The GHZ Forum

But I'm a decent person! I deserve it!

I know we don't do a lot of speculation on this board, but what extra features would you want in a remade mobile S3&K? There's not really a lot of extra cut material from which to draw inspiration like there is in Sonic 2... All of that from Sonic 3 was pretty much wrapped into Sonic & Knuckles.

An alternative multiplayer mode where you can race throughout the levels from single player mode would probably be my biggest wish. That and some more Tails-exclusive caches / routes.

Or is it more that you guys just want a well-made and ultra-handy copy of S3&K to take around?

I think it's the latter.

Fans have already made a comprehensive sort of "ultimate" S3K with Sonic 3 Complete. I imagine it would have been something like that, although probably some of the customization options available would be seen as excessive. (It's the only Sonic hack I know of that allows you to remove the spin dash!)

Yes, with full support for HD resolution and maybe like the PC soundtrack as a bonus option. Stuff like that.

Segaholic2 wrote:and maybe like the PC soundtrack

Wait what.

The PC version had some different songs in it, and if I recall correctly they specifically replaced the ones thought to have been written by Michael Jackson.

G.Silver wrote:Michael Jackson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OWC5Hosv8

Really now?

I think the bewilderment is, who would want the PC tracks?

Notwithstanding the nostalgia value to us weaned on this version, the only tracks I'd argue are an improvement over the original are Launch Base Zone's (Though for the life of me I can't not think of the Mickey Mouse Club March theme whenever I hear it). It's shit as a final theme, yes, but if you're playing the PC version it isn't a final zone (unless you're some weirdo who doesn't play lock-on). MD Launch Base is too short not to be monotonous.

...That, and they didn't even use the best PC-exclusive tune!

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:Notwithstanding the nostalgia value to us weaned on this version, the only tracks I'd argue are an improvement over the original are Launch Base Zone's (Though for the life of me I can't not think of the Mickey Mouse Club March theme whenever I hear it). It's shit as a final theme, yes, but if you're playing the PC version it isn't a final zone (unless you're some weirdo who doesn't play lock-on). MD Launch Base is too short not to be monotonous.

The monotony is the best part of that song. A paced, repetitive tune makes a perfect ambient track for a labor-intensive process that is the restoration of Death Egg, and those Ribots groove to it quite well. Try listening to act 1 while watching your car getting fixed to see what I mean. While I like the PC version, that stuff's more like, "yaay! The liberation / Santa / cake is finally here!"

Wombatwarlord777 wrote:...That, and they didn't even use the best PC-exclusive tune!

Yeah, that's my favorite too. I thought it would fit a title screen or a try again ending quite well, frankly I'm surprised this hasn't seen any use.

I always assumed the reason they replaced some tracks for the PC version was because those tracks all featured prominent audio samples and thus couldn't be recreated very well in general MIDI. (Launch Base, Carnival Night, Knuckles theme, and the credits music all had vocal samples, and Ice Cap had those wooshy snow-shifting sfx.)

Esrever wrote:I always assumed the reason they replaced some tracks for the PC version was because those tracks all featured prominent audio samples and thus couldn't be recreated very well in general MIDI. (Launch Base, Carnival Night, Knuckles theme, and the credits music all had vocal samples, and Ice Cap had those wooshy snow-shifting sfx.)

That was the PR excuse. The truth is more likely to be that those tracks are infringing on copyrighted songs which Brad Buxer and the rest of the composers quickly cobbled together when MJ jumped ship. Ice Cap is a carbon copy of Hard Times as I posted above, and the credits theme is a dead ringer for Stranger In Moscow. Carnival Night samples directly from Jam. There's probably others we don't know about, just like we didn't know about Hard Times until a few months ago.

The whole music rights thing sounds pretty bull to me. This Jetzons track was unreleased, and used the theme from it for Ice Cap Zone 12 YEARS after they recorded that, under the direction of Buxer. Without some sort of agreement, I'd say that he basically gave it away to SEGA. Same goes for Jackson, as he didn't seem to care so long as his name wasn't slapped onto the inferior audio. Stranger in Moscow is probably more suspect to legal scrutiny since it came out after Sonic 3, but was likely left alone since there was little reason to rock that boat( MJ didn't ask for any credit or royalties for the Sonic 3 stuff, so no need to bug him for a song that used some elements from it).

I'm confused... Who in particular cares here? Legally, that is. It all reminds me of the Earthbound music arguments, where apparently the game could never be released because of all the sampling/riffs. Then they released it on VC and found out that no one really gives a damn. Because, y'know, those companies have more important crap to do.


Still quite interesting though!

Taxman posted this on Sonic Retro:

Gene's right that the community team regulars have their ears to the ground and lookout for feedback, and if you particularly feel they should act on something it's always worth politely bringing it to their attention. Obviously, not everything is possible though, there's lots of factors behind the scenes that affect what projects eventuate. Also bear in mind that the division of Sega that handles most of the mobile titles (Sega Networks) is actually separate from the main SOA branch. So depending on what platforms you want to provide feedback for, getting in touch with the right representatives would also be of benefit.

Re: S3k, Stealth & I did create a spiffy RSDK prototype a while ago, but it's sitting neatly on a shelf for now. We'd be happy to develop it further one day if the opportunity came up, but right now I'm personally busy on some other new and challenging things!

This suggests that it isn't a rights issue. Which I find baffling because all of Taxman's ports have been money spinners, so why is Sega saying 'no' to more cash?
Then again, I guess if it was a rights issue, he wouldn't be able to talk about it (although his comments don't even hint at that, so it seems unlikely).

To celebrate the 20th anniversary of Sonic & Knuckles (and by extension, S3&K), Whitehead posted a proof of concept for a reversioning of S3&K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct1cErthI6s

I think after Taxman showed Sega his Sonic CD proto, Sega weren't completely sure about the idea. Then when he posted a video of it, the fan demand made them change their mind.

Using a remix is a clever idea, as he can say that after seeing the video, fans demanded a remixed soundtrack, which would get around any potential rights issues.

There's this blog post by Stealth:
http://hcstealth.tumblr.com/post/100311 ... nniversary

Planned new features included turning the 2P levels into proper stages, online competition mode, green and pink spheres for the Special Stage plus enhancements to both the animations and level select.

It seems Sonic 3 is more involved than the other games, so it could be development costs and not legal issues that are the hold up.

The post also has a translation of the Sonic 3 manual pages.

Y'know, I never thought to question what, exactly, those things falling out of the vending machine were. Weren't gumballs Sonic's original favorite food (I swear I remember reading that somewhere)?

Also, I swear I've had gumballs with prizes within them, too.

You may be thinking of mint candy being Tails' favorite food.

The Sonic 3 section of Mega Collection's manual calls them "gumballs", but I guess you can think of them as capsules that contain power-ups. Like one of those prize machines that give out toys or little trinkets.

It doesn't help that the same sprites in the rolling ball bonus stage rise like bubbles. What are these these things.

Also, I swear I've had gumballs with prizes within them, too.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Wonder Balls? Or is this some sort of non-American phenomenon?

Rob-Bert wrote:You may be thinking of mint candy being Tails' favorite food.

Not quite; I remembered the mint candy thing (kinda hard to forget due to their importance in Sky Patrol), and, of course, there's grapes for Knuckles. So I guess I figured Sonic had to have one, too, pre-DiC.

It might it's one of those crazy-ass conjectures I've read wayback when on Sega's forums.

Wombatwarlord777 wrote: Are you sure you aren't thinking of Wonder Balls?

That's it! It's hard to believe 2000 was nearly fifteen years ago, but I don't think any company would put something inedible within a foodstuff nowadays -- that just screams liability in our litigious age.

I feel old now.

Well, that's technically what Kinder Surprise Eggs are nowadays, right? And how they're like a banned import that can get your ass arrested if you even accidentally try to bring them into the US?

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:That's it! It's hard to believe 2000 was nearly fifteen years ago, but I don't think any company would put something inedible within a foodstuff nowadays -- that just screams liability in our litigious age.

I feel old now.

You're thinking of the Nestlé Magic Ball, which featured a plastic ball underneath the chocolate, which it turn contained a plastic toy. Since it turned out this product violated certain health & safety laws (what a shock, right?), they later replaced it with a different product called the Wonder Ball, which was just a chocolate ball containing little Smarties-esque candies.

Yami CJMErl wrote:Well, that's technically what Kinder Surprise Eggs are nowadays, right? And how they're like a banned import that can get your ass arrested if you even accidentally try to bring them into the US?

Gotta say, kids in US must have enormous gaping holes where their mouths should've been to even consider eating the "yolk" of those. Then again I'm surprised we still get them in Europe, the potential for misuse is astounding. In practice, rock candy is much more dangerous tho', and it was never moved for ban as far as I know - I remember bubble gum being much more of a kids-will-choke-on-it issue when that was a thing, but that was before Wrigley's cornered the market with spoof dentists and carcinogenic baking soda replacements.

Or is this a drug smuggling thing? Because Happy Hippo and Crazy Turtles do sound sort of suspicious now that I think about it.

Noooo, pretty sure it's just the "kids-will-choke-on-it" thing.