Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

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Crazy Penguin
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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Crazy Penguin »

Wrongbotnik.

I don't know what Sega of America was thinking by having three different Dr Robotnik designs in use at once. Talk about a brand identity nightmare. At least in Europe the SatAM/Archie/Underground Robotnik was generally disregarded in all merchandise.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by G.Silver »

These are all good points. But back in the 90s there wasn't really a sense of a Sonic Team.
Maybe to the mainstream, yeah, but I was 11 and had already read an interview with Sonic Team in EGM, so obviously I knew everything.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by big_smile »

Oooh! Do you still have the interview? Is that one where Naka talks about Sonic 2?
I don't know what Sega of America was thinking by having three different Dr Robotnik designs in use at once. Talk about a brand identity nightmare. At least in Europe the SatAM/Archie/Underground Robotnik was generally disregarded in all merchandise.
On the whole, European merchandise was fairly game faithfully. A lot of European artwork contained fairly accurate renditions of game zones and other elements. It always surprised me that they decided to adopt the cartoon Eggman.

^_^

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by G.Silver »

Boy, the internet just isn't the same since RetroMags lost their easy-access file hosting! (Couldn't find it at sonicretro either, though I did come across my name attached to more dubious Japanese translations! It's so weird to see that!) I was going to say a thing like "I'll dig it out of the box later..." but I'm just sitting here, really, sooo:

http://www.starquail.com/michael/egmv26p102.png
http://www.starquail.com/michael/egmv26p103.png

Sorry about the poor scans, I don't want to subject this poor old magazine to more scanner abuse than necessary and Retromags has a good scan of it somewhere, I'm sure. You can kinda guess what the first word on some of those lines is, anyway.

So this is an article from the Sept. 1991 issue of EGM, it isn't really an interview but claims to be made up of info taken from interviews. There's also very little regarding the creators of the game, so for me personally, as for the "celebritizing" of Sonic Team it could have been another one (from Sonic 2 time, most likely) or it could have just been speculation on the part of me and my friends based on the "Sonic Team Presents" at the start of the game (or it might simply have been the language journalists were using, making mention of "Sonic Team" etc), which was a thing we found endlessly interesting and definitely gave me a taste for developer/publisher awareness at an early age, and especially regarding Japanese developers, who seemed intangible and impossibly far away, although at the time (or previously, anyway) I made little distinction as to a game's origins or thoughts as to who had made it.

The only even remotely similar thing I had seen (or remember seeing) previously was a single article in Nintendo Power (up to that time I had every issue!) regarding Mario 3 where they spoke with Miyamoto back in 1990 (the "interview" aspect must have been interesting for Miyamoto since Mario 3 was already old news in Japan by then!) and showed a little bit of the "guts" of Mario 3's development (pixel art on graph paper, level maps, talk of meticulous data entry, the famous "Chain Chomp" origins, etc). It's definitely true that there wasn't much out there in terms of increasing the public's "developer awareness" at the time but those things that I did see were incredibly fascinating.

So back to this article, it's pretty standard stuff, but it does show some of Sonic's competitors as potential mascots, an image I've scanned for the internet before (big n' blurry), better ones have shown up since (I don't remember where I saw them or where they came from, though). What I find really interesting now is that they make the "important" team members Mr. Kanari (Manager, naturally, hogs the credit) and Ohshima, no one else is mentioned by name, not even Yuji Naka. I wonder if at the time, Naka had already made himself enough of a nuisance to SoJ's higher-ups and he'd already been kicked out, or was at least being left out of this sort of public discussion. He was still around in this little "interview" so it's weird that he isn't included here.

When you consider that perspective (probably someone has made this observation before), that Naka had been scooped up by Mark Cerny for work on Sonic 2 in the US, and how Naka was already gunning for recognition in Japan, it isn't surprising that he jumped at the chance to be given the spotlight for Sonic 2 and make a bigger name for himself, and being right there in the US at an American company with English speakers/translators all around, he would have been an easy target for journalists looking to get an interview and make a "character" out of him.

You also have to wonder what would have happened if he'd stayed quiet and humble in Japan.

Anyway sorry to kind of linger on the anecdotal/musing stuff but, well, you know..

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by G.Silver »

Also, here's that Nintendo Power Mario 3 article, because it is interesting (or at least charmingly nostalgic), and I happen to have it handy in digital form (thanks again, RetroMags):

http://www.starquail.com/michael/ninten ... eb_020.jpg
http://www.starquail.com/michael/ninten ... eb_021.jpg
http://www.starquail.com/michael/ninten ... eb_022.jpg
http://www.starquail.com/michael/ninten ... eb_023.jpg

This one is a lot more in-depth (obviously, with four pages) but I wasn't as receptive to it, after all, Mario ain't Sonic. :)

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by big_smile »

Thanks for posting! It's a treasure trove of awesome things.

As you mention, it's interesting that Naka is completely ignored, yet Mr. Kanari takes centre stage (especially because, as the series progressed, he fell to the wayside. He didn't even resurface when the team returned to Japan).

The photo of the clay model is neat, as I didn't think they would use something like that for a 16-bit 2D game.
I was also quite surprised to learn that they revised the game after CES. I knew the CES version was quite different, but I didn't realise that the changes were a result of play testing (I was under impression the CES build was different because it was unfinished).


Thanks again! ^_^

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Team Mecha »

You know what's really weird, Sally Acorn apparently originated from the games. Or at the very least that name did if not the actual character. In a sense Sally went from being a game character to comics only while Amy was pretty much the opposite.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by G.Silver »

I get what you mean but it's a pretty tenuous connection, the name was never actually attached to the games, only in material Sega of America produced to help sell the franchise to potential licensees. The stuff going on at SoA in this period is pretty interesting too (plenty of weird decisions going on, at least).

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by big_smile »

In a way, all those Freedom Fighter characters have a tenuous connection to the games. In the original concept for the cartoon the Japanese animal friends were (radically) reworked into the Freedom Fighter characters. That concept was dropped but the Freedom fighter idea was further reworked into the Satam characters.

It's a shame the animals friends never got a main role in any of the cartoons (or games for that matter). I always felt they would fit more in with the story of Sonic's world than the random human/animal characters that the games/cartoon/comics keep on using.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Team Mecha »

big_smile wrote:It's a shame the animals friends never got a main role in any of the cartoons (or games for that matter). I always felt they would fit more in with the story of Sonic's world than the random human/animal characters that the games/cartoon/comics keep on using.
I can't help but imagine that if there was a Sonic Chronicles 2, grown-up versions of them would've ironically become the resistance against the Eggman Empire during Sonic's absence. Bio-Ware loves dat world building afterall.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Rob-Bert »

And yet when I suggested that the Freedom Fighters could be used in the games as background characters, I got scoffed at.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by big_smile »

I can't help but imagine that if there was a Sonic Chronicles 2, grown-up versions of them would've ironically become the resistance against the Eggman Empire during Sonic's absence. Bio-Ware loves dat world building afterall.
I don't think so. The animal friends would have made perfect NPCs in the original. Instead Bioware decided to go the (sacrilegious) route of having random human characters as NPCs in the Green Hill Zone.
Bioware didn't seem to be that comfortable with the Sonic universe and so didn't really do their homework (For example, Green Hill Zone was presentedin a realistic style while Mystic Ruins had a cartoony look).
And yet when I suggested that the Freedom Fighters could be used in the games as background characters, I got scoffed at.
Those Satam character's just don't fit in with the Sonic games. The Sonic game characters have a distinctive style which the Satam cast don't share. The whole Freedom Fighter concept also has no relevance to the games.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Radrappy »

Rob-Bert wrote:And yet when I suggested that the Freedom Fighters could be used in the games as background characters, I got scoffed at.
your butt-hurtness brought a smile to my face

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Rob-Bert »

So that's what makes you happy, huh?

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Neo »

Everybody,we take pleasure in
rectal damage!

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ALL ABOUT THE SONIC

Post by G.Silver »

So not a comic, I'm not sure what this is, but I'm totally curious:

http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... m103097475

This is a yahoo.jp auction for "Marugoto Sonic Fan Book" (「まるごとソニックファンブック」) (Marugoto means "everything"), and mainly I'm just drawn to it by the the fact that it's got some of that screen saver art right there on the front page. That along with the classic style of the box art makes me think that the rest of the book might just be really gorgeous and interesting, or maybe some other, rarer art. (What was that European magazine with the art of Sonic and "friends" camping and other activities?) Or maybe nothing neat at all, I can't find anything else about the book online, I was able to find one other reference in a Japanese person's collection but that was just another (smaller) picture of the cover.

Image
Image

The contents read:

Game Soft All Catalog
Sonic CD
Sonic & Tails
Sonic Spinball (USA)
Arcade Sonic (USA)
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Developer Interview
Sonic History
"All About the Sonic"
Friends of Sonic World
Sonic Runs Around the World
Sonic Goods
Present Application Guideline (Maybe some kind of product registration?)

Based on the contents it must have been made in 1993, and you can see page numbering for a couple items on there so there must be quite a bit of space devoted to each topic.

Anyway just thought I'd put this here in case anyone has seen it anywhere or knows anything or also just thinks this sort of thing is interesting.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by big_smile »

Silv, on that auction page what does it say about the condition of the book (I think it says it is missing something)?

I am thinking of buying it (and scanning it for everyone to see of course), but I don't want to get it if it is missing pages.

^_^

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by G.Silver »

Heheh, I that seemed like another possible outcome. :) Have you bought stuff through yahoo.jp auctions before? The extra costs for going through those bidding services have always kinda killed it for me. (Too poor right now!)

It's a generic "this is a used product" type of warning, I looked at his other auctions they've all got the same description. There's a note saying if we want detailed status to just ask, so I went ahead and did, though I'm assuming it's in typical used Japanese book shape (which is to say, pretty good). I'll post back if he replies.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Popcorn »

big_smile wrote:Another weird thing about the Sonic robots is that Metal Sonic is the only that has persisted. The others have been forgotten about.
Metal Sonic is the only good "robot Sonic" character, and even then only the original Sonic CD version.

It's a very fresh and non-literal imagining of what's basically a cliched concept. The obvious thing to do is just do a scary robot version of Sonic with metal arms and legs and spikes and all that shit. That's what Sonic 2 MD, Sonic 2 MS and S3K all did. But Metal Sonic is super cool and compelling because he isn't that exactly. He looks like a Japanese consumer product, or a Ferrarri.

He doesn't run or spin or jump. All he is is a jet engine with useless puppet-like limbs attached to it. In Sonic CD, he never even attacks you directly; I'm not sure he even could. He just tries to go faster than Sonic. The Sonic CD animated sequences back this up, where the only "threat" he poses - and really the only problem Sonic doesn't overcome in the ending montage - is that he might outrun Sonic, that he might be "more" Sonic than Sonic himself. I think it's really cool and interesting that, in that animation, Sonic is losing.

He also doesn't have a personality, or at least never used to; he's just an object, and that makes him super-menacing. That's why this:

Image

is so much more compelling than this, ostensibly the same character design but now more toy-like and with a "scary" pose:

Image

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Popcorn »

I still have a soft spot for this lil' guy, though:

Image

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by G.Silver »

I really like his stretching arm. I saw a fanart portrayal recently that suggested it comes out of a compartment in his chest, a possibility I am down with.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by Crowbar »

I thought that was what it was meant to be. It pops out in a really weird place to be coming from a shoulder.

I like those thoughts on Metal Sonic, Popcorn.

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by G.Silver »

Looks like somebody snagged the book. Did you get it, Big Smile?

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by big_smile »

Aah! I thought I posted in this thread about the book, but I guess it didn't go through or something. Sorry for leaving you all hanging!

Anyway, the book arrived. Overall, it's a bit of a disappointment. (Although, I might be saying that because the third party handling fees caused it to be quite pricey!)

The main problem is that it's not really book but a magazine. Worse still, despite being an official product, the photos are really bad in quality. I first thought it was full of beta screen shots, as they look all weird, but it is because the publication has taken photographs from a TV screen.

I'll post scans later (hopefully this weekend, but it might slip to next) but in the mean time here is a rundown of the contents:

"Sonic the Hedgehog scenes"
Scattered through out the book are photos of real world Sonic exhibitions and events. The most interesting is the cowboy Sonic exhibition which features unseen artwork our favourite hedgehog as a native American.

16 Page Sonic CD feature
This makes up the bulk of the book.
It actually has some interesting items:
a) Story - The text of the story is completely different from the one in the game manual. It seems to feature lines of dialogue from Amy. (In the Japanese game manual, Amy was confined to the character profile section and was absent from the story). Could it be an alternative storyline?

b) Rounds/zone - the book confirms that in Sonic CD levels are called Rounds that are split into Zones (in contrast to traditional Sonic games where Zones are split into Acts).

Sonic & Tails
Two page feature on the Game Gear title. Nothing new.

Sonic Spinball/Sonic Arcade
Two page preview of these upcoming titles from CES. Spinball has the beta Eggman cutscenes. Nothing new here. (Interestingly, for Sonic Arcade, the author didn't press start on all 3 buttons, so only Ray and Sonic are present)

Sonic 1 & 2
8 page feature on the Mega Drive games (with a paragraph for the 8bit versions). Mainly focuses on cheats. Nothing new here.

Sonic Team Interview
Now this one is a surprise. This 4 page interview features 6 members of Sonic Team that I have never seen before (There's no Naka or Oshima). There is some new line artwork of Sonic and Tails running from a front angle, but it has been placed in the centre of the spread causing it to be virtually obscured.

Character profiles -
A massive 8 page character profile section, covering Sonic, Tails, Amy, Eggman, Metal Sonic and the animal friends. Most Sonic books tend to be limited to one sentence profiles , but, to its credit, this book has given each of the characters a whole paragraph of information. Sonic's one mentions Eggman several times, so I am not sure if there is a back story there (Sonic actually has two paragraphs, so surely it can't just be the usual stuff we see).

Metal Sonic has the words "3 CPU", so I am guessing it is a more technical profile.

The animals friends are called 'Sonic Team' (??). They are actually the highlight of the book, as they have previously unseen artwork. However, it's only marginally different from that in Sonic Jam, so it's not too exciting (and I think it has actually cropped up before on Sonic merchandise).

Seeing as this book focuses so heavily on Sonic CD and was released just after Sonic 2, it's only natural to expect the Sonic CD and Sonic 2 animals friends to be there. Well, guess what....?


Merchandise Section
12 page feature. It contains reader's letters taken from American publication EGM, which has a drawing of Sonic pushing Mario in a toilet. (Eh?)

We've seen all the merchandise before, except for two items:

a) Sonic 1 merchandise: A while ago, someone on Sonic Retro posted a Japanese pencil case, which contains part of the beta Sonic 1 story (in English!) (Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the link to it). It turns out that a whole range of this merchandise was produced and they all feature different parts of the story. Unfortunately, the dreadful photography means that only bits of the story are visible. The first is "Dr Eggman used his evil technology to imprison Sonic's friends in the robots that he created". The second is "[can't read] begins the battle of Sonic and Dr Eggman"

b) A lost Sonic the screensaver type scene! A jigsaw puzzle box (?) depicts Sonic, Picky, Flicky and Pocky sitting at a table in the Jungle at night. Floating in front of their faces is what appears to be planet Earth.
Unfortunately, the image is too small to make out clearly . It's also obscured by another box.


^_^

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Re: Sonic "Story Comics" and other comics

Post by big_smile »

Oh, I found that Sonic Retro pencil case link:
http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php? ... 0747&st=60

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