Sonic 2017

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gr4yJ4Y
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by gr4yJ4Y »

The gameplay footage looks like regular 3D Sonic, like a homemade level for Generations on PC. It's too little and too blury to judge yet, but I've been really hankering for more of Generations-style gameplay so it sounds good so far. But yeah that level design is nothing we haven't seen before.

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big_smile
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

The Sonic Forces theme music is awesome! However, the game producer is Shin Nakamura whose CV contains all the B-List Sonic titles including Sonic 2006, Secret Rings and Unleashed and Black Knight. All those titles tend to be stuffed with too many ideas, but very little thought in the execution of said ideas (although to be fair, he wasn’t the lead figure in all those games).

The actual gameplay footage seems to be Modern Sonic from Generations with explosions. That’s not a bad thing, as although it had flaws, I liked the modern sections of Generations. However, since it’s been four years since the last proper Sonic game, I was expecting something a bit more… innovative. Even wider routes that allowed for more exploration would have added some freshness. (Although the panel said that the new game will have a focus on platforming).

Also, the mix of the cute buildings against the post apocalyptic future is jarring and the doomsday theme will get stale quickly if it is used for every stage.

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Neo
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Neo »

Sonic Mania is going to sell like hotcakes, Sonic Forces is going to tank hard, Iizuka will finally be ousted and Sonic Team will officially be relocated to Australia.

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Jingles
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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Jingles »

Neo wrote:Sonic Team will officially be relocated to Australia.
They should relocate the voice actors, too. "Croikey, gotta jet, ya cants!"

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

big_smile wrote:Also, the mix of the cute buildings against the post apocalyptic future is jarring and the doomsday theme will get stale quickly if it is used for every stage.
Image

That's not the worst of it! The terrain that the town itself is built on is very stylized and wouldn't look out of place in the cutesy aesthetic of Sonic: Lost World.

And while the cheery cityscape getting decimated by over-the-top destruction is a nice contrast, and is an effective way to show that Eggman now reigns supreme, I do agree that the post-apocalyptic look would get boring after a while.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

I wish they had used Green Hill Zone and not some generic city. Imagine speeding through one of the loop-de-loops only for it to be blasted into crumbling cubes and then immediately seeing those iconic totem poles burn down to ash. Then a palm tree falls and the nest of Flickies inside of it get hit by a laser, which transforms them into Eggman robots. It would have more emotional impact. Plus, GHZ has been reused far too many times, so seeing it burn would be a dramatic twist.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

big_smile wrote:However, the game producer is Shin Nakamura whose CV contains all the B-List Sonic titles including Sonic 2006, Secret Rings and Unleashed and Black Knight. All those titles tend to be stuffed with too many ideas, but very little thought in the execution of said ideas (although to be fair, he wasn’t the lead figure in all those games).
Sonic Feces

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by cjmcray »

big_smile wrote:I wish they had used Green Hill Zone and not some generic city. Imagine speeding through one of the loop-de-loops only for it to be blasted into crumbling cubes and then immediately seeing those iconic totem poles burn down to ash. Then a palm tree falls and the nest of Flickies inside of it get hit by a laser, which transforms them into Eggman robots. It would have more emotional impact. Plus, GHZ has been reused far too many times, so seeing it burn would be a dramatic twist.
This idea is brillant. With no context to what's going on I'm really not feeling any sense of excitement for this game. With Heroes, I was interested in what Metal's role would be, with Adventure 2, I wanted to know who Shadow and 'GUN' were. With Unleashed, I was curious to see what effect being a 'Werehog' would be on Sonic's personality and his relationships with his friends.

But here, it's just: 'things are exploding, Sonic is running' whoopie.

As much as 2006 was an awful game, I liked the attempt at being in a realistic world. Crisis City looked stunning. I would rather see an anime-styled take on Sonic like in the early 00's. I don't care for this Colors/Generations/Lost World direction the series has gone in.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Jingles »

cjmcray wrote:I would rather see an anime-styled take on Sonic like in the early 00's.
If I could quote this a hundred times (without getting banned), I would. I know a lot of people like the direction the '10s Sonic plots have gone in, and I don't really hate any of the new stories (Generations was pretty lame), but I think we've had enough of that for now.

You know, watching the cutscenes of Colours and Lost World in Japanese really showed me how poor the American writers are. The Jap VAs add so much more personality to the characters (the Deadly Six are downright tolerable!) and the scripts are chock-full of cute touches, even though they're confined to the original framework. Jokes like Sonic refusing to pay 500 yen to ride the ferris wheel boss in Colours and Zazz yelling out "GO TO HERRU!" and "KIRR SONIKKU!" in Lost World made me laugh way more than anything that Pontac guy has cooked up in the past seven years he's been on the franchise. I'd recommend checking them out for yourself.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Frieza2000 »

big_smile wrote:I wish they had used Green Hill Zone and not some generic city.
Wouldn't it be neat if every zone was a destroyed/mechanized/eggified version of a classic zone? Then it really would be Generations 2, except instead of porting retro zones into 3D they'd be porting retro zones into 3D and ruining them!

A game made up entirely of Bad Future versions of brand new zones would not be as bad as it sounds, or at least it shouldn't. With Eggman's eccentric taste in decor, you'd get some entertaining ideas. In Sonic CD he just rapes the hell out of Little Planet to get the resources he needs to take over the real planet, but his other creations are generally more entertaining and not always mechanical. Rather than bulldoze everything, he usually takes what's there and molds it into his own image. He's used existing ruins as a base several times; one obscure example is turning South Island's colorful ruins into Sleeping Egg Zone, where he added full-body reliefs of himself everywhere. He didn't have a lot of time to settle into Angel Island, but presumably he'd had SA2's Hidden Base/Pyramid Cave for a while and chose to keep its original Egyptian theme (adding his own face everywhere, of course). Even his fully fabricated bases have variety. He's dabbled in steam punk in Metropolis Zone, industrial in Oil Ocean and Secret Base, urban in Starlight and Gigalopolis, mad scientist in Gene Gadget, colorful high-tech in Cosmic Angel, cyber punk in Techno Base and Cyber Track, and whatever you want to call things like Crystal Egg, Death Egg, Egg Rocket, and Ocean Base. He's made some pretty ridiculous death traps in the likes of Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic Gameworld, Sonic Spinball, and Sonic Colors, but this kind of silliness isn't limited to things designed specifically to torture Sonic. On the far end of absurd we have Neutrogic High Zone, Cryptic Castle, Circus Park, and Eggmanland. He may also have build Casino Night, Music Plant, Toy Kingdom, and Hang Castle/Mystic Mansion. He also seems to enjoy hosting races (or just trying to best Sonic, since he prides himself on speed), so we'd probably see something like, I don't know, the entirety of Flicky Island turned into a giant race track.

In short, a world ruled by Eggman would not be visually boring. If Sonic Forces is made up of 10 variations on Crisis City then Sonic Team has failed utterly.
Jingles wrote:Jokes like Sonic refusing to pay 500 yen to ride the ferris wheel boss in Colours and Zazz yelling out "GO TO HERRU!" and "KIRR SONIKKU!"
Wow, talk about a reversal of roles. I don't think I've ever heard of a Japanese localization improving on an English work.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Neo »

Frieza2000 wrote:Then it really would be Generations 2, except instead of porting retro zones into 3D they'd be porting retro zones into 3D and ruining them!
So, Generations then.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

It's by no means a good movie, but I thought DreamWorks' Over the Hedge's depiction of suburbia as sprawling, uniform and sterile ever-encroaching wasteland was rather inspired.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

From Famitsu:

-The third character in Forces will be an “unexpected character”. Sonic Boom Sonic is NOT in the game. However, the third character “plays an important role in the story, and embodies the overall features of the game”.
-“The boost system from Sonic Unleashed is present, as well as stages based on reaching the goal and clearing them a certain time limit also seem to be present.”
-“Classic Sonic stages are based on side scrolling 2D action.” Apparently, they will also have a twist.
-Sonic Forces will be at E3 this year.
-Sonic Forces’ story summary from the magazine: “Dr. Eggman took over 99% of the world. Sonic and the “Resistance” members are fighting. Then another Sonic appears…” It then talks about Classic Sonic appearing, Classic and Modern being two different style, and then there being a third one.
-Morio Kishimoto is the director of Sonic Forces. He designed Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Sonic Colors. He also directed Sonic Lost World.
-Sonic Forces has been in development since 2013, and started around Sonic Lost World’s release.
-“Forces was chosen as a subtitle from it meaning “power” and “army”. Two strong forces (Sonic and co vs. Eggman) are facing off in the game.”
-“This time, Sonic is fighting an Eggman who has nearly taken over the world.”
-2017, with the release of Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania, is a “continuation” of Sonic’s 25th anniversary.
-The game won’t be all dark and gloomy. There are some lighter stages in Forces.

http://www.tssznews.com/2017/04/12/fami ... interview/

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by cjmcray »

I am guessing the third character will be an older Sonic from the future who has been battling Eggman's forces for years in a ruined Earth..

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

Nintendo Direct briefly showed off some gameplay footage.

Here is a GIF of the footage from Atendega of Sonic Retro:
https://gfycat.com/CoordinatedFeminineDunlin

A teaser of the 3rd character (From Violet on Sonic Retro):
http://i.imgur.com/fxdoXU7.jpg

Another teaser (Sorry, I don't know who took this!)
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/201 ... easing.png

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

So far, I think it's horrible. The classic Sonic in GHZ looks indistinguishable from Generations 1, other than the sand which is barely noticeable. I don't mind them doing GHZ again, but they could at least make it different.
This feels like they cut and paste GHZ from G1 with that sand stage from Lost World, much like the city stage feels like a cut and paste from Unleashed and Lost World.
How has this been in development since 2013?

Then they've gone back to dash pads.

The problem with Forces is that the focus feels so muddled. On the one hand it's trying to be Generations. But it's also trying not to be Generations by having the 3rd character and the "dark" setting.

After Lost World and Boom, I can understand that Sega want to play it safe. But I wish they had just done a proper Generations 2. I'm sure most complaints about the repetition would have gone when people saw classic stages like Mystic Cave and Wacky Work Bench come back. They could have released Generations 2 in 2016 and then done a brand new nostalgic-free game in 2018/2019.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:
Sonic Feces
I'm sorry, fellows, I jumped the gun. If the hints of a character creator are true, then its sobriquet can only be....

Sonic ForeSkins

Spread the word. Proclaim from the tallest hills and buildings. Remember to use your diaphragm.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Frieza2000 »

big_smile wrote:A teaser of the 3rd character (From Violet on Sonic Retro):
http://i.imgur.com/fxdoXU7.jpg
The lovechild of Silver and Blaze? Or Big and Cream? It doesn't have a shirt, so it's not female.
Dr. BUGMAN wrote:character creator
I think at that point we will have definitively moved into self parody.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Neo »

Frieza2000 wrote:It doesn't have a shirt, so it's not female.
Image

Man, remember when this was acceptable?

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Frieza2000 »

I was originally going to say "it can't be Sally because it doesn't have a shirt and surely they wouldn't revert to this design:"

Image

I'm still expecting to hear the word Freedom Fighter at some point. I know it's SoJ, but the setting is just so spot-on that it's hard to imagine them not giving it some kind of nod.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1wYD5b4VUw

^ Another video. So it seems the water in GHZ has been replaced with sand for some reason. Some have guessed that maybe this is GHZ in decay and so all the water has dried up, but I don't think so as the sand falls like water. The enemy bots have all been redesigned slightly so they look awful. I assume that wasn't the intention, but then the music is just as bad as well, so maybe the goal is to make an off-putting game.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Jingles »

Getting total Sonic 4 vibes from that footage. It's all there - tinny music trying way too hard to evoke the MD sound chip (the melody isn't bad, but the instruments sure are), reliance on a single stage element in lieu of actual platforming (this time it's springs instead of homing attack chains), flat level design with a few loops thrown in haphazardly, and a heavy, sluggish Sonic that animates too slowly and loses all momentum the second he touches an enemy. Yuck.

I actually kinda like the idea of a GHZ/desert mashup, as I really enjoy desert themes, but all the sand and stuff is in the background! Let me run around on that shit, why don't you.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

The real kicker thematically is, they want to have their cake and eat it too. They don't have the cajones to do what Nintendo did to SMB 1-1 in Smash Bros and make it a desolate wasteland. They don't take the other logical conclusion and make it a desert oasis. It's pitiful that I'm more intrigued by the scenery of Flying Carpet than this.

Or hell, there're totem poles in GHZ, yeah? Have it take place in a semi-arid area inspired by Hohokam settlement. There's a wealth of inspiration to be found is tattered secondhand books and yet Sonic Team doesn't have the wherewithal to go even that far; how does iizuka collect a paycheck.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by Frieza2000 »

0:33 - They felt the need to label every single death pit with an X. I appreciate that it's blended as part of the background, but come on.

It almost looks like GHZ was teleported into the middle of a desert. With a few nearby exceptions, the chunk of land you run on is the only one with grass and trees. The rock spires jutting out of the sand aren't checkered either; they look like Arizona red rock. And now I'm having Obduction flashbacks.

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Re: Sonic 2017

Post by big_smile »

So according to the Sega Youtube description, the sand has been caused by Eggman:
Classic Sonic discovers Green Hill Zone is looking more dry and sandy under Eggman's rule, from the heavy desertification caused by his industries.
I get that they couldn't have every stage be a fiery inferno like the Modern Sonic town stage, because that would get repetitive fast. But surely they could do more than just swap out the water with sand. At the very least, that sand should be blowing into the main area and impacting the landscape. And as Sonic progresses through the stage, some of the lush green plants should have withered due to the lack of water.

Taking it further, Eggman's bots could be mowing the grass, putting up scaffolding to build the next factory and carving their master's face into the totem poles. That Wood Chopper bot from Mushroom Hill should be removing the palm trees. It would be awesome to start in regular GHZ but then, as Sonic progresses through the stage, it ends up looking very different because of all the construction work (a bit like a tamer Planet Wisp or the bad future of Palm Tree panic). If the player takes out all the bots, then their construction is interrupted, so the final part of the stage isn't too radically changed (although of course all their machinery is left behind so it still looks somewhat different). Otherwise, if the bots are undefeated then by the time Sonic reaches the end, a new factory is erected in the background, changing the atmosphere of the stage.

There's so much they could do with the concept. Just swapping out the water with sand is lazy.

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