The GHZ Forum

Ahh guys there is a whole big Sonic 3-style Knuckles-and-Tails only route through act 3 of Marble Zone now! It's so fun going back to a game you know so well and finding these new areas using the new characters' abilities... just like it was finding them with the old lock-on business back in the day.

WHAT?! Sega can we please get this on steam or psn or something that is not a phone??

Here's a spoiler-y video of the area. (Although this guy got there using the Sonic & Tails together player option.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es1wNp6TA4M

Just finished up with Knuckles and all the emeralds after getting them with everyone else. All in all, pretty great! I think the widescreen helps address the complaints a lot of first-timers have that the game doesn't let you see far enough ahead when going top speed.

Also, is it just me, or does Knuckles seem sort of... Achewood-y here?

So the Sonic 1 port(along with every other Sonic game on the app stores)is on sale for a dollar this week in celebration of Sonic's 22nd. iOS as well but I picked this up on Android for my Galaxy Nexus. It's really great! However I can't seem to get any controller I have synced to it, so have been rolling with touch controls (Something about Android 4.2 removing the hooks with which those programs connected... one of the reasons I went pure Android was to avoid stuff like that. Ironic!). Labyrinth Zone's boss is near impossible to get past, but besides that it's spectacular. Now just need to look into getting a good freerange bluetooth controller... too bad they are all terribly overpriced and rather impractical.

Also grabbed Sonic Jump out of curiosity. It's good, but pretty nickel and dimey for an app with an upfront purchase. Also has those nega-achievements which go against the main objectives (Get Killed By A Badnik 3 Times!), which is a sin. Despite that the mechanics are pretty neat to start with and I think the in-app purchase things are a hindrance to enjoyment. Don't know how much of the original Sonic Jump is left in there but it's fun to play it after all this time in some form.

Sonic 4 Ep 1 and 2 are up there as well... think it's worth the couple dollar curiosity purchase or is my life better without trying them?

Sonic 4 Ep 1 and 2 are up there as well... think it's worth the couple dollar curiosity purchase or is my life better without trying them?

Sonic 4 is like a compilation of all the worst bits of the Sonic Advance games: Bland level design, a lack of interesting set pieces, an overuse of bottomless pits, too much reliance on speed gimmicks that are over-repeated, too many 'Sonic by proxy sections' (where you control don't Sonic directly but instead have to move him by controlling Tails or a mine cart) and hideous graphics.

It's the first time I've played a video game and felt a sense of resentment, as if Dimps felt that making a classic game was beneath them. I half expected the developers to magically jump out of the game and force a physical copy down my throat, shouting something along the lines of 'You wanted a classic Sonic game? Here, take it! Take it!'.

It would be neat if Taxman/Stealth were given the chance to remake the game in the retro engine. They could keep the level themes the same, but improve the level design (and by improve, I mean scrap it and start over) and use Mega Drive style graphics.

Ah, so pretty much the same feelings I had playing the demo sometime back. It felt really really bad to me from the get-go, in the same way the Sonic 06 demo did, but apparently was the more insulting final product of the two due to it leveraging a facade of the classics; Unworthy of even an ironic play through due to it's soullessness.

Coming from a long time of seeing you post big smile, it's strange to hear you so vocal! Not bad at all, just interesting since you often have quite a profesional tone. If Sonic 4 insulted you, then you can be sure it sucked!

big_smile wrote:

Sonic 4 Ep 1 and 2 are up there as well... think it's worth the couple dollar curiosity purchase or is my life better without trying them?

Sonic 4 is like a compilation of all the worst bits of the Sonic Advance games: Bland level design, a lack of interesting set pieces, an overuse of bottomless pits, too much reliance on speed gimmicks that are over-repeated, too many 'Sonic by proxy sections' (where you control don't Sonic directly but instead have to move him by controlling Tails or a mine cart) and hideous graphics.

I'm surprised you didn't mention the way Sonic controls. Even if they'd gotten everything else perfect, Sonic's tank-like movement in Episode I would still make the whole thing almost unplayable.

Dash wrote: If Sonic 4 insulted you, then you can be sure it sucked!

That and Sonic Unleashed (Xbox/PS3). Bad games like Sonic 06 and Shadow usually have some redeeming features, but I just can't find anything good in Sonic 4 and Sonic Unleashed!

I'm surprised you didn't mention the way Sonic controls. Even if they'd gotten everything else perfect, Sonic's tank-like movement in Episode I would still make the whole thing almost unplayable.

Lots of people disliked the physics and the controls, but they didn't actually bother me. They were bad, but I didn't find them annoying.

I think the core problem with Sonic 4 was that it seems to have been designed as an iPhone game and then ported to the home platforms (although I don't have any evidence to support this theory). I can see why from a business point of view they did this, but the first numerical Sonic game in 16 years deserved better. They should have just released it as a mobile exclusive, called it something else and then used the cash generated to make a proper home console Sonic 4 (perhaps using the classic Sonic engine from Sonic Generations).

big_smile wrote:I half expected the developers to magically jump out of the game and force a physical copy down my throat, shouting something along the lines of 'You wanted a classic Sonic game? Here, take it! Take it!'.

Sonic 4 is the most cynical and insulting Sonic game, and that's saying a lot. It's worse even than Shadow the Hedgehog, the game so crass I thought its announcement was an April fool's joke, because Sonic 4 is calculated to appeal directly to me.

"Look: checkered hills! Those spindash wheel things from Marble Garden! That snare sound! And all in glorious 2D! Isn't this what you've wanted all this time?" Never has a video game ever so catastrophically missed the point. It is a hollow, joyless, vicious shit of a game.

And now we all dwell in this ever-deepening pit of regressive, nihilistic "retro" shit and pretend to like it. As if we asked for it. We did ask for it. It's our fault.

Locit wrote:

THE QUICKENIIIIIIING!!!

Popcorn wrote:And now we all dwell in this ever-deepening pit of regressive, nihilistic "retro" shit and pretend to like it. As if we asked for it. We did ask for it. It's our fault.

Sad, but true. I hesitate to completely blame the people they keep listening to though; they don't keep making these terrible games.

The nicest thing I can say about Sonic 4 is that they kindly provide a free demo to warn you not to actually buy it.

Popcorn wrote:Never has a video game ever so catastrophically missed the point. It is a hollow, joyless, vicious shit of a game.

Ah, see, this. I missed this. Good to have you back, Pop.

This was posted a while ago, but it's only been noticed now.

According to Taxman's Twitter, there's wont be a remake of Sonic 3 & K:

Taxman wrote:For the dedicated fans asking for S3k remastered - I do see your tweets/mail. Sadly it's not likely at this time. Thx for the support tho!

I'm guessing there must be some music licensing issues that make it too prohibitive (Although, I've never understood the S3K music issues, as Sonic Jam and Sonic Pocket Adventure both used the sound tracks).
The mobile remakes were so good that I would have been happy with new soundtracks to replace the problem ones.

There's also no news on console ports, so it seems it's the end for these excellent remakes.

Incidentally, the M2 Sega 3D remakes have suffered from poor sales so their future is also in doubt.

And yet poor sales aren't stopping their continued release in Japan, what's that about? An aspect of game business I simply do not understand is how they can ever expect to save money by not releasing an already-made game in another region if it's digital-only. I know some localization always needs to happen, but we're talking about such a minuscule amount as far as being related to the game itself goes, it almost seems like there must be some sort of minimum bureaucracy-mandated pocket-lining within Sega that has to happen first. (And those ESRB ratings ain't free!)

Still, I'll remain optimistic until the full line is out in Japan and we still don't have them over here (that was the case for the first series).

Does Taxman have anything to say about those Sonic 1 and 2 ports ever showing up on PC? Or maybe even the new home consoles?

G.Silver wrote:(And those ESRB ratings ain't free!)

This. It costs several hundreds of dollars to get a game rated for release, and the price only goes up if you want to release it in Europe, Australia, and very specifically Germany (thanks, USK). So when you're selling your game at a scant five bucks a unit, you'd better be damned sure you have enough buyers to at least break even. And I'm guessing SEGA's western branches aren't interested unless there's a sizable guaranteed profit, so yeah.

Did the ESRB drop this free rating for digital games policy? If not, I'm not sure what Sega's issue is. Maybe it just conflicts with the Sonic/Alien/Football Manager initiative.

That said, are retro games selling okay in general? I get the impression that a lot of people just aren't willing to part with 5 dollars for a 25 year old game anymore, or even a buck on Android/iOS! We'll all gladly pay for a good Sonic port, surely, but what they really want is for kids to flock to the older material like the latest Disney remaster of Aladdin or some-such. That's where the money is. Could the game industry pull that off? I think Nintendo gets it, as the lightly touched ports of Ocarina on 3DS and Wind Waker on Wii U have done decent numbers even with the full retail asking price.

Not letting Taxman finish the trilogy of ports is pretty cruel. It's pretty clear that they would have gotten the whole collection onto consoles/Steam somehow once it was done. He had the balls to make what I consider console quality ports on mobile though, and that whole environment is better for it.

Dash wrote: That said, are retro games selling okay in general? I get the impression that a lot of people just aren't willing to part with 5 dollars for a 25 year old game anymore, or even a buck on Android/iOS! We'll all gladly pay for a good Sonic port, surely, but what they really want is for kids to flock to the older material like the latest Disney remaster of Aladdin or some-such. That's where the money is. Could the game industry pull that off? I think Nintendo gets it, as the lightly touched ports of Ocarina on 3DS and Wind Waker on Wii U have done decent numbers even with the full retail asking price.

Yes, I think the pricing of the Sega 3D games was a big issue. And although M2 put a lot of effort into them, they were essentially just emulated games with a 3D effect, which isn't that compelling. It's a shame they couldn't have used the Retro engine for the 3D Sonic game, as they probably would have been able to include more features with less effort.

---

Regarding Taxman, this was posted by the Sonic Retro admins.

>Taxman working on something Sonic related

You all could not be more off. It's more a long-needed re-release for a franchise that feels like it was forgotten after it was modernized.

This sounds interesting. I'd love it to be Streets of Rage, but that was never modernized (unless you count the Bare Knuckle mobile game).

Sounds more like Golden Axe.

Crazy Penguin wrote:Sounds more like Golden Axe.

I was going to maybe say Phantasy Star (with a not-so-subtle nod at PSO2's vaporware existence outside of Japan), but what's so special about any of these franchises that can't be solved by slapping together an emulator and a ROM and selling it for 5 bucks? From a business perspective, anyway.

There are far more likely candidates, such as Saturn or even arcade titles (F-Zero! lol), but the Retro Engine was built for 2D games. Right?

Neo wins, the mystery title is Phantasy Star, but according to Taxman, it's also a joke

Taxman wrote:Hate to disappoint you guys, but Gene & friends [the Sonic Retro Admins] are just pulling your leg

Somewhat addressing what's been said in the topic: Sonic 1 & 2 have exceeded expectations (particularly when you consider they have been released as free updates to the years old versions on iOS), so I'm really grateful for everyone's support and love for these projects - you guys rock!

Sonic Threemastered is something that I consistently get asked about, and something we know a lot of people would like to see happen. I prefer to avoid goofy PR talk and be clear with my game development, but obviously there's a limit to this with confidential information that is not yours to share. So 'unlikely at this time' is the best answer you'll get from me.

One thing personally I'd share about my own dev work is that prototypes & paper concepts for stuff get made regularly in between cycles - for the games you have seen, there's been others that never see the light of day. By the end of this month I will have done 3 protos this year (one of which was with Stealth), and have something else I'd like to do too hah.

Anyway, when you do eventually see something I work on (and/or Steath), hopefully you'll like it!

So he is working on something, but we don't know what. Although when Sega announced Sonic 1, they did mention remakes for other games.

but what's so special about any of these franchises that can't be solved by slapping together an emulator and a ROM and selling it for 5 bucks? From a business perspective, anyway.

Sega did start releasing emulated games on mobile and on home platforms. However, emulation doesn't work that well on mobile (especially on phones with budget hardware).
Plus, a remake will attract a much larger audience than an emulated release. In the past, remakes were too cost prohibitive, but because Taxman did the bulk of the work in his own time by creating the Retro Engine, it makes sense to capitalize on his work. (That's one of the reasons I was excited for the fan retexturing of Shenmue. If a fan is happy to the hard work at no cost, there's a chance Sega would consider publishing it. Admittedly, it's a very slim chance, but Sega tends to be much more open to such ideas).

ARGH. All I want is all the Genesis Sonic games remade by this guy on my console or PC! I'm a decent person, I deserve this!!!!

No you're not.

Shut up, you!