London becomes burning hellhole

[Farmer]

If you haven't been keeping up with the news, London is currently in the grip of a massive riot. Copycat riots are starting in cities across Britain, with cars and buildings torched in Birmingham, Manchester, and Liverpool.

Some of the footage is pretty terrifying.

Is anybody directly affected by these riots? I've just heard now that the violence has spread to the center of my local city - Liverpool.

[Crowbar]

I actually live in Hackney. However, the violence has been occuring quite a bit south of me, so I haven't seen anything. However, there's still been a tense atmosphere whenever I've gone outside, and all the shops shut very early. Some of my friends have actually seen looters. I think the situation isn't as bad all over as the media suggests, but I am rather concerned to hear that it's spreading to other cities.

[Radrappy]

Why are people rioting? I read a couple articles pointing to an instance of police brutality inciting the masses but beyond that, nothing. Can anyone from the UK explain?

[Zeta]

Why are people rioting? I read a couple articles pointing to an instance of police brutality inciting the masses but beyond that, nothing. Can anyone from the UK explain?

Given my knowledge of the political climate of Europe and England, I'm willing to venture a guess that people wish to express their displeasure that Muslims live.

[P.P.A.]

My guess would be that it's primarily young people dissatisfied with their low social standing and lack of success in life* venting their built-up frustration by smashing stuff at the first opportunity.
Because clearly educating themselves via books or internet to improve their chances, or seeking an actual meaning in their lives beyond being envious of more successful people isn't worth bothering.

*which is entirely the fault of the government and/or filthy immigrants stealing their jobs/girls/tax money, of course.

[P.P.A.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcnm9Ie_Tz8

[Edgerock]

Why are people rioting? I read a couple articles pointing to an instance of police brutality inciting the masses but beyond that, nothing. Can anyone from the UK explain?

Given my knowledge of the political climate of Europe and England, I'm willing to venture a guess that people wish to express their displeasure that Muslims live.

Not exactly...

Police and local leaders in Tottenham made real progress in improving community relations in the intervening years and that's true about all of Britain. The best way to prevent crime, the theory goes, is to improve the lot of the people, then they won't need to commit crimes. But caught in a poverty and joblessness cycle, young people in many British urban areas have little hope of a better life.

So when a local 29-year-old father, described by police as a gangster, was shot dead by an officer, the response came quickly.

Mark Duggan was killed Thursday. On Saturday night about 50 relatives and friends protested outside the Tottenham police station.

Local young men, almost all with their heads covered by hoods -- known here as "hoodies" -- took advantage to indulge themselves in a favorite sport: cursing the police. This quickly escalated into a night of hurling rocks, bottles (Jack Daniels, one young man told me -- "we broke into the liquor store, drank the Jack Daniels and threw the bottles at the cops"), burning two patrol cars, torching buildings, smashing shop windows and carting off hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of phones, cameras and clothes.

The looting and rioting had nothing at all to do with the killing of Mark Duggan. That was the spark. The bonfire had been prepared by years of neglect, fueled by the anger of young men with no stake in the system, angry at everybody and quick to exploit fury at the killing of a local man, even if he did allegedly fire at the police officer first.

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... ondon-riot

[Crowbar]

It's interesting seeing the responses here. All the London/UK residents I've seen commenting on this have the attitude that it's just alot of useless chav layabouts who don't understand nor care about the world or the consequences of their actions on it seizing an oppurtunity to be stupid yobs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

Residents of other countries seem more inclined to believe it's due to years of dissatisfaction among of the less privileged at the state of the country.

I think neither side is completely right. Chances are at least some of the people who were involved in the initial violence had a genuine sense of disenfranchisement. Much of what's continued, however, is just copycat, oppurtunistic violence.

[P.P.A.]

I am mostly shocked by the British police's idleness in face of such chaos though. Its presence has been thin and its response slow and ineffective; how is it even possible that the situation could escalate like this in the first place? Here in Germany they would have been pushed back and rounded up or dispersed in a few hours—but I haven't even seen a single water cannon over there, and it's been going on for days already!

[Delphine]

Perhaps the cops agree with them.

[P.P.A.]

Agreeing with opportunistic looters?

[Crowbar]

Lol fucking no.

It's because the police have quite heavily diminished powers and the government response has been a bit delayed since apparently everybody was on holiday at the same time and it wasn't until the third night of violence that it became clear this was serious enough to justify them coming back.

[Delphine]

I was being facetious.

[Crowbar]

Doesn't come across well in text. :( Nor was the context terribly helpful.

[Crisis]

There's generally been a sense of surprise and confusion around here (south-west England), I think it's safe to say that the cause of the riots isn't very clear. It's worth noting that the police were criticised over their response to the student protests, which broke out into minor riots, last year. The student protests were over the raise to tuition fees - UK residents only had to pay £3290 a year towards tuition fees in this country, but that's going up to £9000 starting 2012 - which obviously hurts the lower income communities more than anyone else. It got turned into a pretty confused and incoherent protest against a conservative government. There are a lot of parallels, and the government is now committed to a long list of cuts and austerity measures, so we can probably expect more rioting in the future. The US might want to take note.

I think the police are handling the situation as well as could be expected. Given that the protest began with an incident of police brutality, they're keen not to come off as too heavy-handed, as all hell could have potentially broken loose. By going in softly, they've brought about a grass roots reaction against the riots. If things get more violent then they'll be in a favourable position to get support.

[Delphine]

Doesn't come across well in text. :( Nor was the context terribly helpful.

Cops siding with civilians in ANY context is facetious.

Also: Fire bomb attack on Nottingham police station

[P.P.A.]

Given that the protest began with an incident of police brutality, they're keen not to come off as too heavy-handed, as all hell could have potentially broken loose.

Hell has not broken loose already?

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europ ... ?hpt=hp_t2

[Ahmadinejad's] comments followed similar condemnation by the Libyan regime of Moammar Gadhafi, which called for UK Prime Minister David Cameron to step down. With barely-concealed relish, saying he had "lost all legitimacy" because of the riots shaking Britain.

"Cameron and his government must leave after the popular uprising against them and the violent repression of peaceful demonstrations by police," Gadhafi's Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaaim said, according to a report by the AFP news agency.

I am grinning from cheek to cheek.
(Although primarily because of the comments from Libya's government; the regime of the Iranian Republic in Iran is awful and I do not support it in any way.)

Also a friend informed me that the looters have torched a warehouse rented by a company distributing music for many small independent labels, which might have noticeable repercussions for the scene's future.
http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog= ... &tb=1&pb=1

[Frieza2000]

Also: Fire bomb attack on Nottingham police station

Robin Hood approves.

Seriously though, I'm worried about my friend in Southgate. He and his family live in a flat above their (empty) shop, and they're Muslim. If their home gets torched they'll be utterly destitute. I'm not even sure if they have insurance.

[Radrappy]

eriously though, I'm worried about my friend in Southgate. He and his family live in a flat above their (empty) shop, and they're Muslim. If their home gets torched they'll be utterly destitute. I'm not even sure if they have insurance.

Dude that's just how we get back at the man for oppressing us. By torching innocent people's small businesses. These aren't idealists, just criminals.

[P.P.A.]

[Radrappy]

I'll admit, I guffawed.

[Farmer]

"Cameron and his government must leave after the popular uprising against them and the violent repression of peaceful demonstrations by police," Gadhafi's Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaaim said, according to a report by the AFP news agency.

That's the best damned quote I've heard in months.

[Crowbar]

What violent repression and what peaceful demonstrations?

Unless I've missed something big, the main issue is that the police can't/aren't doing much about the violent riots.

Or am I missing some more irony here?

[Crisis]

Or am I missing some more irony here?

Afraid so. Gaddafi is the mental dictator, remember?

[(No Imagination)]

Well, the riots in UK are by-numbers comparable to Libyan uprising. Except the revolutionaries aren't being sponsored by Western forces, but rather by Murdoch's secret dark government buddies and it's not about diverting oil and drinking water, but rather about diverting attention.

... my local username has not failed me before, so this must be the dull truth.