New Sonic game for 2015

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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby big_smile » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:50 pm

Frieza2000 wrote:I applaud them expanding Amy's character into something more than Sonic's groupie, though (as one of a cast of 4 they kind of had to). I always thought it was a waste that all of her "I need to be more independent" stuff at the end of SA1 was immediately forgotten. But after having stalker Amy for all of these years, I wonder if it'll feel like the same character.


Am I the only one that likes Amy? Many females in kids properties are girl power stereotypes. Girl power was refreshing in the 90s, but the underlying message has become "women are perfect and can do everything and achieve all their dreams". (And there's often an unintentional message of "Men are incompetent, but that's okay, because they are men").

Amy plays around with stereotypes. She started as a Princess Peach clone, but she isn't a reward for Sonic, as Sonic can't stand her. Plus unlike Peach, she doesn't wait to be kidnapped, it happens while she is actively pursuing Sonic.

From Sonic Adventure onwards, she is often seen rescuing Sonic. In many games, it's not clear who is kidnapped and who is the recuser (e.g. In SA, Amy saves Sonic from Gamma while in S2k6 her actions bring Silver to Sonic but then she saves him).

Amy is neat because she's not perfect, she can't do everything, and no matter how hard she tries, she'll never achieve her dreams. But it doesn't seem bother her or lower her confidence or resolve. (She doesn't even try dressing up for Sonic, instead she expects him to change for her).

I am glad they retired her during Sonic Colours, as she ran out of steam (especially as her later appearances were just rehashes of the same gags). But I don't want her to be reworked. She actually did become independent after SA as in every game since, she usually chases Sonic by herself, often getting into heavy guarded locations (e.g. the prisons in SA2) without any help (in contrast to Sonic, who relies on Tails). There's also a sense that her infatuation is partly an excuse for adventuring.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Malchik » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:03 pm

Making Amy an archeologist just feels like them over compensating for today's tumblr audience.

I guess Ken doesn't want to have his privilege checked.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Frieza2000 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:02 pm

big_smile wrote:There's also a sense that her infatuation is partly an excuse for adventuring.

That's stretching it - I think her adventuring and learning to fight are purely ways of getting closer to Sonic - but everything else you said is pretty insightful. I never looked at her that way. You're right; she is independent. I was thinking more of the line that came right after...ok, it's actually way after that part, but this: "Just watch me. I'll make that Sonic respect me! And by that time it's gonna be too late!" That 'too late' makes it sounds like she's almost getting over him. Now I wouldn't want them to go THAT far; having a crush on Sonic is her original defining trait. But I would rather they had not gone the complete opposite direction. She was fine in SA2, if a little whiny, even following up on her resolution at the end of SA1 to earn Sonic's respect by rescuing him. But, like everyone else, from Heroes through Colors she became a caricature of herself. Instead of having a fangirlish crush she becomes totally obsessed with him.

In Sonic CD she was a fortune teller who read in the cards that Sonic and she were destined for one another (which may be the reason she never seems to get discouraged by his rejection). Between then and the events of SA1 she'd carved out some kind of a life for herself in Station Square. The people there all knew her; perhaps she had a social life. She hadn't seen Sonic in years. But ever since that city got leveled by Chaos (this is the first time it's ever dawned on me that Amy's home was destroyed at the end of SA1), she's done nothing, as far as we've been led to believe, but pursue Sonic night and day. As you mentioned, she eventually degenerated into a meme of getting angry at Sonic for being insensitive and chasing him with an anime hammer.

Seeing Amy and Knuckles return as playable characters is the only thing I'm unreservedly positive about. I like having Amy in some of the games...theoretically. She's been nothing but annoying for so long that it's hard to say I don't hate her. If the writing were just more subtle I don't think that I would. I don't want to see her turn into a different caricature like "girl power" or anything, but any change that involves toning down on her OCD or at least having more than one obvious dimension is welcome.

(Amy saves Gamma from Sonic, not the other way around. Even in Gamma's story the scene after the fight opens without any indication that Sonic is even winded)
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Dr. BUGMAN » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:24 pm

I thought Amy's deal was that she was essentially a female Pepe Le Pew, but instead of her stinking it's a double nod to the classic Hedgehog's Dilemma, i.e., she's prickly and he's not mature enough to want to handle that kinda thing. She herself is doubtlessly less mature for not realizing that they're both much to young for an amourous relationship.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Crisis » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:08 pm

Amy is a very transparent love interest/Smurfette for Sonic's group of friends. Creating a love interest for Sonic isn't a completely terrible idea, but Amy is conspicuously the "deviation from the default" - all the other major (male) animal characters have some innate defining trait, but Amy's defining characteristic is just that she's a woman. Which is why she's had so many inconsistent character revisions (fortune teller, magic mallet user, "speed" character in Sonic Heroes, archeologist). She's a blank slate that can easily be adapted into any continuity.

(Reserving judgement on the redesigns until I see them in motion and in context. Blue arms don't bother me in the slightest.)
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Popcorn » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:07 pm

Correct.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Malchik » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:23 pm

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:She herself is doubtlessly less mature for not realizing that they're both much to young for an amourous relationship.

I've never really seen these characters as children but Sega keeps pushing that fact.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Dr. BUGMAN » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:48 pm

Yeah, I guess post-adventure with tits the bat they would be young adults, but my mental image of Amy always defaults to this:

Image

Note that her car is basically Benny the Cab. And she's the only one in Fighters to have "boing" sound effects when hit (also included in her theme).

Damn, she was an even bigger golden age throwback than Sonic.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby big_smile » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:40 pm

she's done nothing, as far as we've been led to believe, but pursue Sonic night and day.

Good point, it would have been better if they had showed her doing other things. (Battle shows she's into Boxercise, but it would have been nice if they had done more things like this).

And, yes, you are correct about Gamma.

She herself is doubtlessly less mature for not realizing that they're both much to young for an amourous relationship.


I really don't think Amy is after a relationship with Sonic. Perhaps it's just a cultural thing, but in the UK, at least when I was growing up, little girls would go through the "marriage" phase. In my school, there was always at least a couple of girls in every year that would chase boys Amy style. Some of the stronger girls would even beat the weaker boys until they agreed to partake in a pretend wedding. It sounds perverse, but 80/90s girl culture encourages it. For example, when my sister was growing up, one of the must have toy was My Little Pony Bride. The back of the box of this product details all the fun Pony will have by eating wedding cake and playing wedding music, yet there doesn't seem to be any mention of a husband (Clearly the ceremony is more important than actually marrying someone). Barbie also had several wedding sets.

I'm not familiar with Japanese culture, but I have seen marriage obsessed little girls in Japanese cartoons.

In this sense Amy is neither Smurfette or Pepe Le Pew. She's really more of a bieliber (or whoever is the latest heart throb for little girls). She's not a love interest, but a gag ("Sonic can save the world but can't deal with a little girl's crush!").

Of course, I am probably reading too much into it (like with the arms). However, Amy has never really wooed Sonic. Her actions are limited to chasing and hammering. On the rare occasions she catches Sonic, she lets him go without a fight. And when the stakes with Eggman get serious, she puts her crush (and associated chasing) on hold until the danger is over.

I am sure she does have strong feelings for him, but I think a large degree of it is just school girl teasing/game playing.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Popcorn » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:58 pm

Being a Smurfette isn't necessarily about being a viable love interest. Amy is a classic Smurfette in that her primary identifying trait is entirely that she's female in a world of male characters. And pink. Etc. Even the identifying gimmick of her SA1 theme tune was that it was "girly".
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Popcorn » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:15 pm

In other news...

Image

I never realised those middle bits are Zero's eyes, like E-102.

Incidentally, Zero always reminded me of this guy, from the first Wallace and Gromit film:

Image
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Wombatwarlord777 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:19 pm

While we're on the topic of Zero, one of the things I've always wondered is why in the game he never has an animal stuffed inside powering him. From a story-telling perspective, I guess it makes him a lot easier to portray as a straight-up villain; The rest of the E-series robots in that game are portrayed in at least a bit of a sympathetic light, while ZERO ironically behaves like some sort of feral animal or alternatively a straight-up stalker. I suppose it's the same reason why Mecha and Metal Sonic are the same way.

One of the little things I like about Sonics 1 through Knuckles and CD is the little visual flair of releasing a living thing from the badniks. It gave me a small sense of accomplishment in those games, especially with the flowers permanently attached to the landscape in Sonic CD. It kind of bummed me out in Adventure, when animals weren't their own special characters anymore, and in Sonic Heroes, when they were done away with entirely.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Radrappy » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:26 pm

Wombatwarlord777 wrote:While we're on the topic of Zero, one of the things I've always wondered is why in the game he never has an animal stuffed inside powering him. From a story-telling perspective, I guess it makes him a lot easier to portray as a straight-up villain; The rest of the E-series robots in that game are portrayed in at least a bit of a sympathetic light, while ZERO ironically behaves like some sort of feral animal or alternatively a straight-up stalker. I suppose it's the same reason why Mecha and Metal Sonic are the same way.

One of the little things I like about Sonics 1 through Knuckles and CD is the little visual flair of releasing a living thing from the badniks. It gave me a small sense of accomplishment in those games, especially with the flowers permanently attached to the landscape in Sonic CD. It kind of bummed me out in Adventure, when animals weren't their own special characters anymore, and in Sonic Heroes, when they were done away with entirely.


Well, that's back in full force in Lost World for it's worth.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby big_smile » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:33 am

The animals in Lost World dance around with so much happiness after they have been freed. Their expressions add an extra level of satisfaction. Then after a few seconds they ...turn into pixie dust. I'm not sure what Sonic Team was thinking there.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Frieza2000 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:09 am

big_smile wrote:Of course, I am probably reading too much into it (like with the arms).


No, you're totally right. All of the pre-Adventure material portrays "Rosy the Rascal" as a cute little girl with just that kind of crush. In SA1 they changed her age from 8 to 12 and gave her a more mature looking outfit (and a theme song that sounded even more mature). And apparently all of the guys in Station Square are always asking her out...I don't know if that's them trying to make her seem older or just the usual Japanese pedophilia meme...but her dialogue and especially her Japanese actor still portray her as a girl with an innocent crush on a boy that's way too old for her. She was irritating in the sense that any younger kid tagging along is irritating (and her stubborn, determined personality adds to it a bit), but not an unlikable character. It wasn't until around Heroes that I started to see her as more like Bulma, whining and complaining and pulling out hammers of indignation because Sonic slighted her or something.

I wonder how they see her in Japan. I feel like the cultural context has a stronger influence on how she's perceived than any of the other characters.

big_smile wrote:On the rare occasions she catches Sonic, she lets him go without a fight.

Well, there was that one time...

(seriously, I know it's just an excuse to have a character battle and you can easily dismiss it as her being playful, but you can also look at it and get the impression that if Sonic had lost that fight he would've ended up living in a pit in Amy's basement).
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Dr. BUGMAN » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:14 pm

Wombatwarlord777 wrote:I suppose it's the same reason why Mecha and Metal Sonic are the same way.


I figured the were powered by the bad animals from Flicky, particularly Nyannyan (Tiger) as Metal Sonic:

Image

Maybe Nyannyan even claimed dominance, a-la Gamma, and has been operating MS during his more disobedient phases.

Cats are sadists.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Malchik » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:17 pm

Frieza2000 wrote:Well, there was that one time...

I miss the old voice actors.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Frieza2000 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:13 pm

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:I figured the were powered by the bad animals from Flicky, particularly Nyannyan (Tiger) as Metal Sonic


If I still wrote Sonic fanfic this would so be going in one.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Crazy Penguin » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:31 pm

Sonic Boom toy prototypes were shown off at Toy Fair: http://www.sonicstadium.org/2014/02/son ... -revealed/

It's kind of cool that they're making an Egg Mobile for the Eggman figure. I don't much care for the new design though.

Image

And Sonic will have a vehicle with sports tape on it.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby G.Silver » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:27 pm

I wonder how much "Sonic Income" Sega has received for spin-off products like this vs actual game sales, like especially for Sonic X and its various toy lines. When Sega of Japan is slow to put out marketable and license-able material, I guess it's up to SoA to make it themselves!
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Yami CJMErl » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:36 pm

See, all the physical Sonic Boom stuff just makes me question one other bit about Sonic's updated design (that isn't lol blooarmz): the extra hair bits. I mean, I like that they're making it look more like quills and I think it looks great...from a 2D perspective. Making that 3D, however, keeps making me think the top-most extra bit of hair looks like a goddamn slicked back antenna or something.

also Egg Mobile toy is awesome, will most likely buy
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Wombatwarlord777 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:48 pm

Okay, I was a little leery about the fact that Sonic and pals are now covered with sports tape, but I've gradually become acclimatized to it. It creates a new feel to the designs and gives a unifying element to the characters and could conceivably be thought of as a plausible addition, if not practical. So then why on earth is Sonic's new car also covered with the stuff? It might link it back to the characters, but the goddamn thing is already colored a very Sonic-y shade of blue! Plus, unlike the characters themselves, I think it looks really dumb. More to the point, why does Sonic need a car now?

The Eggmobile model is cool, but I think I like Burnbot's just a smidgen more. Seeing as it might be getting some merchandise, I wonder if he won't be a reoccurring robot on the show.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Radrappy » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:17 am

I will say one good thing to come out of all this is the partnership with TOMY. They are amazingly better at their jobs than Jazwares.
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Esrever » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:02 am

As an exercise, I tried taking my own crack at the new Sonic design... that is, a variation of the design that I liked, but that still incorporated all the elements they seem to want to prioritize with this. (Taller and leaner, scarf, tape everywhere, etc.) This is what I came up with:

Image

It was fun trying to redesign Sonic to a checklist of predetermined needs, vs just doing what I would do if I had actual free reign of the character. Maybe some of you other artists want to try it?
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Re: New Sonic game for 2015

Postby Wombatwarlord777 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:14 pm

I like that design, but the color scheme is almost too subdued for my tastes. Maybe it's because you used a slightly faded set of colors, but without Sonic's peach belly, the cool colors convey an utterly mellow hedgehog. It's a weird juxtaposition against everything else about Sonic's new design (and Sonic's design in general) that has a slightly edgy tone. I'm torn between thinking that said juxtaposition works just fine and that it's a little distracting.

I'm actually pretty satisfied with the new character designs. If I had to go and change something, I'd make Knuckles's legs a little thicker and I'd make Tail's gloves a nice shade of leathery brown, almost the shade and kind that Big wears. I've always imagined that giving Tails some workman's gloves would be a good way to convey his engineering prowess and be a nice subtle way to distinguish him from the rest of the cast. The way he is now, I'm constantly reminded of Bullwinkle.
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