Sonic 2017

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Wooduck51
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Wooduck51 »

Gaz wrote:So, what could save this game and make it more appealing?

Playable Shadow the Hedgehog.

I wonder if he'll have his guns again.

Oh please, let me have a flicker of hope; after Shadow is broken free of the mind control and/or the lie of resurrecting Maria that is being leveraged by Original the Character, let me imagine that I get some actually functional and fun Shadow gameplay that makes interesting or good use of his chaos abilities.

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G.Silver
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by G.Silver »

Sort of tangential here, but this article about how they probably will never make a Sonic Adventure 3:

https://www.polygon.com/2017/9/19/16333 ... ver-happen
Iizuka wrote:From the developer standpoint, every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and that’s dictated where the Sonic series has been going.
If we can get the gameplay to evolve and get to a place where Adventure 3 makes sense, then you might see an Adventure 3 come out. But we don’t want to take the entire series back to where it was just make people happy. We want to advance the idea of what a Sonic game is.
The issue of course is not that they will never make a Sonic Adventure 3, and the smart answer would have been to say that the elements they would have put into a new Sonic Adventure found their way into other games like Sonic Unleashed and Sonic 2006. My issue is that, as I've long suspected, they view the "progression" that we've seen since the first Sonic Adventure as a good thing and to go back and try to suss out exactly what it is that people like about Sonic Adventure and build from there is not something they see any value in. It seems ludicrous that he ever said this in the first place, but it kind of explains that time when he said that Sonic Mania had to come from outside Sonic Team, because they didn't really have the "know-how" to do that anymore, evidenced 1. by every 2D Sonic game since 1995, but especially Sonic 4 and the 2D sections of games like Sonic Generations and Sonic Forces, and 2. these new statements, strongly suggesting that they view looking back at earlier work for inspiration to be backwards and unproductive.

There's something to be said for not looking backwards but on the other hand, Nintendo has it down to an art (if not a fault) and there's no question about which company puts out better products.

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Wombatwarlord777
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

G.Silver wrote:There's something to be said for not looking backwards but on the other hand, Nintendo has it down to an art (if not a fault) and there's no question about which company puts out better products.
You honestly have to wonder, though, how much more mileage they can get out of the overriding boost mechanic. It's exhilarating but is also pretty shallow, so I'm not really surprised that there have been substantially no innovations to it since Colors, just alternative gameplay styles.

After Forces is wrapped up, I honestly wish they'd seriously tinker with Lost World's gameplay. As unrefined as it was, I there were some ideas there worth reexamining, especially the whole parkour system and the ability to shift from a leisurely to fast pace (can you imagine a game where we could have the control and freedom of Adventure 1 and the ultra-refined and exhilarating boost of Generations and be able to freely switch between the two control schemes at will?!)

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Frieza2000
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Frieza2000 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIO4uO7awg

So Forces is basically Sonic Epoch. Robotnik creates a super soldier (in Epoch it's a metal Sonic with a force field; in Forces it's apparently Fuhrer King Bradley), it beats Sonic, a freak accident launches Sonic into the bad future where Robotnik has taken over, he jump-starts a small rebellion, thwarts Robotnik's ultimate plan to crush what's left of the heroes, discovers the true identity of the soldier (in Epoch it's Sonic's roboticized father; Infinite is probably related to Tails), finds a way to defeat him, gets back to the past, and defeats him again in the past using information learned from the future. The main difference is that Epoch was a SatAM game, which was already a dystopian nightmare with a rebellion, so its bad future involved most of the rebellion being dead or roboticized, while Forces just jumps to the position SatAM started at.

It's actually a neat premise, and the trailer makes it look like a competent action movie. It's not really what I want from a Sonic game, but it would be a cool little side story if not for...well, the people making it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr1HBT0zzYc

Remix of Supporting Me :PY:. It's not a good one though, and it doesn't suit a level at all. Also, Shadow appears to have a homing attack that automatically chains through enemies like the Light Speed Dash does with rings. I wonder if Sonic does the same thing.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

https://kotaku.com/sonic-the-hedgehog-i ... 1818685633
^ In Japan, Sega is joining forces with Hooters to promote the game.


---

Interestingly, in the UK retailers are already starting to discount Forces. It's not uncommon for Sonic games to receive reductions, but it usually happens a few months after release. I can't remember a Sonic game being reduced so quickly.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

G.Silver wrote: There's something to be said for not looking backwards but on the other hand, Nintendo has it down to an art (if not a fault) and there's no question about which company puts out better products.
I think the problem is that historically Sonic Team have only done a superficial job of adding new ideas.

In Adventure to Unleashed, adding new elements consisted of tacking on new play styles which barely had any connection to the core Sonic experience. In those titles, the Sonic gameplay was left unchanged, other than being streamlined to be faster, which exacerbated the weak points of the Adventure games. It was like Sonic Team were less interested in developing Sonic and more concerned with following the ill-informed suggestions of focus groups.

Sonic Colors was the first time they tried to actual doing something new with Sonic. It worked in that game, but mainly because the color powers provided a means to restore the classic platforming elements that they had discarded after Adventure.

Lost World was a bolder reworking. The first stage was mostly excellent, but then it felt like they ran out of budget, as they quickly reverted back to their old methods, which rendered the new control scheme pointless.

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Jingles
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Jingles »

big_smile wrote:https://kotaku.com/sonic-the-hedgehog-i ... 1818685633
^ In Japan, Sega is joining forces with Hooters to promote the game.
I just want to make it clear that I am 100% for this idea and can't wait to see how it pans out for them.

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Wombatwarlord777
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Re: Sonic 2017

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIO4uO7awg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr1HBT0zzYc

Remix of Supporting Me :PY:. It's not a good one though, and it doesn't suit a level at all. Also, Shadow appears to have a homing attack that automatically chains through enemies like the Light Speed Dash does with rings. I wonder if Sonic does the same thing.
Also, Shadow the Hedgehog doesn't fit the level showcased in that clip. Apparently Episode Shadow consists of just three levels, and one of them Green Hill again. Even in its state as an environmental wreck, it just comes across as too bright and cheerful to seem suited for him (and it also feels lazy seeing as how it's no different from the Avatar's run through the area). Could you not have Shadow running through Park Avenue or (preferably) a new area altogether? Hell, just changing the time of day in Green Hill to night or sunset would make me shut up about this.

More generally, how is this the general state of the game so far?! Why does everything showcased look so shallow? The level design for both Modern and Classic Sonic is linear and overly simplified, even compared to Generations. And the Wispons are a good concept, but they make combat even more of a joke and highlight how the enemies in the game are just intended to be destroyed while standing in neat, stationary formations. Are we really to believe that Eggman took over the world with that army?

I realize that I'm raving at this point, but seriously, what the hell happened? Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric was god-awful, but at least I thought that, in the long run, it would afford Sonic Team more time to make a truly great game. And after four years, this is the result? More and more, I'm thinking that Sonic Team has to struggle with budgetary issues that never really plague, say, Nintendo's first-party developers, or really are generally incompetent (or at least their leadership and / or the execs above them are).
https://kotaku.com/sonic-the-hedgehog-i ... 1818685633
^ In Japan, Sega is joining forces with Hooters to promote the game.
Great, that doesn't reinforce the fandom's stereotype as a bunch of socially-inept losers or anything. *bites into another chicken wing, angrily orders another beer*

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Jingles
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Jingles »

They should dress the girls up in those Sonic costumes, but have it wear the Hooters uniform.
Wombatwarlord777 wrote: More and more, I'm thinking that Sonic Team has to struggle with budgetary issues that never really plague, say, Nintendo's first-party developers, or really are generally incompetent (or at least their leadership and / or the execs above them are).
I think what may be happening is that Sonic is losing relevancy to Sega's other properties.

Sega has been putting out loads of great, good-selling games this year, and they've got plenty of big names to bank on: Persona, Puyo Puyo, Project Diva, Valkyria Chronicles, Yakuza, Football Manager, etc. Combine that with Sonic's negative brand image (most people only care about the Twitter page, these days), and maybe they think the franchise just doesn't stack up, so they don't allocate it sufficient resources.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

New Sonic Forces stage

I don't know, it might just be the lighting, but the juxtaposition of dark jungle ruins with bright shiny casino aesthetics just isn't doing it for me. Instead of complimenting each other, they make each other stick out like sore thumbs, almost as if the contrast between the two is too great. I have a feeling the level graphics here were a novel idea that was never quite implemented right.

Also, goddamn, this level looks barren.

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big_smile
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/ ... world.aspx

^New interview. You won't be able to re-collect rings when hit. Apparently it's proving unpopular with visitors at demo booths so Sonic Team are reconsidering it.

Is it the first game to do this? I thought that's how it worked in Unleashed (although I might be confusing it with one of the storybook games).

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Jingles
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Jingles »

big_smile wrote:You won't be able to re-collect rings when hit.
So that's what the custom Hedgehog's special ability does. I was genuinely confused!

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Tsuyoshi-kun »

big_smile wrote:http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/ ... world.aspx

^New interview. You won't be able to re-collect rings when hit. Apparently it's proving unpopular with visitors at demo booths so Sonic Team are reconsidering it.

Is it the first game to do this? I thought that's how it worked in Unleashed (although I might be confusing it with one of the storybook games).
Sonic 1 on Master System / Game Gear didn't let you recollect rings, either. And in Sonic Labyrinth you only got to bring a single ring for damage to boss fights (the rest of the game works on a timer, and you lose time instead when touching an enemy/spike), and you lost it forever after getting hit. Those are the only other games I can think of off the top of my head.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/stat ... 84/photo/1

Sega has made an official 4 part digital comic to promote Forces. It's written by Ian Flynn.

Ian previously stated he was involved with Forces. Hopefully he's had a hand in the game script and hasn't been limited to this comic.

(I actually haven't read any of the Archie stuff, but I often see fans of the comic say good things about Flynn's abilities.)

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by cjmcray »

Ian Flynn hinting on Twitter that Bean the Dynamite wjll be in Forces.. Also something about Sonic Boom..

Hmmm..

https://mobile.twitter.com/IanFlynnBKC/ ... 9867149312

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Crazy Penguin »

cjmcray wrote:Ian Flynn hinting on Twitter that Bean the Dynamite wjll be in Forces.. Also something about Sonic Boom..

Hmmm..

https://mobile.twitter.com/IanFlynnBKC/ ... 9867149312
You've taken that tweet out of context. He was giving clues for an easter egg he'd put in the comic. The bomb the heroes used had Bean's colour scheme - green, yellow and red.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

Reading just Flynn's post really makes it seem like Bean is going to be a character who is integral to the story of that issue. It's only if you scroll down afterwards that people spoil that it is actually a bomb.

Still, that's quite a clever and subtle little reference!

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Re: Sonic 2017

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Jingles
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Jingles »

Hey, that new comic the Twitter account posted just confirmed Mania and Forces are linked by the Phantom Ruby.

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big_smile
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch ... se_switch/
^ Demo's out on Japanese Switch store.

Apparently it contains 3 levels which you can play for a whole 20 seconds. I hope that's just a marketing snafu and not because they have something to hide.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Frieza2000 »

Probably just lazy programming. I could be easier to shove in a timer script than to go and change the end-of-level sequence to boot you to the menu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdCQ1Ufu3LE

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Jingles
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Jingles »

The full game has been leaked, and spoilers are abound. Be careful out there.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

I'd make a separate spoiler thread, but I don't think anyone here is really going to discuss it. If you are, please use spoiler tags. If there's lots of spoiler content posted, I'll make a separate thread.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by chriscaffee »

Well, they took the story in a direction I wasn't expecting. So...does that mean Sonic Mania was just an illusion? Or parts of it? Also, great continuity with Tails being completely helpless against some basic badniks. Maybe the Adventure games are in the same alternate dimension as classic Sonic. I'm okay with that.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

Gotta say, Forces's story is meh but I increasingly love the Phantom Ruby as a story element. It really does contrast nicely with the Chaos Emeralds as an "antagonistic" magic rock. Plus, it fits Eggman and how he often relies on displays of power rather than actually exercising power to get what he wants.

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