Sonic Generations blows

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Popcorn
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Sonic Generations blows

Post by Popcorn »

I just bought it on impulse for basically nothing. First Sonic game I've bought since SA2. I felt an urge, a dreadful longing, the pull towards the cliff. Gravity is so much stronger at the edge.

I've only played 30 seconds and it's already the worst Sonic game ever, and here's why: there's a controller lag the size of Popcorn's mom. This is the PS3 version. I've googled it and all I get are people complaining about it on forums and other people telling them there's no problem. A few people vaguely suggest it's an issue with the TV settings but everything else works fine on this TV.

This game has been out how long again? Two years? Three? Is there seriously no fix?

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by G.Silver »

I see some threads about the 360 version having the same problem.

Are you sure it's not your TV? What kind of TV have you got? Have you got anything like a classic Sonic on PS3 to try with, or have you tried hooking a Mega Drive or something up to your TV? The lag on HDTVs is kind of notorious but for whatever reason a lot of modern games tend to not really show it as much (are they just less responsive by design?), if you're playing something like Sonic (or something less familiar) it's going to be a lot more obvious.

Also maybe you just don't like Sonic Generations. I didn't really like it either.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Popcorn »

It's one of them modern TVs you get nowadays. Got HD in em. Big telly, nice picture. Nice picture.

This lag is really bad - like, this bad. I'm sure my senses have dulled with age but no other game is like this. I guess there could be some particular TV setting the game doesn't like or something? I don't understand my TV.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by G.Silver »

One more thought--could it be a 3D mode of some kind that's active and your TV isn't liking it? I don't own a console version of the game, but I remember from the demo that there was some kind of support for 3D TVs. If that were the case I think somebody would have mentioned it on that youtube clip's comments but it's all I've got.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Esrever »

A lot of modern hdtvs will have a "game mode" that prioritizes reducing latency. On mine (a Samsung), the setting is in the SETUP submenu. Even if Generations is lagging more than other games, changing this setting might reduce it to the point where it is not noticible.

I didn't encounter any lag with Generations, but I guess I was playing it on the 360. (And I had already kind of obsessively tried to eliminate latency with my setup earlier to play Rock Band.) I hope you can get it to work, Pop. (Although to be honest, I don't think you are going to like the game anyway!)

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Majestic Joey »

I had the same problem with my TV. There was a setting that I had to change on my 360 to make it work right. Honestly you will probably be just guess and checking for a while to get it to work right.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Popcorn »

Well, I found a "GAME MODE" on my TV and I'm sure the lag isn't as bad as it used to be but it still isn't right. I guess I'm never meant to play this stupid game.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Popcorn »

Silv, why don't you like it?

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by G.Silver »

I don't like the handling on the 2D Sonic, and I don't really like the 3D Sonic at all. It's not abysmal, but it's just not something I found myself wanting to play. I didn't even go through the whole game (I probably will sometime(?)) but I stopped after completing the initial retro levels, seeing those in lush 3D was pretty much the only thing I wanted to get out of it anyway. Even when the game looks as nice as this, with such cool looking levels and crazy stuff going on in them, there's still many sloppy, unrefined elements, and somehow the experience just felt hollow to me. If I didn't have anything better to do I'd probably give it more time and discover its value or whatever, but I guess now I'm pickier than ever, and of course for Sonic my expectations are probably unreasonably high. In the end I just felt really indifferent to the game.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by FlashTHD »

30 minutes of the demo was more than I could stand of it. I didn't notice any lag, but "Fat" Sonic controls like his end of the game is held together with duct tape. Do anything removed from "stop moving forward" and there's a very good chance the game will freak out or make its strict limits clear. It's obviously far removed from the type of gameplay and physics it's based on, but that isn't the point - if the whole thing didn't feel so sloppily made, i'd almost accuse them of acting to deliberately piss off and alienate the players they were trying to appeal to. It's like, why even bother to wrestle with this constantly frustrating knockoff off the real thing? The nostalgia's not that good.

I have nothing to say about "Skinny" Sonic's half of the game because I was already tired of Sonic Burnout as it is.

There's no shame in being "picky" here. There was a time when they used to aim high with every game, sometimes exceptionally. The current Sonic game designers struggle to do this, I think on account of they can't be bothered to put any love in what they're making, or are just plain oblivious. Or both.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Esrever »

I liked Generations. I thought both the classic and modern segments of the game featured some interesting and (at times) ambitious stage design, and I really enjoyed going back and finding all the different hidden nooks and crannies. It and Colours were the first Sonic games I played thoroughly since SA2. (And unlike SA2, I didn't feel dead inside when it was over.) It still feels kind of confusing to me; that there are new Sonic games I actually enjoy again. (Especially since I've realized I'd probably rather play through either of them again than force myself through another "but it has such great ideas and pretty art!" appreciation grind of Sonic CD.)

The game has problems. The controls aren't as tight as you want them to be, and a few of the stages and missions are uninspired. Most deal-breakingly for some -- and this is why I don't picture you liking the game, Pop -- neither half of the gameplay is an accurate translation of traditional Sonic gameplay, despite the premise of the game. Instead, both are spins/refinements/improvements on the kind of gameplay found in recent 2D and 3D Sonic titles, with a little influence from the classics added back in. I like it; it made that kind of gameplay work for me (as did Colours), and I thought it was a pretty fun game in its own right. But it might not be what you want it to be.

Ultimately, revisiting the old settings and "greatest hits" of the franchise was the part of Generations I enjoyed the least... I felt like the window dressing of old styles and old characters made everything feel less interesting than it could of, much like it does in the New Super Mario Bros. series. After the ambitious and unique setting and mechanics of Colours it felt a little regressive.

I do think, though, that even if you don't LIKE it, it's hard to accuse the game of being loveless or lazy. There is a lot of effort all over this thing, although maybe you have to play more than the demo to get that vibe. The new team certainly gave it their best shot, even if they might be in over the heads trying to live up to the originals.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Majestic Joey »

I loved generations especially the classic sonic gameplay. I loved how the gameplay was 2d but at the same time the levels could wrap around like how it was done in other 2.5d games like Goemon's great adventure. Despite classic sonic's gameplay flaws that the controls were sluggish and how they did not recapture the momentum based qualities that the original genesis games had (seriously how hard is it to recreate that? I mean they pulled it off perfectly 20 years ago and can't figure out how to do it again), The level design, visuals and music were superb enough to save it in my opinion.

If they could just fix the controls and physics of classic sonic and just make games like that, I would be living the dream.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Segaholic2 »

I enjoyed Sonic Generations (gasp!) enough to beat it, but I wouldn't say it's a great game. I agree that the 2D controls felt really "off" and the 3D parts are still way too loose and imprecise. All that said, the art and visual design was some of the best we've had in years and the soundtrack was even more excellent than usual. I enjoyed the cinematic view of the 3D levels despite their sacrifice of actual player agency. I dunno. It was fun to look at and listen to. Overall a pretty hollow experience though, I'd say. Probably the best we'll get for a while, considering I'll never bother with the Nintendo exclusive crap.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Radrappy »

Esrever wrote: I do think, though, that even if you don't LIKE it, it's hard to accuse the game of being loveless or lazy. There is a lot of effort all over this thing, although maybe you have to play more than the demo to get that vibe. The new team certainly gave it their best shot, even if they might be in over the heads trying to live up to the originals.
Ehhhh I don't know about that. The terrible final boss, slight presentation issues (that cold, dead title screen for one), and piss poor level selection dare me to think otherwise.

I liked Generations well enough to finish it but was pretty let down in general. I was such a fan of Colors that Generation's complete abandonment of exploration in favor of pure thrills and spills was a huge disappointment. It's a game for the ADHD generation if ever I saw one.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Esrever »

In the end, I was happy with the level selection. The environments I was least interested in revisiting -- City Escape, Spagonia, Seaside Hill and Crisis City -- wound up housing some of my favourite stage designs. So even though they didn't always pick the stages I would have, I was pretty impressed by what they did with them.

And that's sort of how I feel about the whole game. Even though it's not the kind of game I would have made -- I would rather see new stuff than revisit old areas, I like more open environments, I prefer not to divide the racing and platforming elements artificially between two different characters, I'm not generally big on the "master boosting for the best speedruns" era of Sonic gameplay, etc -- they made the game really work for what it was. Basically, I think they really tried to make it the best whatever-it-is it could be, within the conceptual and financial parameters of the project, and mostly succeeded. It's not my favourite Sonic game, certainly, but it's in my top ten, and ultimately there was just a lot more too it than I was expecting.

That final boss WAS horrible, though.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Jingles »

I thought all the bosses were horrible. The Death Egg Robot fight was so stupid and overcomplicated... I'd rather they have just cut-and-pasted the one from Sonic 2.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

I rented it about a year ago on a borrowed PS3, so my memories of the game are kind of fuzzy. Still, I remember that I actually liking Modern Sonic's gameplay better. It isn't based around momentum at all, but I think it flows wonderfully once you learn where to anticipate things. That and it wasn't as needlessly frustrating as PS3 Sonic Unleashed could get in some parts.

Don't get me wrong. Classic Sonic was still an enjoyable, nostalgic romp. But, yeah, it feels a little off. For being based off of momentum-based platformers, there sure aren't a lot of half-pipes and quarter turns to go around, and even when they are there, their effect is either underwhelming or feels at least semi-scripted. It doesn't help that Sonic loses speed and momentum a lot more quickly, too. They also seem to throw away sustained multiple paths immediately after the Classic Era stages, after which stages tend to feature a single main, boring lower path and a single upper path that's more exciting and rewarding but easy to fall off of. It's fun to go back and tool around with the elemental shields and other abilities.

I actually thought that the bosses were some of the best parts of the game. Their difficulty was perfect in my opinion, harder than a vast majority of Eggman's 16-bit machines, but not as dickish/tedious as the bosses in more recent games tend to be. That said, I had to return the game just before getting to the Egg Dragoon and the Time Eater, which most people say are less than fun, so I probably dodged that bullet.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Esrever »

I liked the boss battles, final two excluded. Almost all of them were better than their original versions, including Metal Sonic and Perfect Chaos. (Definitely not Death Egg Robot, though.)

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Radrappy »

I didn't mind them either, save for the final 2. Those were real stinkers. The Shadow fight got on my nerves a little bit as what should have been a simple race to the finish turned into something I still can't quite make sense out of. The real surprise for me turned out to be the silver fight, which was more fun and better designed than I could have ever expected.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by big_smile »

I thought the final 2 bosses were on purpose (because they were trying to accurately represent the modern era).

--

I loved Sonic Generations. Whereas Sonic 4 was made from resentment, Generations is the opposite and you can tell that Sonic Team really enjoyed making it.

Classic Sonic was my favourite. I loved how they recreated the nuances of the Mega Drive games but infused them with new ideas, such as the run-away sign post in Crisis City, the truck/skateboarding in City Escape and the Ring Time power-up. At times, it felt like playing the true sequel to Sonic 3.

I particularly liked the spin-dash: If combined with a jump at the right moment, Sonic would ricochet off enemies and land in a new area. Even Sonic 3 didn't have these pinball style mechanics.

The only real problem was that the level design wasn't as expansive as the originals. There were plenty of extra routes, but it wasn't on the same level as Sonic 3. The mission mode compensated for this and, for the most part, did a good job of adding new flavours to the classic formula.

I also didn't like the aesthetic depiction of the classic elements (they were too cartoony) and the use of the shields.

Modern Sonic's controls were quite weak. However, I think the level design was some of the best in 3D games (with the possible exception of Sonic Colours), so it's hard to complain.

I wish they would take the Classic Sonic engine and use it to make a new Sonic 4/Sonic 5 (making sure to keep the same design team). It's too awesome not to be used again. I also hope Generations becomes a tradition for milestone anniversaries.

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Gaz »

I like Sonic Generations and I think it's a good game but it has some issues and is probably one of the most overrated games in the series.

Modern Sonic is probably the best part of the game. The level designs are generally pretty good and play well. Classic Sonic is OK at best. The classic level designs just aren't as good and the physics are a bit iffy. It feels more like playing a poor imitation rather than actual Classic Sonic. The bosses are atrocious and are probably some of the worst I've seen in a Sonic game with the final boss being one of the worst bosses ever. The first few bosses are at least a bit more tolerable though. The challenge stages vary and they mainly just feel like filler but given that they're mostly optional it's hardly something to complain about.

I think my biggest problem with the game though is it just played things too safe. It seemed to mostly rely on nostalgia and I just felt like I was playing a game I played before(which I sort of was). There are some good moments where the game does stray a bit from the original levels but they're a bit few and far between. A good early example is when Chemical Plant starts exploding. I remember thinking there was going to be a mad dash while the level explodes around Sonic but next thing I knew the level was over. Despite all the complaining I do like Sonic Generations but I just don't think it came anywhere close to deserving the amount of praise it got. I think Sonic Colours is a much better game(although admittedly that does have some issues as well).

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Re: Sonic Generations blows

Post by Radrappy »

Gaz wrote: but next thing I knew the level was over.
This was how I felt about nearly every stage in the game.

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