.

Frieza2000 wrote:jive

Jibe

Takashi Iizuka has taken to Facebook to again reiterate that this won't be a sequel to any Sonic title. I wonder if that means they have something different planned for they way classic and modern Sonic work.

Sonic Team's last 4 year Sonic gap was between Sonic & Knuckes and Sonic Adventure. And I wouldn't at all be surprised if they were working on this at the same time as Lost World (as they did with Colors and Generations). That's a really long time in development for a Sonic game.

I wonder if they had some scrapped Sonic games in between Lost World and this new game.

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:Jibe

You have my sincere gratitude.

big_smile wrote:I wonder if they had some scrapped Sonic games in between Lost World and this new game.

DAMMIT SMILE, LET THE PEOPLE HAVE THEIR HOPE.

I want to be hopeful. But this is the same team whose solution to fixing an excellent mobile game was to... shut it down.
Although if they did scrap a game between Lost World and Project 2017, then that is a big improvement, as the Sonic Team of old had no problems releasing half baked games.

I'm going to give 'em a break on this. I have faith in Sega's new management. It's time for me to stop being so cynical.

Malchik wrote:I'm going to give 'em a break on this. I have faith in Sega's new management. It's time for me to stop being so cynical.

It's gonna suck.

big_smile wrote:I want to be hopeful. But this is the same team whose solution to fixing an excellent mobile game was to... shut it down.
Although if they did scrap a game between Lost World and Project 2017, then that is a big improvement, as the Sonic Team of old had no problems releasing half baked games.

I'm not sure it's fair to pin the botched handling of Runners on ST. I can easily envision corporate meddling or business-model issues (or both) putting the kibosh on the game regardless of how the team felt about it as a project.

I'm withholding any judgment on P17 until we see a trailer as fleshed-out as Maina's. But from a product-rollout perspective, holding off on showing more of the former will likely help the latter maintain media attention. Without a platform to call their own, Sonic games probably individually stand a better chance of achieving high visibility if they aren't pitted against one another in a needless and likely self-defeating competition for exposure.

Iizuka made these comments are a Sonic Cafe event which were posted on Sonic Retro:

is PR2017 made from the same thread of Generations?
No, they are different. PR2017 is similarly planned to include classic 2D and modern 3D stages. However, in addition to that there will be a new component.

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/7 ... 6377270272
https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/7 ... 0269685760

We have plans to introduce a completely new character in Project 2017.

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/7 ... 4317194240

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I always get nervous when Sonic Team try something "new"* because it usually ends up being bad. After how disappointing Lost World ended up being, I kind of wish they would just make Generations 2 (as long as they didn't re-use any stage types that were in Generations 1).

*By new I mean like a new game play style. I don't mind new level themes.

big_smile wrote:

We have plans to introduce a completely new character in Project 2017.

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/7 ... 4317194240

At last, they finally accepted my submitted fan character "Ziggy Star-nose"!

We have plans to introduce a completely new character in Project 2017.

*klaxons wail*

The game is called Sonic Forces. Full livestream here, just gameplay here (boosting is back), theme song here.

I think it looks OK from that 20-odd seconds of choppy off-screen footage, but the level design is pretty bland. Apparently we're getting some more footage tomorrow. The music sounds like the soundtrack to an anime I want to watch.