Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
So maybe this is old news for some of us (in which case great, you can clue me in) but I was talking with Pepperidge and he tells me he came across some comics from when Sonic 1 first released with some unique qualities, like he's in a band, has fangs, and an adoring mob of female humans (his self-proclaimed "bodyguards") and I'm all WHAT IS. Of course, he couldn't seem to find it again. With what googling I was able to do I found some raw Japanese scans of some pages here:
http://www.sonicdatabase.com/Sonic1991/sonic1991.htm
And evidence of a site that had some or all of it (more pages than just the ones I found in Japanese) translated to English, but only via sites that linked to it, Fuck Yea Sonic had tumbrized a few pages (http://fuckyeasonic.tumblr.com/post/42604654657) but the actual site seems to be gone: http://manga.portalsonic.com/ Via WayBack machine I found the page was still accessible but didn't actually have the comics preserved. So I'm ok with raws myself but if there's an existing translated version and especially if there are more pages, that's also a thing I want to know about!
An interesting thing about them is that they must have been made before the game was finished, aside from those elements we lost early on (the band, "fangs," and female human characters), when it refers to game zone names it uses early ones, like "Sparkling Zone" or "Star Land Zone."
I also came across this French comic, linked here as a pdf: http://www.theemeraldstarpost.co.uk/TES ... ures_1.pdf I was surprised to see that European comics besides the Fleetway ones existed, I haven't looked through this one much yet but the art is pretty cool imo, even if it does use those early western character designs.
ALSO I was reminded of the existence of some Sonic comics (the ones where Sonic is a kid with parents and I guess he turns into Sonic as a super power somehow) which I believe Big Smile posted about before and had scans or something of.. that might even be here on this incarnation of the forum. Can anybody link back to that, or can it be re-posted?
http://www.sonicdatabase.com/Sonic1991/sonic1991.htm
And evidence of a site that had some or all of it (more pages than just the ones I found in Japanese) translated to English, but only via sites that linked to it, Fuck Yea Sonic had tumbrized a few pages (http://fuckyeasonic.tumblr.com/post/42604654657) but the actual site seems to be gone: http://manga.portalsonic.com/ Via WayBack machine I found the page was still accessible but didn't actually have the comics preserved. So I'm ok with raws myself but if there's an existing translated version and especially if there are more pages, that's also a thing I want to know about!
An interesting thing about them is that they must have been made before the game was finished, aside from those elements we lost early on (the band, "fangs," and female human characters), when it refers to game zone names it uses early ones, like "Sparkling Zone" or "Star Land Zone."
I also came across this French comic, linked here as a pdf: http://www.theemeraldstarpost.co.uk/TES ... ures_1.pdf I was surprised to see that European comics besides the Fleetway ones existed, I haven't looked through this one much yet but the art is pretty cool imo, even if it does use those early western character designs.
ALSO I was reminded of the existence of some Sonic comics (the ones where Sonic is a kid with parents and I guess he turns into Sonic as a super power somehow) which I believe Big Smile posted about before and had scans or something of.. that might even be here on this incarnation of the forum. Can anybody link back to that, or can it be re-posted?
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Yeah, I had that manga.portalsonic bookmarked a while ago, and, if memory serves, the fanged lead singer Sonic and nebbish alter-ego "Nikki" comics were from the same source (assuming s/he just throw them in together).
Interestingly enough, Amy jumped between her brown, ponytailed self and her canonized Classic self depending on whether or not it was in color. The latter appeared before "mysterious new character" Tails (hilariously spoofing Shadow nearly a decade in advance), which seems to indicate that she WAS lifted straight from there for Sonic CD (plus pink coloration). The Tornado, too, predates Tails' appearance by several issues as Nikki's dad's airmail plane (hence the "faster than airmail" sign in Generations), indicating the obvious.
(Caveat: It's been a long while since I've read it)
Interestingly enough, Amy jumped between her brown, ponytailed self and her canonized Classic self depending on whether or not it was in color. The latter appeared before "mysterious new character" Tails (hilariously spoofing Shadow nearly a decade in advance), which seems to indicate that she WAS lifted straight from there for Sonic CD (plus pink coloration). The Tornado, too, predates Tails' appearance by several issues as Nikki's dad's airmail plane (hence the "faster than airmail" sign in Generations), indicating the obvious.
(Caveat: It's been a long while since I've read it)
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
There are several Japanese Sonic comics. I have put all the ones I have into an archive which you can download here. I think the one you want is in there, although its not very well organised. The thread you were talking about can be found here.
That French Sonic comic is a nice find. I think there was also another British Sonic comic (in addition to Sonic the Comic), which was as equally little known. The comic was split up into 5 panel sections and printed each week in the Sunday edition of News of the World. It followed the game story line very closely (much like the UK Sonic year books), although midway through they started using the Satam style Eggman. Stories included Sonic losing his memory and Eggman stockpiling a vault of rings.
In Generations, there is a sign that lists all the character's names and Amy is misspelt as Emi (which is a common romanisation error). Was that supposed to be a reference to anything? It just seems odd that they would make that mistake.
^_^
That French Sonic comic is a nice find. I think there was also another British Sonic comic (in addition to Sonic the Comic), which was as equally little known. The comic was split up into 5 panel sections and printed each week in the Sunday edition of News of the World. It followed the game story line very closely (much like the UK Sonic year books), although midway through they started using the Satam style Eggman. Stories included Sonic losing his memory and Eggman stockpiling a vault of rings.
That's awesome. I always thought that sign was somewhat random, but now it makes sense.The Tornado, too, predates Tails' appearance by several issues as Nikki's dad's airmail plane (hence the "faster than airmail" sign in Generations), indicating the obvious.
In Generations, there is a sign that lists all the character's names and Amy is misspelt as Emi (which is a common romanisation error). Was that supposed to be a reference to anything? It just seems odd that they would make that mistake.
^_^
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
There's a collection of colour strips here: http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Book
Like Amy, Charmy Bee also started off with a different look.
But quickly started to look like the familiar version that ended up in Chaotix.
Like Amy, Charmy Bee also started off with a different look.
But quickly started to look like the familiar version that ended up in Chaotix.
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Thanks for the posts back, I knew our collected expertise was sure to produce something! The comic I was looking for was indeed in Big Smile's massive comic archive in the "sonic manga" directory--it's in the perfect order actually, so no organization problems at all, and it looks much more complete than the ones I was finding.
Are there scans anywhere of the newspaper strip? I'm really surprised to hear of something like that existing!
Are there scans anywhere of the newspaper strip? I'm really surprised to hear of something like that existing!
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Neat! An almost full collection. I only had three 'issues', so it's great to see more of them. Thanks for posting!
Googling around I found this thread which explains more about them. It's also got a link to a tumbler that has more issues.
The Japanese Sonic comics with Charmy and Amy are also an amazing find. It's kind of ironic: Many fans (myself included) often grumble about the influence of the comics on the games. Yet, it seems our hallowed Japanese continuity has been heavily influenced by comics! I wonder if this explains why Amy wasn't in Sonic 3 - perhaps Naka didn't feel she was a true Sonic character.
^_^
Googling around I found this thread which explains more about them. It's also got a link to a tumbler that has more issues.
The Japanese Sonic comics with Charmy and Amy are also an amazing find. It's kind of ironic: Many fans (myself included) often grumble about the influence of the comics on the games. Yet, it seems our hallowed Japanese continuity has been heavily influenced by comics! I wonder if this explains why Amy wasn't in Sonic 3 - perhaps Naka didn't feel she was a true Sonic character.
^_^
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Wow, that's a thing. "No time to jaw!"
I'm pretty sure Amy not appearing in Sonic 3 has less to do with any preference of the developers and more to do with the way the games were developed, with Naka still in the US and communication between SoA and SoJ probably not so great. What all these comics say to me is that even in Japan there was a lack of control or at least a very loose control over Sonic's branding image. They wanted to get Sonic out there in front of as many eyes as possible but they weren't concerned about matching the game (like with those stage names) or maintaining any kind of consistent story across different media. In the US you get the impression that no details came from Japan or that they deliberately ignored them, despite wanting to maintain control over that sort of thing, creating "character bibles" and the like. I'd have thought it would have been different in Japan, but maybe not!
Have other comics really had much influence on the games? Outside certain outliers like Spinball and Chronicles, there doesn't seem to be much to grumble about? Considering that the influence from these Japanese comics was pretty late to appear, they really don't seem to have had a "heavy" influence, more like the comics were a potential source of inspiration when they needed an extra element and were able to pick and choose what to bring over without making radical changes (unlike the SatAM-inspired prototype).The Japanese Sonic comics with Charmy and Amy are also an amazing find. It's kind of ironic: Many fans (myself included) often grumble about the influence of the comics on the games. Yet, it seems our hallowed Japanese continuity has been heavily influenced by comics! I wonder if this explains why Amy wasn't in Sonic 3 - perhaps Naka didn't feel she was a true Sonic character.
I'm pretty sure Amy not appearing in Sonic 3 has less to do with any preference of the developers and more to do with the way the games were developed, with Naka still in the US and communication between SoA and SoJ probably not so great. What all these comics say to me is that even in Japan there was a lack of control or at least a very loose control over Sonic's branding image. They wanted to get Sonic out there in front of as many eyes as possible but they weren't concerned about matching the game (like with those stage names) or maintaining any kind of consistent story across different media. In the US you get the impression that no details came from Japan or that they deliberately ignored them, despite wanting to maintain control over that sort of thing, creating "character bibles" and the like. I'd have thought it would have been different in Japan, but maybe not!
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Yeah, that's a good point. "Heavy influence" was a bit of an exaggeration as the only influence the Japanese comics had was Amy.
(To a degree, Charmy doesn't really count as he didn't become a 'proper' character until Sonic Heroes and I think his revamp was based on the Chaotix game and not the comic).
However, based on the scans Crazy Penguin posted, it looks like they copied Amy's design almost wholly (especially as, like Dr Bugman notes, the later issues of the comic made her pink), rather than just using the comic as a source of inspiration.
The US comics/cartoons gave us Chilli dogs, but that wasn't absorbed until Sonic Advance 3.
Amy's absence in Sonic 3 could simply be because she didn't fit in the story. However, I've always found her's and Metal Sonic's absence odd. Like you say, it could just be communication issues, but surely by the time Sonic & Knuckles rolled around, the US development team would have seen Sonic CD. I also find it a bit odd that they revamped Mecha Sonic as a blue robot rather than just using Metal Sonic. That kind of seems like a rejection of Metal Sonic to me, but I could be over-reading things.
(To a degree, Charmy doesn't really count as he didn't become a 'proper' character until Sonic Heroes and I think his revamp was based on the Chaotix game and not the comic).
However, based on the scans Crazy Penguin posted, it looks like they copied Amy's design almost wholly (especially as, like Dr Bugman notes, the later issues of the comic made her pink), rather than just using the comic as a source of inspiration.
The US comics/cartoons gave us Chilli dogs, but that wasn't absorbed until Sonic Advance 3.
Amy's absence in Sonic 3 could simply be because she didn't fit in the story. However, I've always found her's and Metal Sonic's absence odd. Like you say, it could just be communication issues, but surely by the time Sonic & Knuckles rolled around, the US development team would have seen Sonic CD. I also find it a bit odd that they revamped Mecha Sonic as a blue robot rather than just using Metal Sonic. That kind of seems like a rejection of Metal Sonic to me, but I could be over-reading things.
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
I find it interesting that Sonic 2 Mega Drive, Sonic 2 Game Gear and Sonic CD were all in development around the same time and each one had a completely different Sonic robot. I have to wonder if each team came up with the same idea independently, or if they shared the basic boss idea before they had finalised designs.
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
There could also have been a little rivalry going on as far as trying to 1up the Japanese developers with a cool robot. :) There also wasn't really any reason to shoehorn Amy in if they already had their game design set, and there's also just the matter of how many resources are available, would Amy have been a character anyone wanted to play as, would it be worth it to have another non-playable character (her role in Sonic CD is pretty extraneous!), and so on. Just putting Knuckles in as the big new character and having him fully playable and the lockon tech and all that, just getting him in was a really big deal and they built the whole game around the idea that there was or was going to be this other character. Throwing Amy or other characters in might have been both infeasible and diluting to that particular design focus.
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Are we not treating the Tornado as a manga-derived element, or is my reasoning too tenuous? The fact it shows up in U.S.-developed Sonic 2 means that (if I'm right) they were privy to the comic to some degree.
And I don't think Amy would made any sense in the context of Sonic 3. She did have any distinguishing traits at that point (her mallet was invented for The Fighters, right?). As a damsel-in-distress, I don't Knuckles would not approve of abduction and it would've made Eggman the obvious villain.
And I don't think Amy would made any sense in the context of Sonic 3. She did have any distinguishing traits at that point (her mallet was invented for The Fighters, right?). As a damsel-in-distress, I don't Knuckles would not approve of abduction and it would've made Eggman the obvious villain.
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
I don't mean to say Sonic Team wouldn't have seen the comics (They have or had the Archie comics over at Sonic Team in Japan, too, after all!), I meant that the people doing the comics weren't being held to any particular restrictions. I'm sure all the comics and other licensed stuff was finding its way back to Sonic Team wherever they were at.
The airplane is interesting because they kinda had aircraft elements from the very beginning with the Mary Garnet story. Which comic did the Tornado originate in? The only one I've seen is the one in Big Smile's archive, which is from a Sonic 2 prologue and must have been adapted from the game, not the other way around.
The airplane is interesting because they kinda had aircraft elements from the very beginning with the Mary Garnet story. Which comic did the Tornado originate in? The only one I've seen is the one in Big Smile's archive, which is from a Sonic 2 prologue and must have been adapted from the game, not the other way around.
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Wow, I'm kind of amazed that a detail like this would be known to somebody actually working on a Sonic game, but not to Sonic super-nerds like us. I was more interested in that promo comic where Sonic had fangs, but I never would have imagined that a spin-off comic where Sonic was the Hulk-like protean alter-ego of a meek and nerdy young boy would be so relevant to the development of the franchise.Dr. BUGMAN wrote: The Tornado, too, predates Tails' appearance by several issues as Nikki's dad's airmail plane (hence the "faster than airmail" sign in Generations), indicating the obvious.
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Another weird thing about the Sonic robots is that Metal Sonic is the only that has persisted. The others have been forgotten about.
Mecha Sonic made some cameo appearances in Sonic Pocket Adventure, Rad Mobile and Sonic Adventure (although in Adventure his design was changed quite heavily so it might not be him).
But all of those were a decade ago. None of the Sonic robots have been heard from since. They don't even appear in the artwork galleries of games such as Sonic Rivals and Sonic Mega Collection (although the two Sonic 2 bots did resurface in Sonic Tweet).
It's really weird that they didn't feature in Sonic Generations, as their stages were in the game. Much like Amy in Sonic 3, I don't think it is any sort of conspiracy, but their continued absence is somewhat puzzling.
Mecha Sonic made some cameo appearances in Sonic Pocket Adventure, Rad Mobile and Sonic Adventure (although in Adventure his design was changed quite heavily so it might not be him).
But all of those were a decade ago. None of the Sonic robots have been heard from since. They don't even appear in the artwork galleries of games such as Sonic Rivals and Sonic Mega Collection (although the two Sonic 2 bots did resurface in Sonic Tweet).
It's really weird that they didn't feature in Sonic Generations, as their stages were in the game. Much like Amy in Sonic 3, I don't think it is any sort of conspiracy, but their continued absence is somewhat puzzling.
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
"Sonic Tweet," what! (I looked it up, hadn't heard of that one.)
I think it kinda goes along the lines I was thinking before, that they weren't really planning on bringing any of those robots back, like they weren't really "characters" in the designers' minds, or that they could always just make new robots if they needed them. Even Metal Sonic took a long time to reappear (so it seemed anyway, besides in Chaotix) and I'm sure they recognized that he was something of a fan-favorite when they did it.
I think it kinda goes along the lines I was thinking before, that they weren't really planning on bringing any of those robots back, like they weren't really "characters" in the designers' minds, or that they could always just make new robots if they needed them. Even Metal Sonic took a long time to reappear (so it seemed anyway, besides in Chaotix) and I'm sure they recognized that he was something of a fan-favorite when they did it.
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Yeah, I remember that story. Nikki's dad wears a similar flight jacket with Sonic's noggin emblazoned on the back. He was depicted as something of an in-universe fanboy, oblivious to the fact that Sonic is actually his son.G.Silver wrote: The airplane is interesting because they kinda had aircraft elements from the very beginning with the Mary Garnet story. Which comic did the Tornado originate in? The only one I've seen is the one in Big Smile's archive, which is from a Sonic 2 prologue and must have been adapted from the game, not the other way around.
The comic could've been inspired by the Mary Garnet story, or vice versa. I daren't conjecture this point, though.
I can't remember for certain if the plane had "SONIC" written on the side (considering the owner, it's likely), but it otherwise looked exactly like the Tornado (if not outright referred to as such; I'm pretty sure it was) and, again, no Tails so it couldn't have been about Sonic 2.
I really wished I saved those images!
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Oh, so it's something extra that's not in the archive I posted?I really wished I saved those images!
If so, do you know where they were posted originally?
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
I haven't downloaded your archive yet (I aim to eventually, when I can), but I'm guessing not. I read them from already posted dead sight:
I should just clam up at this juncture. I'm starting to feel like a schoolkid spreading hazily remembered info on the playground--even if my mind's usually a steel trap for utterly useless minutiae like this.
When it was active. I originally came across it from this thread (They were too busy bitching about translation style to notice, I guess). Yuski's your best bet at finding out the particulars, I'd imagine.G.Silver wrote:http://manga.portalsonic.com/
I should just clam up at this juncture. I'm starting to feel like a schoolkid spreading hazily remembered info on the playground--even if my mind's usually a steel trap for utterly useless minutiae like this.
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
I didn't see it in there, the Sonic 2 "caveman"-type comics were the only ones I saw from that series.
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Yuski (aka Xdragoon) very kindly provided the missing scans:
http://www.multiupload.nl/ACBHDA95MH
It's kind of mind-blowing. Back in the day, I would have probably been disappointed if someone like Princess Sally became a main game character. Yet, that's kind of what has happened, as Amy's design seems to have been lifted fully from the comic.
Tails' car from Sonic CD (on the "see you next game" screen) also seems to have come from the comic (although it could be a coincidence as there are some key differences in the design).
Unfortunately, there is no date on the comic, so it's hard to tell if Tails and the Tornado were also borrowed (although, I've seen interviews with the Sonic 2 team talking about the creation of Tails, so I am guessing he is a game original).
Apparently, there's more issues planned for a future release, so fingers crossed!
^_^
http://www.multiupload.nl/ACBHDA95MH
It's kind of mind-blowing. Back in the day, I would have probably been disappointed if someone like Princess Sally became a main game character. Yet, that's kind of what has happened, as Amy's design seems to have been lifted fully from the comic.
Tails' car from Sonic CD (on the "see you next game" screen) also seems to have come from the comic (although it could be a coincidence as there are some key differences in the design).
Unfortunately, there is no date on the comic, so it's hard to tell if Tails and the Tornado were also borrowed (although, I've seen interviews with the Sonic 2 team talking about the creation of Tails, so I am guessing he is a game original).
Apparently, there's more issues planned for a future release, so fingers crossed!
^_^
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
Does this mean I'm not nuts for thinking the SatAm cast would make good background characters for the games?
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
It is a bit mind-blowing, but it's also revealing to me that even now I don't think I would have minded, despite being a looney purist (or maybe because of that).It's kind of mind-blowing. Back in the day, I would have probably been disappointed if someone like Princess Sally became a main game character. Yet, that's kind of what has happened, as Amy's design seems to have been lifted fully from the comic.
At least to the mindset I had when Amy first appeared, if she were lifted from a comic that I didn't even like, her appearance in the game meant that Sonic Team had given her their blessing, and since they were the perfect creators of the perfect Sonic the Hedgehog, how could they possibly be wrong?! It's also significant that they didn't change the games or change Sonic to suit the new character, they changed her; her role and design and even personality basically make her the "Sonic Team version," and they didn't bring any extra comic baggage with her (no other characters, no "Nicky," etc). For contrast, consider when Sega of America changed Amy's name to "Princess Sally" for the US release: BLASPHEMY! (Also the whole thing with the soundtrack!) The difference is that one was a decision made by the original creators and the other was a move by an outside group to alter their obviously perfect creative vision.
Another case where "comic" elements may have been borrowed is the "Swatbots" seen in the Sonic OVA. We're seeing in these early comics that an army of humanoid robots is something that people were thinking about from a very early stage, but the OVA's robots always struck me as having been a little inspired by the Archie comics, with their little visors and grey coloring. Maybe it's just coincidence but it's something I always suspected. Anyway, the OVA generally does its own thing but it's pretty well-liked in the SegaSonic fandom, and I personally think those robots made a great addition despite my own suspicion that they originated in a comic/cartoon that I kind of despised. So for me at least, I would definitely have allowed for outside influences, as long as they appeared to have been processed by the people I felt needed to be in charge.
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
I think it also helps that the artist(s?) behind the manga was aware of the ball-and-rubber-hose silent-era cartoon influence that was at the core of Sonic's aesthetic. Classic Amy's Bobby Soxer fashion sense is straight-up WWII-era Americana -- even her nickname "Rosy the Rascal" is clearly a reference to Rosie the Riveter. Plenty of elements in the games proper can be construed as such throwbacks (tell me Wing Fortress would have looked out of place in a contemporaneous Indian Jones game). Art Deco is (or was) the franchise's DNA.
Archie/Fleetway on the other hand seem to fit an entirely different mold, like Usagi Yojimbo or Bucky O'Hare. And that's fine, I guess, if you're into that sort of thing. But the only character with four fingers and joints I care to see in Sonic's world is Fang, and that's 'cause he doesn't have -- among other incongruities -- delineated musculature and a stupid coiffed hairdo.
Though it's all kind of moot since Sonic is more Superflat, now, after Adventure. Fitting given his country of origin, sure, but ehhhhhhhhhhh..
Archie/Fleetway on the other hand seem to fit an entirely different mold, like Usagi Yojimbo or Bucky O'Hare. And that's fine, I guess, if you're into that sort of thing. But the only character with four fingers and joints I care to see in Sonic's world is Fang, and that's 'cause he doesn't have -- among other incongruities -- delineated musculature and a stupid coiffed hairdo.
Though it's all kind of moot since Sonic is more Superflat, now, after Adventure. Fitting given his country of origin, sure, but ehhhhhhhhhhh..
Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics
These are all good points. But back in the 90s there wasn't really a sense of a Sonic Team. The only known creators were Sega and they didn't seem to care about art style and gave their blessing to everything! For example, Dr Robotonik's Mean Bean Machine used the cartoon art style (and even featured the cartoon Eggman, or as I called him 'Wrong Robotnick'). Then Sonic & Knuckles came out later which reverted back to the original style. Around that time we had a range of games which used a mix of different styles (at least on the box artwork).
Of course now we know that different teams worked on different games. However, back in the day, if I knew about the Japanese comics, I think I would have found Amy to be as blasphemous as 'Wrong Robotnik" or Princess Sally.
^_^
Of course now we know that different teams worked on different games. However, back in the day, if I knew about the Japanese comics, I think I would have found Amy to be as blasphemous as 'Wrong Robotnik" or Princess Sally.
^_^