The GHZ Forum

I think some people were already talking about Skyward Sword in the "what are you playing now" thread, but I thought Zelda deserved its own topic, so here it is.

I'd been looking forward to sitting down with Uncharted 3 over the winter break, but my parents forgot to send it in the last care package. Even if they send it now, I won't have time to play it again until March, so it looks like I'm spending the holidays with Link and company. I could do worse than that, I guess.

I only just finished the first dungeon, but so far I'm having a hard time rewiring my mind to use the new motion control layout. It works pretty good in combat - it's still too imprecise to feel really organic, but at least it creates plenty of new ways to attack enemies. Just roaming around slashing grass and rolling into trees, on the other hand, I often find myself pressing the wrong buttons. It doesn't feel intuitive to me, but someone who has never played a Zelda game before might disagree, so it might be unfair for my "old gamer" mind to make a judgment. I can say that my wrist hurts from all that flicking, though.

Oh yeah, and apparently Link has asthma now. He can only run for like 6 seconds before running out of breath. Maybe it's the high altitude?

I actually don't think it looks as good as Twilight Princess, but that was a few years ago and maybe my standards have changed. It's got an "open" overworld like Wind Waker, which I actually don't think is as interesting as a linear one, but as long as I don't have to play a fucking ditty every time I want to change directions, I guess I'm okay with it.

Of course the main challenge for me is interpreting the dialogue. I can usually handle it until someone starts going on about the history and backstory, which involves a lot of difficult words and long sentences. Either way, it's like mixing homework with my game, which sucks, but しょうがない. One day it'll get easier, or so I keep telling myself. At any rate, Zelda seems out of character. Has she ever been a romantic interest for Link before? Usually there's some other chick to fill that MacGuffin. And she's not even a princess this time.


At any rate, I will wait for the bronchodilator power-up before passing final judgment.

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http://club.nintendo.jp/present/itempop_p137.html

I think this is the only time I've really cared about Zelda as a character. Sure, she's not her usual royal, knowledgeable and quasi-holy self, but in turn, she's much more relatable and less bland. She acts like your typical girl next door, and since she's been Link's best friend since they were little, it kind of makes you feel more committed to saving her. They took this stereotypical princess and turned her into an enjoyable character with a much more diverse personality, and I think that really shows in the beginning of the story through her interactions with Link and the others. I'm not ready to say that it's a good idea to make her Link's love interest, but I like how they had the balls to try and do something different with her again.

The game itself is cool too. It's not as different as I thought it would be, but I've only gotten to the door of the third dungeon so far. One thing I find kind of funny is that, when it comes to NPCs, this game is the opposite of Twilight Princess: everyone but the sidekick feels developed and sympathetic. I can actually remember everyone I've met so far. Twilight Princess gave us very boring, generic characters, except perhaps for that bug girl due to her sheer weirdness. And then there was Midna, of course. But the sidekick here is... I don't know what to think of her! Fi literally talks like she's some kinda robot and is seemingly devoid of any other character traits. I think it's nice that Link's sword now has Wikipedia in it, but I don't know if I like it as a character. It's especially off-putting after the way they handled Midna (which I thought was brilliant), so I'm hoping Fi gets some development later on, even if she is just a sword when it comes down to it.

Also, I thought in case nobody saw before, but that new Hyrule Historia book in Japan includes the actual, up-to-date, official Zelda timeline: (click here)

Everyone thought there were only two splits. THERE'S THREE.

So am I the only one who giggled whenever Fi had something to say and said out loud "A report, master" along with the text?

I liked Midna like any sane human being should, but would you really have preferred to just have Midna again rather than something original?

Wait, so all the Zelda games take place on an official timeline? I never knew that. So this means that Skyward Sword is a prequel to all of them? And based on that graph, the original Fami and Super games take place in an alternate, bad future universe?

I'd actually hoped nobody bothered to think that far into it - I was satisfied to assume these were all just separate universes with no connection to each other whatsoever. Now I feel kind of claustrophobic.

Anyway, what is this "Hyrule Historia" book? I'll see if I can find it somewhere.

She acts like your typical girl next door, and since she's been Link's best friend since they were little, it kind of makes you feel more committed to saving her.

Yeah, she is more fleshed out and involved in the story than usual, but at the same time, now she's just a typical "childhood friend" RPG sweetheart. This has been done a bazillion times already (and more successfully). Even though the icy, soulless princess character she usually embodies is less well-developed, I think it still made for a more unique character.


And yeah, Fi is a pain in the ass.

Green Gibbon! wrote:Wait, so all the Zelda games take place on an official timeline? I never knew that. So this means that Skyward Sword is a prequel to all of them? And based on that graph, the original Fami and Super games take place in an alternate, bad future universe?

I'd actually hoped nobody bothered to think that far into it - I was satisfied to assume these were all just separate universes with no connection to each other whatsoever. Now I feel kind of claustrophobic.

Anyway, what is this "Hyrule Historia" book? I'll see if I can find it somewhere.

I remember hearing that there has been an "official" timeline to the Zelda games sequestered away in Nintendo's offices for a long time now--it's always been a hotly debated topic among the fanbase.

"Hyrule Historia" is a 25th anniversary artbook published in Japan by Nintendo; it includes the aforementioned timeline (which, again, is kind of a big deal to Zelda fans), meanings behind the character's names, concept art, and more. Apparently, Eiji Aonuma himself had a major hand in its' contents.

It also really REALLY needs to be translated/localized for English-spesking countries.

The 3D titles fit really well into their timeline. Well, two timelines. But they're consistent... Wind Waker and Twilight Princess even reference the elements of the split, albeit subtly, which makes me believe they really did think about it. But placing the 2D titles always feels forced, though -- isn't the Zelda in Adventure of Link supposed to be the "first" Zelda? -- and I always kind of feel like they just shouldn't bother.

I'm enjoying Skyward Sword -- just finished the sixth dungeon -- but man, for a game that's so LONG anyway, there sure is a lot of totally unnecessary padding! Zelda games are just so good at wasting your time in small but frequent increments. Like when you're flying back and forth between Skyloft and the overworld entrances for the thousandth time, even though nothing EVER happens during those vacuous, scenery-free travel sequences. Or when you're sitting through the same six boxes of dialogue every single time you participate in a minigame.It's just kind of agonizing sometimes. I get twitchy.

What about having to sit through an explanation of each item whenever you first pick it up after turning the game on? Don't you just love that? Especially while you're hunting bugs!

Neo wrote:I liked Midna like any sane human being should, but would you really have preferred to just have Midna again rather than something original?

Not at all. I think we all know how well it works to bring back a character after an ending such as Twilight Princess's (even if things had turned out differently, I still think Midna should remain a unique, one-time character). I simply don't care much for Fi and would rather have someone less robotic. I do like her voice, though. MAI MADAS.

HELLO I HAVE CALCULATED AN 85% PROBABILITY THAT ZELDA IS BEHIND THIS DOOR DO YOU REMEMBER HOW TO DOWSE

So that gets a little annoying. My major problem, though, is that the game looks a bit ass on my rusty ol' CRT setup. It doesn't seem to display in 60hz very well, and in 50hz the framerate halves, which is a damn shame as I love the art style and the detail in the characters. I think component cables are in order.

That said, I'm having a whale of a time with this one! For the most part, the swordplay is genius, and adds a good layer of strategy to each fight (literally punched the air after taking down my first skulltula; what an achievement!) and you do seem to get punished for just slashing away like a madman, rather than timing your strikes carefully. The puzzles so far are complex enough without being frustrating, and the dungeon layouts are pretty well designed. It's really simple, but I liked the way you get into the first temple; reading that tablet and figuring out which bird it was talking about. I want more of that kind of stuff, it makes me feel like I'm solving a mystery! Also, my mum really liked the music, for what it's worth. Overall, it's just really nice to be playing a new Zelda game.

I must say, I'm not too keen on the disconnect between the surface and Skyloft. I know the Wii limitations and blah blah, but after sinking so many hours into Oblivion I want to be able to just... fly down there. And back up. All one world, you know?

Yes, Nintendo has claimed it exists for years, but I'm highly suspicious of this "official" timeline. So much of the stuff that ends up in official guides and books is just made up by random losers. I mean, have you guys ever read the Sonic 2 instruction manual? And who cares anyway? But Gibbon, how did you miss that there's at least some continuity? The monochrome bit of Wind Waker actually has you return to the OOT Hyrule.

I vaguely want to play Skyward Sword because I vaguely like every major new Zelda, but I can't get over the vomitous art direction, or the fact that it really looks like a game from 2002.

Also, back when LttP came out, didn't Nintendo explicitly say it took place about 100 years before the original?

Technically, it STILL does--I haven't seen any mention of exactly how many years pass between games, and LttP still takes place before Zelda 1 in that respective branch of the timeline...

I'm usually all for continuity, but I hate what passes for it in Zelda games. My sentiments pretty much echo GG!'s. It feels like the Final Fantasy approach would work better.

I like that there's some loose continuity, but I don't think it should be a major focus 'cuz then too much effort would be spent into weaving this epic tale of history and the games could become too story oriented. References to other games I think is fine as long as someone new to a major Zelda title doesn't feel like they're missing out on some major plot points that was established in previous games. I don't care much for Zelda history, and truthfully I don't even think anyone should care about it to the extent of having all these fans having long winded discussions about how each game fits into a timeline, but whatever I guess some people enjoy doing that.

Do I just suck or does the bug net have some really dodgy physics? No matter how many times I swoop over a bug, it seems like there's only a small random possibility that I'll actually catch it...

You just suck. You need to very slowly inch your way towards the offending insect until you're right besides it and the music quiets down and then nab it with a single swing. This is especially true for Sand Cicadas, which will run away if they hear so much as your eyelids batting.

It also doesn't hurt to head over to Gonzo's and upgrade it to a Big Bug Net which makes the job twice as easy. There's also some bugs which are easier to catch by rolling into a wall and picking them up from the floor, like the Woodland Rhino Beetle (?). Conversely, you can also use the bug net to pick up stuff that isn't an insect, like tumbleweed and small birds.

The only thing weird about the bug net physics is how the game allows it to phase through everything solid. You can, like, be facing a tree and notice a bug resting on the right-hand side, but swing your net from the left, through the tree, and catch it. Immersion!

Link's shield is like that. His hat goes right through it.

I didn't know I could catch the little birds. The ones in the forest? Do I use them as... ingredients?

Yes, the ones in the forest. There are a bunch of white, pink, orange, etc. ones and also rare blue ones. The way you end up using them is sadly far less graphic and upsetting than what you suggest, though.

There's also a type of enemy (a hazard?) that also happens to be a bug, so you can catch them, too.

Green Gibbon! wrote: Of course the main challenge for me is interpreting the dialogue. I can usually handle it until someone starts going on about the history and backstory, which involves a lot of difficult words and long sentences. Either way, it's like mixing homework with my game, which sucks, but しょうがない.

So often I'll be talking in English and find myself starting to say, 「しょうがない」, but remember that the person I'm talking to likely doesn't know the word. It has a better feel than "but what can you do" or other English equivalents. It'd be nice if I could use it like that, but しょうがない。

Skyward Sword is not a very good looking game. Graphics honestly did have some influence on my enjoyment of Twilight Princess - they were quite good at the time, even though early PS3 and 360 games were out. It has some nice big spaces with good drawn distance and more going on than the Great Sea of Wind Waker. The graphics are the main reason I'm not drawn to Skyward Sword.

gr4yJ4Y wrote:Skyward Sword is not a very good looking game. [...] The graphics are the main reason I'm not drawn to Skyward Sword.

I wish I could understand this sentiment, but it baffles me completely.

I'm a bit past the fourth dungeon. It's good, but there are rough pockets. The controls don't always work like they're supposed to and there's an occasional annoying challenge mixed in with the good stuff (those "silent realms" spring immediately to mind). And all that flying through empty space really gets to be a drag after a while. Twilight Princess was definitely the better game.

So I'm somewhere between the fifth and sixth dungeons and holy crap does this game have a lot of filler in the second half. Run around this area you've already explored to collect all these orbs in the time limit, go back into this old dungeon, fight this old boss, and oops, you can't progress here until you fly all the way back over to this other area and get this item from this NPC, and oh by the way, have a goddamn escort quest. Jesus, even Wind Waker's dull crap was mostly saved for side quests - now you have to do this stuff just to progress. Seriously, Nintendo, a short game is better than a copiously padded long one. Just let me go to the next goddamn dungeon already.

I'm honestly not sure I'll finish this, which would make it the first Zelda game in the main series that I don't even bother to clear.

Jesus that's depressing, I just started playing. I just beat the first dungeon, and when I figured out what the black cubes did I was kind of disappointed; they're just streamlined maps from WW! I really like the characterization thus far, though. I definitely prefer this kind of active, get-shit-done Zelda, even if it's partly off camera like in WW. I couldn't care less about series traditions, like Zelda being strictly a distant princess, so every one broken is, frankly, a plus for me. (This probably stems from me starting 3D Zeldas with WW.) Too bad that doesn't sound like it's going to keep up!

The motion control has been a little buggy for me, as well. Not that it's not performing as it should, but that performing as it should isn't quite up to snuff sometimes.

Yeah, that's another problem, there are niggling issues with the motion control throughout. Sometimes I have to reset the game two or three times before I can get it callibrated correctly.

Skyward Sword has so many parallels to Wind Waker (both good and bad), I'm suspecting it was made by the same team - the B team, I'm afraid.