Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

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Dr. BUGMAN
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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

So, extremely late to the party here, but I finally got Sonic 1&2 remasters, 1 from a holiday special and 2 preloaded (I assume illegally) on my device. Aside from a few "hiccups" from 2, most notably an Oil Ocean cannon launching me off screen into a soft lock, it's spot on. Ironically, the totally legit 1 feels off somehow, like Sonic accelerates too fast. In the first SS in the original you could get to the CE without touching the controls, it cannot be done here. And I can't be the only one to notice that if Sonic jumps half-submerged, he rockets upward at high velocity.

CD isn't available for android for some reason, though? Anyway, watching a vid of it, I notice Amy doesn't deflect off Sonic if he has a barrier like she did in earlier versions.

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Dr. BUGMAN
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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

OK, just unlocked Knuckles and glided underwater, there's /definitely/ something off with the acceleration with Sonic 1. Also, Knux often can't clamber over some cliffs. Neither of these are in Sonic 2. I was under the impression they where updating based on user feedback, but these glaring flaws were surely noticed by all and sundry. What gives?

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Locit »

Dr. BUGMAN wrote:In the first SS in the original you could get to the CE without touching the controls
Holy fucking shit.

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Jingles
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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Jingles »

I just tried to do it on the MD original and I slammed face-first into a goal bobbin (albeit, in the same room as the emerald). Maybe not?

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by G.Silver »

I've known you could get into the room by not touching the controls for a long time, but I always had to take control once there. I think leaving it alone for a bit would also get me really close for Special Stages 2 and 3 as well.

I mentioned hearing that the physics were off in another thread (something I have zero tolerance for) but it sounded from others that being able to play as Tails and Knuckles (you know, the way it was meant to be played) was more important.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by big_smile »

I read somewhere that mobile phones aren’t an ideal platform for games like Sonic that require precise controls, as different touch screens/bluetooth controllers register inputs slightly differently, which can result in inconsistent movement of characters.

That might explain why there haven’t been that many complaints about the physics in these mobile ports - perhaps it’s only a small number of devices that register the inputs differently enough to effect Sonic’s movement (Although Dr Bugman mentions that Sonic 2 plays spot on, so maybe not).

I personally haven’t noticed any major differences in the physics (at least nothing that stands out to spoil the experience). Although, I grew up on the PAL versions and apparently they play slightly differently too!

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by gr4yJ4Y »

Locit wrote:
Dr. BUGMAN wrote:In the first SS in the original you could get to the CE without touching the controls
Holy fucking shit.
I tried this on M2'a 3D versions a second ago (both Japanese and international versions) and it didn't get me there.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Opa-Opa »

I loved the S1 and 2 mobile remakes and they stand for me as the best versions of the games so far. M2's 3D Sonic 1 is perfect except for a slight but far more noticeable mistake that happens when Sonic is going faster than his normal running speed (say, if you go down a slope, for example) and you press forward, he will actually reduce his speed to match his regular maximum speed. That, to me, is far worse than every tiny mistake from the mobile remakes (most of which I never noticed).

Never heard about getting the Chaos Emerald without touching the controls. =/

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by G.Silver »

That's not an error, at least not in porting. Sonic 1 always had that quirk to it.

Now that I think about it I wonder if that's why I felt like the roll was de-emphasized in other games? Rolling was always the sure fire way to keep your speed in Sonic 1 I never really questioned why that was...

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Opa-Opa »

G.Silver, I just tried it on the original Sonic 1 and you're right! Never noticed that before! I guess they did change that on later games. I think it's for the best.

Also, tried the Special Stage thing and it's true, you can get to the Chaos Emerald room without touching the pad, but you have to take control from there or else you'll headslam into a Goal tile.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

I wrote "get to" not "get". I assumed it was obvious the -- what's it called officially? -- crystal barrier would cause you to roll off. And yeah, not touching the controls at the beginning of SS 3 was my got to strategy for the original; in the mobile you're sure to plummet like a rock into a goal.

And I'm not entirely confident in calling sonic 2 "spot on"; I could just be conditioned to feel it's faster than s1. S2 not having a convenient litmus test probably help its case. Though did Super Sonic have a lower speed cap if he broke a speed shoe monitor in the original? I also don't remember being crushed so often, especially in gaps that are static or increasing.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Majestic Joey »

Just started playing sonic 1 with knuckles on my iPhone. I can confirm that yes, gliding underwater feels messed up. Knuckles has the same momentum and speed as if he was gliding out of the water, which is weird because his normal movements underwater are all slowed down like how its supposed to be.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Neo »

But that's exactly how it was in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by big_smile »

The remakes are being re-released as free-to-play supported titles under the Sega Forever banner (although you can pay a fee to remove ads).

Most of the Sega Forever titles have got a bad rap and Sega seem tone deaf to the problems (as demonstrated by this interview). However, the Sonic remakes seem to have fared well (probably because they aren't emulated), although there have been reports of controller issues.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Jingles »

I don't understand why they didn't just port the games to consoles. If they kept them the same price as they were on mobile, I'm sure they'd make just as much as the Sega Forever stuff does, and would have a much better reputation to boot.

It's pretty crazy that you still can't play a single Sonic game on any of the current-gen consoles unless you're willing to use PS Now (and deal with significant input lag as a result).

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

Are the ads gone for those who already paid? I don't want to redownload to find out that I gotta pay again.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Malchik »

I assumed the remakes were on consoles, too.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by big_smile »

There's been talk of porting Sega Forever to consoles. Although I guess that might not apply to the Sonic remakes as they aren't emulated.
Dr. BUGMAN wrote:Are the ads gone for those who already paid? I don't want to redownload to find out that I gotta pay again.
When you download Sega Forever, it gives you an option to restore your previous purchase, which removes the ads. Strangely if you do this, it puts two versions of the app on your device: One with ads and without.

To be honest, if you still have the original, stick with that.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

https://youtu.be/DFq3iQ6wNrQ

So evidently the smooth 60fps rotation in S1's Special Stage can be achieved on original hardware, suggesting the original choppy rotation was very much intentional.

A lot of Tax-Stealth's alterations do come across as needlessly biased. Which may be desirable for a new game like Mania, but isn't ideal in terms of preservation.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

I know how much y'all love my continued bumping of this dusty thread, but I just learned from this video that Spinball's source code still exists. Nearly all of the non-ST MD Sonic games have fortuitously preserved SC, yet Sega won't remaster them. The video also mentions Ecco, but at least in that case Sega have the excuse of not owning the IP.

The mind reels.

Also, belated RIP to The GHZ's original home, EmuParadise.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by big_smile »

Wasn't the Spinball source code used to make the GBA version that was released early on in the handheld's life? It couldn't have been emulated as the system didn't have the power.
Although Sonic Team must have had the source code of the original Sonic games in order to make Sonic Jam, so if they managed to suddenly lose it between that and Mega Collection, then who knows if the Spinball code is still around.

Christian Whitehead once mentioned in an interview that his producer at Sega discussed talking about doing a Spinball remaster. I believe Christian said that he wanted to do the game as a sequel to improve on the original. But the discussions didn't seem to go anywhere.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

I didn't even know there was a GBA port. If it does indeed exist, Mobygames, GameFAQs, SonicRetro, and even this site's museum page somehow don't acknowledge it. The gamasutra article that mentions it is the only source aside from you I've ever heard of it.

As for the code itself, Sega presumably never held onto it at all; this was done unofficially by one of the Sega Technical Institute employees. If it weren't for his initiative it wouldn't exist at all, not at all unlike what Jon Burton did with his work.

There was no doubt some chauvinistic pride for the Sonic Team games, so Sega holding onto those SCs however briefly is not terribly mystifying.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

The aforementioned Gamasutra article.

I feel kinda letdown that I wasn't cognizant of Sega Smash Pack when it was retailing. It looks decent for what it is! Sound quality aside (which to be fair the GBA is notoriously for). To think that an unassuming outsourced project inadvertently saved this game from oblivion.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by big_smile »

It's nice to know the story behind the Spinball port, so thanks for posting that.

Smash pack didn't get a wide release in Europe, so I missed out on it too. I believe Comic Zone was also later ported to the GBA, but again with a limited release. It's almost like Inforgrammes (the publisher back then) wanted these games to fail.

Regarding the missing source code for the classic games: I've always been dubious about this. It's fandom lure that dates back to an interview Naka made during Mega Collection which no one has a copy of. I think fans are just mis-remembering.

Given how business minded Naka was, I suspect he would have personally kept a copy of the source code so he could milk his creations (especially because that's exactly what he did with Sonic Jam).

I seem to vaguely remember a developer from the original Java mobile ports posting on Sonic Retro to say that he did have the source code, but I can't find it now.

I think the only reason we haven't seen any proper ports after Sonic Jam is because it's much easier to do emulation. And then when Taxman came to it, he already had his own engine which was designed specifically for mobile platforms, so it was probably better than trying to port over ancient code.

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Re: Sonic 1 and 2 getting Sonic CD style remakes

Post by Dr. BUGMAN »

So Sega greenlit remasters based on fan reverese-engineered code rather than supplying the originals. That does seem characteristic of them, honestly. Although I'm no programmer, so I do wonder if the remasters would feel more like the original MD versions if they weren't based on educated guestimates, or if the alterations are reflective of Whitehead's and et al's tastes, or possibly just necessities stemming from the hardware.

Maybe I should stop looking at these with a preservationist's eye.

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