Sonic ..Excursion?

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cjmcray
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Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by cjmcray »

Rumor has it, that's the title of the next Sonic game.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... ostcount=1

-Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, (and possibly Dr. Eggman) are playable.

-Sonic Heroes style chatter throughout each stage. U_U

-Two stages shown off: "Shattered Heights" a stage similar to Speed Highway, has Sonic & Tails jumping through windows of buildings, running through rooms and offices, as panicked humans yell in terror. Another stage is called "Lunar Caverns" no details on that one.

-Eggman steals a gold necklace from an underground temple. (lemme guess, he uses it to awaken a monster?)

-Releases November for PS3, PS4, Wii-U, XB360, XBOX "Infinite" and 3DS.

-3DS version will NOT be handled by Dimps.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by G.Silver »

So much for our carefree days! Hasn't it been nice to not have to get all agitated about a new Sonic game for a while? I could have gone longer!

If it turns out awful we can call it "Sonic Excrement." I get where they might have been going with a title like that but they could have spent a little more time with the thesaurus on that one. :/

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Wombatwarlord777 »

It'll be interesting to see how Tails, Knuckles, and Amy operate in this game, seeing as how the last three big console games (Unleashed, Colors, and Generations) have basically just refined the heck out of one particular type of gameplay. Anyways, it'll be nice to play as somebody other than Sonic. I was beginning to think that Knuckles might just fade into obscurity like Big or Nack. This is assuming what's been heard is legit.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

G.Silver wrote:If it turns out awful we can call it "Sonic Excrement."
More like Sonic Excruciating. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Crazy Penguin »

The Sonic Heroes style talking makes me wince. Hopefully it's just a "Help" feature that can be turned off, like Tails in Colours and Omochao in Generations. The rest all sounds promising.

A cameo by G-merl is surprising. I thought they'd completely abandoned that character.
3DS version will NOT be handled by Dimps.
FINALLY. I enjoyed Sonic Rush Adventure a lot, but all of their other entries in the series ranged from mediocre to abysmal.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Jingles »

cjmcray wrote: Another stage is called "Lunar Caverns" no details on that one.
This is just a theory, but what if this level takes place in the caverns on the moon made in SA2? That would be neat.

Also, DIMPS not handling the handheld version is cause for rejoice. I haven't enjoyed a single handheld Sonic they've made.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Rob-Bert »

"Excursion" is a fancy word for "Adventure". Makes me wonder...

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by FlashTHD »

We are, of course, aware this could turn out to be Wentos spending an afternoon writing up bullcrap to laff at those who speculate furiously over it? Even though Sega is shameless in everything they do of late.

I guess we find out in 20 days when Microsoft has a name for their new box of always-connected-or-else doom.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Crisis »

The name "Sonic Excursion" is awful, but then again so is "Sonic Colours" so it strikes me as plausible.

Having characters talk to each other during gameplay doesn't really bother me, and Sonic Team have been pretty good at providing ways to disable it as well, so I'm not too worried about that. I think the developers are aware that it rubs people the wrong way.

What's more interesting is that this sounds like the most ambitious project since Sonic '06. Sonic Team have been gradually improving their fundamentals with Unleashed -> Colours -> Generations, and I personally found Generations to be pretty satisfying. I'm still not expecting Adventure-quality titles out of them yet, but I like the trajectory they're on.

Of course, it could all turn out to be fake. Then again, the timing is about right. Weren't there similar leaks for Unleashed, Colours and Generations? I forget.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by cjmcray »

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/rumor ... 452989547/

This link has some more details.

-Character select screen similar to Sonic Adventure 1

-Logos for stages are similar to Sonic 3.

-Sonic is playable solo, or with Tails following, ala Sonic 2.

-Knuckles can boost.

-Emblems unlock hidden partners such as Shadow, Rouge, Silver or Blaze.

I'm starting to think 'Excursion' is just a working title. This could be Sonic Adventure 3.

But then again, this could all be nothing but bunk...

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Gaz »

Crisis wrote:I'm still not expecting Adventure-quality titles out of them yet, but I like the trajectory they're on.
What's that supposed to mean? The Adventure games are little more than a couple of sub-par(and even that's being pretty generous) games that have aged poorly. Colours and Generations had their issues but personally I thought they were pretty good games that were far superior to either of the Adventure titles.

Apparently this rumour's been confirmed fake now anyway. I'm actually surprised this didn't turn out true given that Sonic game's generally seem to end up getting leaked but it can't be long now until another official announcement.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Neo »

Gaz wrote:What's that supposed to mean? The Adventure games are little more than a couple of sub-par(and even that's being pretty generous) games that have aged poorly. Colours and Generations had their issues but personally I thought they were pretty good games that were far superior to either of the Adventure titles.
SA1 and SA2 have aged poorly so they suck, Colors and Generations haven't aged poorly so they're good. Flawless logic. Except Colors came out two years ago and SA1 over twelve, so how the fuck can you compare them over the merits of how they've aged when one set of games hasn't had time to age at all.

It's a bullshit argument, anyway. A game's crippling features are always crippling no matter how old the game is, and the only thing that actually changes with the years is your perspective due to having other experiences in the interim. Which is exactly the phenomenon seen where different people have differing opinions on something because of their personal past experiences. You could argue that some games have been revolutionary to the point that at the time of their release, everyone came with a clean slate so it gets universally regarded as masterpiece, but what I really mean to say with this diatribe is that Sonic Adventure 1 is a piece of shit but Sonic Adventure 2 is a much more polished game experience than any recent-year Sonic game. You're allowed to dislike lock-ons and emerald hunting, but you can't deny that contemporary Sonic games have been plagued with bad controls and shallow content depth.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by G.Silver »

Gaz wrote:Apparently this rumour's been confirmed fake now anyway. I'm actually surprised this didn't turn out true given that Sonic game's generally seem to end up getting leaked but it can't be long now until another official announcement.
Where/what is the "Generations Leak Screenshot" they are referring to there?

I guess it's back to normal, that was sort of exciting though.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Segaholic2 »

more like sexcursion

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by FlashTHD »

Neo wrote:but what I really mean to say with this diatribe is that Sonic Adventure 1 is a piece of shit but Sonic Adventure 2 is a much more polished game experience than any recent-year Sonic game. You're allowed to dislike lock-ons and emerald hunting, but you can't deny that contemporary Sonic games have been plagued with bad controls and shallow content depth.
My hero. (I still like SA1 though.)

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Crisis »

Gaz wrote:What's that supposed to mean?
I like Adventure 1 a lot - the level design does a great job of translating what was fun about the early games into three dimensions. It also laid down the fundamentals for every 3D Sonic game since then. Sonic Adventure 2 cherry-picked the best ideas from SA1 and developed them further.

SA1 was a dramatic turning point for the series, not only in terms of art direction and sound design, but also through the updated and re-imagined design philosophy. It's remarkable that they were able to create a compelling game at all given the circumstances. (That's also part of what makes Mario 64 so interesting.) The game was both ambitious and entertaining, pushing the technology to the limit, and the flaws that existed were largely superficial (graphical, lack of QA time, hilariously awful voice acting, etc). That's important because superficial flaws can easily be iterated on and improved.

Unleashed suffers from really bad fundamentals. Colours was an improvement in level design but the controls are all wrong. Generations was yet another step up, but they had a lot of help - much of the design was lifted directly from the reference material.

So that's really all I mean. Sonic Team is in recovery mode, but so far they've made 3 successively better Sonic games, and I think that's promising. They don't yet have the combination of ambition and talent of the Adventure era, but they're making progress.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by big_smile »

I actually think Sonic Adventure was the worse thing to happen to the Sonic series.

That might sound hyperbolic, but my reasons are sound. The original Sonic games were thrilling because of Sonic's speed. However, with speed, the player can become quickly accustomed to it, which causes it to lose its thrill. The only solution is to make Sonic faster, but that also makes the game more frustrating to play. The Mega Drive games understood this and had plenty of slower sections which stopped the player from getting accustom to the speed. The player often had to put a bit of effort into making Sonic reach his top speed.

In Sonic Adventure, most of these slower sections were spun-off into the adventure fields. The action stages did have areas where Sonic moved at a slower speed, but they also made use of dash pads and other devices to get Sonic reaching his top speed speed instantly. The result is that SA was easily the most thrilling Sonic game. In fact, at the time, it felt that with a bit of tweaking, the perfect Sonic game could be created.

Subsequent titles took on this task of refining the Adventure forumla by upping the use of instant speed devices and stripping away the slower sections. This, however, caused them to devolve into frustrating memory tests. It's not so much that Sonic Adventure itself was a bad game, but the legacy it left crippled the series.

Since Sonic Colours, the series has stopped trying to improve on Adventure and has greatly improved as a result.

So, yes, I hope that the next Sonic game stays away from Sonic Adventure.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Crisis »

I've always thought that there were multiple directions they could take the series. I think there's room for both twitchy, reaction-based platforming and slower-paced, open-ended environments. Whether they would be better off merged together or segregated into their own games, I don't know. I think the only way to find out would be to try it.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by G.Silver »

big_smile wrote:I actually think Sonic Adventure...
I think they just took it in the wrong directions afterwards, myself. Instead of working on ways to better integrate the slow and fast parts together and rely less on dash pads and things like that, they dropped the slow parts (or replaced them with tedious "battles," made the levels more homogenous, and relied even more on dash pads and other "fake" trickery to push Sonic through speedy loops and runways. In a certain sense they are "better" because you can leave someone alone with them and they're unlikely to fall through the floor, but they focus way too much on the speed and visual flash instead of having strong fundamentals.

Super Mario 3D Land is a game that's still really fresh in my mind, at least as far as games I really got into, and despite being a slower game, trying to get through those small, simple stages quickly is a lot more fun and thrilling than anything I've done with Sonic in a long, long time. Even though Mario has a simple on/off speed control and doesn't even get going that fast, the sensation of going fast is still really exciting, and they even do some Sonic-esque tricks with it (like running towards the camera with stuff barreling down after you from behind). Something I've thought over the past 10 years is that probably my expectations for Sonic are just too high and even if there were a new game that I found less problematic, I still wouldn't appreciate it the way I used to, but I played the heck out of 3D Land and loved it, so it turns out I am in fact still capable of experiencing pleasure via a video game, engaged with it more or less the same way I did with old Sonic titles.
Crisis wrote:Sonic Team is in recovery mode, but so far they've made 3 successively better Sonic games, and I think that's promising. They don't yet have the combination of ambition and talent of the Adventure era, but they're making progress.
I'm not willing to let Sonic Team off the hook like that, just to say "things are getting better," or "they don't have the talent." This is one of Sega's most important divisions working on one of their most important franchises, they should have the talent. It might not be shining through because of any number of factors, corporate pressure to crank out games too quickly to allow for experimentation, a controlling mindset at some level that insists they stick to the "path" that they're on, or maybe no one there even thinks it's a problem (I assume they do well financially regardless). There are plenty of other good games out there to look at for ideas and quality benchmarks. There is no excuse for this slow ramp up away from mediocrity.

The only good indicator for the next game, when it eventually happens, is that they seem to have decided to slow down and take their time with the project for the first time since Sonic Adventure. Like GG! said years and years ago (where is that guy?), the best way to improve 3D Sonic is hiatus.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Radrappy »

So this has been all but confirmed to be fake, apparently. Probably for the best too because the whole thing sounded like a crazed fan's wishlist to begin with. I mean who honestly expects to see Gemrel again?

As for where the series went wrong, I maintain that it was with SA1. It's where they started to focus on speed and forced dynamic camera movements over all else. Anytime I hear Iizuka talk about how they had the camera shift constantly to deliver a sense of speed(like in making-of documentaries or what have you) I want to slap the man. Who wants to play a 3d action game where camera control is constantly yanked out of your hands? Sonic & Sega Racing actual managed to get the loop de loops working to 3d for once, letting the camera stay locked on the character and actually giving you the sensation that you were IN the loop. So, yeah. Stop fucking with the camera Iizuka!

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Neo »

Radrappy wrote:Who wants to play a 3d action game where camera control is constantly yanked out of your hands?
Player-controlled cameras in video games are a brace. They're an extra barrier to full, immersive, intuitive control of your character, which should feel as a direct extension of your body. Instead, giving player control over the camera makes them responsible for two separate entities, which is actually a more complicated activity than what you deal with in real life.

In theory, the perfect automatic camera is better than a manual camera. However, the perfect automatic camera would need to somehow divine what the player wants to look at in every possible circumstance, which in itself is a psychological problem far too complex to address in a relatively minor part of a piece of entertainment software most people will only interact with for a few (dozen?) hours in their lifetime. So the two solutions are to make a sub-par camera that only works sometimes or refrain from trying to solve the problem at all and just pass it onto the player. Slower games can get away with this, but the fast pace of the 3D Sonic games means that at any given time the player is juggling several variables with very little reaction time available; adding camera control on top would only make them inaccessible for a lot of players.

Cinematic sequences in the middle of a stage are "bad", but they also provide some breather room between highly active sequences. They're not the universal cancer they're made out to be, it really depends on the case. (About half of them are probably superfluous, though.)

FlashTHD, please. Allow me to rock your world.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by big_smile »

I personally think they should just stick to the classic sections of Sonic Generations. However, they should have areas where Sonic can get a power up to gain his modern abilities. These areas would then be focused on boosting, using the homing attack and all the other modern trimmings. When Sonic reaches the end of the area, he reverts back to his classic abilities. This would bring back the balance that was present in the Mega Drive games.
FINALLY. I enjoyed Sonic Rush Adventure a lot, but all of their other entries in the series ranged from mediocre to abysmal.
I thought both the Rush games were almost decent. The overuse of bottomless pits let them down, which is a shame, as in places they felt like a true continuation of the original Mega Drives games. The adventure extras in SRA were fun at first became repetitive quickly.

Sonic Colours DS was awesome. It had all the charm of the rush games without the annoyance of bottomless pits. I think it was Dimps finest hour and I greatly prefer it over the already excellent Wii version.

I was expecting Sonic Generation 3DS to be enhanced version of its console counterpart, much like Sonic Colours DS. Unfortuntly, its seems Dimps felt the best way to celebrate Sonic's 20th anniversary was by giving us Sonic Advance 4. Although SG 3DS has its moments, I was shocked at how regressive it is. I'd really love to know the behind scenes story at Dimps, as Sonic 4 suffered from similar problems.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Radrappy »

Neo wrote:
Radrappy wrote:Who wants to play a 3d action game where camera control is constantly yanked out of your hands?
Player-controlled cameras in video games are a brace. They're an extra barrier to full, immersive, intuitive control of your character, which should feel as a direct extension of your body. Instead, giving player control over the camera makes them responsible for two separate entities, which is actually a more complicated activity than what you deal with in real life.

In theory, the perfect automatic camera is better than a manual camera. However, the perfect automatic camera would need to somehow divine what the player wants to look at in every possible circumstance, which in itself is a psychological problem far too complex to address in a relatively minor part of a piece of entertainment software most people will only interact with for a few (dozen?) hours in their lifetime. So the two solutions are to make a sub-par camera that only works sometimes or refrain from trying to solve the problem at all and just pass it onto the player. Slower games can get away with this, but the fast pace of the 3D Sonic games means that at any given time the player is juggling several variables with very little reaction time available; adding camera control on top would only make them inaccessible for a lot of players.

Cinematic sequences in the middle of a stage are "bad", but they also provide some breather room between highly active sequences. They're not the universal cancer they're made out to be, it really depends on the case. (About half of them are probably superfluous, though.)

FlashTHD, please. Allow me to rock your world.
I'm not sure I follow you 100% but if there are automated camera sequences in future titles they need to be done infinitely better than they're done now. Mario Galaxy 1/2 have nailed it, giving player control in wide open areas and forcing the perspective for 2d platforming bits and tight areas.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by FlashTHD »

I'm tired out of being in discussions like this concerning the Sonic franchise, but i'll throw this out here for old time's sake:

Boosting needs to die in a car bombing and never return. It has come to the point where it's such a dominant game mechanic, that i'm left with the impression they'd rather be making sequels to Burnout, or come to think of it, anything other than platforming video games. I do not plunk down my money for Sonic games hoping instead to play a poor man's Burnout with a jump button and QTEs (and moves that are functionally no better than QTEs). It wasn't even that much fun when it was a spin-off; it's totally beyond me how they've let Boost!Sonic become half or more of the core series for this long. That's called "brand poisoning", I believe?

Of course, as the terrible Sonic 4 twins demonstrate, killing the boost button is not going to be the magic fix when they can't make games without it half decently either. That's another can of worms I don't feel like opening right now, but it's still pathetic that freeware fangames off the internet keep running circles around their efforts, over and over again.

Speaking of that, this is out in a few days, it's the sequel to this, and I am pumped.

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Re: Sonic ..Excursion?

Post by Tsuyoshi-kun »

I hate boosting, too.
Neo wrote:Sonic Adventure 2 is a much more polished game experience than any recent-year Sonic game. You're allowed to dislike lock-ons and emerald hunting, but you can't deny that contemporary Sonic games have been plagued with bad controls and shallow content depth.
Emerald hunting was more fun in Sonic Adventure 1 because the levels were more compact and they told you where each shard was, instead of forcing you to do it one at a time over levels that can take you 15-25 minutes to complete if unfamiliar with the level. I remember taking 35 minutes to beat Death Chamber on my first time because the level was just too big.

Adventure 2 is more polished than 1, but it also has weaker level design, a much worse camera, levels that are either too long (Death Chamber) or too short (Shadow's levels save his last one), and bland Sonic-centric levels, with none of the flair of the 16-bit games or even Sonic Adventure 1 (bland city, bland jungle, space, etc.)

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