The GHZ Forum

I'd cut Crisis City and put in Hydrocity. Then I think the line-up would be pretty OK! I mean, I'd say cut Spagonia too, but I get that the only reason we're getting 9 stages instead of 8 is because Spagonia is kind of an easy "freebie" to toss in.

I'd also probably have picked Lost World and Radical Highway for the SA1 and 2 representation, but I don't really mind the stages they did choose. (The two highway levels are practically interchangeable anyway, and it looks like they're making fun use of the City Escape truck.)

I guess I'd have preferred a higher balance of classic stages, but to be honest... what I probably REALLY would have preferred is a game with new stages that were as diverse and creative as the original stages were in their time. I've never been one of those people dying to see the entirety of Sonic 1 (or any other game) redone in modern graphics. I do think remaking select levels is kind of fun in this context, in an anniversary title that's drawing from a broad number of sources, but I certainly wouldn't want them to make a habit out of it. The thing I want them to bring back from the old titles is the gameplay, and if they nail (or reasonably approximate) that, I'm happy with the stages they chose.

I'd ditch Planet Wisp (I've never liked that stage), Seaside Hill, Spagonia, and then probably have a tough choice between Speed Highway and Crisis City. The thing is, three city-themed levels is a lot, and there are better stages from both games (I'd probably go Lost World and Kingdom Valley), but I dunno, Speed Highway is pretty iconic and I guess I just have a hard-on for the post-apocalypse.

But yeah, I see your point. I guess there is an obvious decline in the last 4-5 stages of the game.

It is going to be weird how the game is going to become gradually more boring and familiar as it goes on, eventually climaxing in a stage most of us played less than a year ago. I liked Planet Wisp, but I don't have nostalgia for it yet. I only just played it!

(Also I liked the food level better. SO THERE.)

Of all the stages in SA2 City Escape had the most colour. For the most part the game had a fairly drab art direction. The only other stand out level was Knuckles' Pumpkin Hill.

Twinkle Park would have been the most fun to take from Sonic Adventure. It had a bumper car track, roller coaster, merry-go-rounds, a fishing pond and a castle with a house of mirrors inside. What more could you want from one stage?

I suppose there is also an issue of how well each stage should represent its respective game. I'm not particularly keen on Seaside Hill for Heroes. However, it could be seen to represent the feel of that whole game better than many of the other levels, even if they would've been more interesting choices (Hang Castle, Egg Fleet). I get the impression this was a major part of the selection process, though I'm not sure I agree with it.

Did you guys know that Shadow is like, Iizuka's favorite character and that he takes credit for his creation?

Naka-san said he likes Eggman - saying we should not forget that it is his 20th birthday too (good point). Iizuka-san said he didn't make Sonic, but he did come up with Shadow the Hedgehog, so that's his favourite.

http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/sonic ... 4725980040

It explains everything. everything.

Esrever wrote:I guess I'd have preferred a higher balance of classic stages, but to be honest... what I probably REALLY would have preferred is a game with new stages that were as diverse and creative as the original stages were in their time. I've never been one of those people dying to see the entirety of Sonic 1 (or any other game) redone in modern graphics. I do think remaking select levels is kind of fun in this context, in an anniversary title that's drawing from a broad number of sources, but I certainly wouldn't want them to make a habit out of it. The thing I want them to bring back from the old titles is the gameplay, and if they nail (or reasonably approximate) that, I'm happy with the stages they chose.

That's what I've been saying from the beginning! When the final roster hit, I caught myself thinking "Well maybe they'll get it right in the sequel" and was immediately ashamed of myself when I really just want them to pick up where Colors left off with the art direction. Good on them for totally exceeding my expectations on how good a remake of a classic zone could be- though the 3DS version turned out to be exactly what I'd imagined and dreaded seeing from a remake over the years- but if we're expected to accept a 2/3 modern skew as a fair and shrewd compromise, it really just isn't worth it. Who could buy a game for three levels? Particularly when an otherwise complete experience would only last me about 7 hours, anyway? This whole game strikes me as a piss poor idea now. I've almost got higher prospects for S4E2.

Hot Shelter would've been my ideal pick for SA1. Aside from the obvious appeal in it being the one stage Sonic didn't get to visit, it had such a rich atmosphere with that rustic car wash look and the funky face-humping bassline, and then all of the game's most memorable setpieces that weren't the whale where clumped together there between the exotic aquarium, the TV rooms and the train ride. If they were smart, they could've just done a catch-all Egg Carrier Zone and incorporated both that and Sky Deck, which everyone seems to have a boner over for what can only be thoroughly misguided reasons.

seriously, skydeck was a nightmare.

And its BGM always causes me headaches (not that the hectic gameplay and the gravity swaps wouldn't already do a good enough job at that). While I generally dislike electric guitars, this track I particularly never understood how anyone can like—to me it really just sounds like someone got a guitar and shoved it into a car wash, recording the sounds it makes as the brushes rip apart its strings.

Radrappy wrote:Did you guys know that Shadow is like, Iizuka's favorite character and that he takes credit for his creation?

And suddenly it all makes sense.

I have some Idea what you guys (RR and Blount) are talking about, but do either of you care to elaborate on the specific things that Iizuka's done with Sonic that make sense in light of his being a Shadow fan?

Edit: I know you probably say it half jokingly. But I'm just curious to explore this idea further.

He allowed Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) to exist.

Radrappy wrote:Did you guys know that Shadow is like, Iizuka's favorite character and that he takes credit for his creation?

Naka-san said he likes Eggman - saying we should not forget that it is his 20th birthday too (good point). Iizuka-san said he didn't make Sonic, but he did come up with Shadow the Hedgehog, so that's his favourite.

http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/sonic ... 4725980040

It explains everything. everything.

gahahahahaahahaha

MiraiTails wrote:I have some Idea what you guys (RR and Blount) are talking about, but do either of you care to elaborate on the specific things that Iizuka's done with Sonic that make sense in light of his being a Shadow fan?

I think most people agree that Iizuka's decisions are very... divisive. Shadow is a prime example of that. Not much else to it.

Crazy Penguin wrote:Twinkle Park would have been the most fun to take from Sonic Adventure. It had a bumper car track, roller coaster, merry-go-rounds, a fishing pond and a castle with a house of mirrors inside. What more could you want from one stage?

That is exactly what I thought. Besides, this game could use a carnival level.

Honestly, I didn't mind Shadow until they decided to, y'know, bring him back from the dead. I didn't mind the basic story that was given to us about him in Sonic Adventure 2. If Shadow the Hedgehog were a prequel, say a sandbox game aboard the ARK, that could have helped matters a little.

The Doc wrote:Honestly, I didn't mind Shadow until they decided to, y'know, bring him back from the dead. I didn't mind the basic story that was given to us about him in Sonic Adventure 2. If Shadow the Hedgehog were a prequel, say a sandbox game aboard the ARK, that could have helped matters a little.

Same here, though even bringing him back from the dead didn't make me angry. It's the fact that after doing so they could not decide whether he was a clone, a robot, or a damned alien of all things. They just mixed the three at the end of it all right? Clones would have been a perfectly fine plot device. Way to screw up an easy excuse.

I honestly found the concept that Shadow was some sort of failed attempt to create Super Sonic based on the S3K Hidden Palace mural, with the Biolizard being a failed artificial Chaos, very cool. Can't say the story was told in the best way, but I liked some of the stuff they were going for in SA2.

Dash wrote:I honestly found the concept that Shadow was some sort of failed attempt to create Super Sonic based on the S3K Hidden Palace mural, with the Biolizard being a failed artificial Chaos, very cool.

wait, is this canon?

And I always thought the game insinuated that Sonic himself was also a creation of Gerald. I think, at least, we can agree that SA2 was a game that vaguely insinuated all kinds of ridiculous crap. That was one of it's strengths! (?)

I'm pretty sure that it was meant to be intentionally ambiguous for the sole intent of making people debate on the internet. I mean, it's not like they've given us an explanation since then, right?

Dash wrote:I honestly found the concept that Shadow was some sort of failed attempt to create Super Sonic based on the S3K Hidden Palace mural, with the Biolizard being a failed artificial Chaos, very cool.

It's not canon, but I did always prefer this interpretation.

just sounds like a typically sloppy anime storyline to me.

Dash wrote:the Biolizard being a failed artificial Chaos

Hadn't heard that one before. Especially since its color scheme and reptilian basis seem to be more Black Arms-y. But I suppose it's possible, or even a combination of the two.

I assumed the whole Black Arms thing wasn't thought up until they were actually making the Shadow game. I guess that might not be true, but man, if so, they sure didn't foreshadow any of it much.

No, I agree that, if they intended to have a link between the Black Arms and the Biolizard (which is unlikely, even compared to the mural thing), it was decided in ShTH, not SA2. They may have chosen to base the Black Arms around the Biolizard, though it might just be the shared color scheme.

Agree on the Shadow saga not being telegraphed well. I think, aside from being a sucky game in general, the main disappointment I had with Shadow was that it felt like it created its own questions to answer instead of answering those from SA2. The main one (how did Shadow survive?) was an easter egg, and any secondary ones (e.g, does Sonic have anything to do with anything, which was a legitimate question raised by SA2) were ignored. Heck, the Biolizard, which could easily been elaborated on, appeared in naught but a still-frame flashback, which even further stretches my proposed link.

BTW, the 3DS browser sucks for posting.

I thought BioLizard was a giant space flea from nowhere myself. Didn't have really any foreshadowing (heh) enough at all to make it a credible threat late-game.

One of the main reasons I gave ShtH a shot (and even got the true ending) was to find answers to all the questions from SA2. And they didn't really answer any.

The level choices for Generations gives me the same feeling I got when I saw the course selection for Sega All-Star Racing (all from Heroes for Sonic). It's disappointing, but it's just Sega being Sega.