The Lesser of Two Evils (PS2 Recommendations)

[MiraiTails]

I noticed that there are several Sega PS2 games with sequels/revisions.
For each pair of games below, which do you think is "better"?

1. Shinobi or Nightshade (Kunoichi) -Nightshade is a little easier?
2. Gungrave or Gungrave Overdose -HG101 says Overdose has better gameplay?
3. Headhunter or Headhunter Redemption - I already have Headhunter just for the sake of DC nostalgia.
4. VF4 or VF4 Evolution - I presume Evolution is better?

Any additional insight you can offer would be helpful.

If anyone wants to throw in other "best of" recommendations for PS2 (ex. Katamari, Ratchet and Clank, Sly), I suppose this is the thread for it.

[G.Silver]

Who is the other evil in this relationship?

I definitely preferred Shinobi. I think it was more compelling, less sloppy, and maybe even better looking, it just felt like a more solid product. Around the time Kunoichi came out I was totally sick of load time in PS2 games as well, and if memory serves, there's a lot more loading. Kuno is definitely easier (though I never actually beat it), but that may be because there's no death sword eating at your health meter, and I think that time pressure kept Shinobi tight and focused and good.

The first Sly Cooper is really excellent and I'd recommend it over any of the games on your list (unless you have intense VS planned up for your VF4). Gradius V is one of the best 2D shooters I've ever played. Umm, Maximo is pretty good? Metal Gear Solid 2 is my favorite Metal Gear, but if you are only just now getting around to a PS2 then you probably don't like Metal Gear?

You didn't ask about it, but ZOE Anubis is way better than the original ZOE.

I think Neo Contra is really something. It's not a great game, but it's so completely over the top that it's one of those games that I keep around just to show to people (it's not Dynamite Cop, but then what is?). Similarly, Robot Alchemic Drive ("RAD") is probably too slow and repetitive to get on many peoples' favorite lists but it was one of my favorites on PS2.

[Kogen]

Wow, what a (mostly) bad list of things. I have Shinobi and as a huge faggot of the franchise I cannot recommend it (although the build materials of the case, manual, and disc are fantastic). For Virtua Fighter, get Evolution, as it has more content and it is the same game (plus you get that special bonus game in certain places).

And I do not know how Neo Contra got into this discussion, but do not do it. Just do not do it.

Do not do it.

[Opa-Opa]

In the matter of PS2 Sega games I only say one thing: Project Altered Beast.

Oh yeah.

[G.Silver]

And I do not know how Neo Contra got into this discussion, but do not do it. Just do not do it.

If you don't like Neo Contra, you can't be my friend. :(

[Blount]

As always, it helps knowing what kind of games you prefer. I'm going to give a rundown of what my favorite PS2 games are, regardless of genre:

Sly 3 is a must if you like platformers. It's a rare instance where having a lot of playable characters helps improving the experience. Yeah, Penelope and her RC gadgets can go jump in a river, but her missions are rare and they're not any worse than some of the missions in Sly 2. The variety and relative simplicity in jumping between different genres are what I'd consider the game's strongest points.

Gitaroo Man is an underrated rhythm game like no other. Before everyone decided that the DJ Band Hero games were genre-defining, Gitaroo Man came along and brought simple yet addictive gameplay, as well as really good music. It has a very distinct Japanese style and the story is a big (but likable) ball of "you can do anything if you try". And get this: you can play the game WITHOUT a superfluous guitar-shaped controller. Yeah, I don't like Guitar Hero.

Jak II has almost no original elements of its own, but their execution is almost always brilliant. If you were ever interested in this series, this is the game you'll want to get (unless you prefer cheery 3D platformers as opposed to the mission-oriented action game that Jak II is, in which case I'd recommend the far more generic Jak & Daxter). The game has an interesting story and characters that are difficult not to like.

Also, most of the Ratchet & Clank games are pretty good, especially the third one. Do not get Deadlocked.

OutRun 2006 Coast 2 Coast, despite its stupid name, is your only means of playing OutRun on the PS2, and luckily for you, it's also one of the best. While using a controller instead of a steering wheel at an arcade is much less compelling, Sumo Digital really nailed the controls and the analog stick precision. The game would be good enough as a re-release of the original arcade game or its SP counterpart, but it's actually both and then some, with many added missions, cars and sound tracks to complete the package. The graphics are really good for a PS2 game as well.

Ōkami​, of course, is a lot like a PS2 Zelda, but it's much more than a mere clone. The lovable visual style, the characters and the gameplay all boil down to a unique experience that everyone should try at some point. The game is way too easy but it has good longevity to compensate.

[Dr. BUGMAN]

Longevity means nothing if the game does nothing for you, which for me it didn't (could be because it was the shoddy Wii port). That said, I'm still keeping an eye out for Okamiden.

My experience with the PS2 is fairly limited. Of the games I enjoyed the most was the original Jak & Daxter. I skipped Jak II, III & that racing game because I was tired of the worn-out 'dark & edgier' route the series apparently took. Also, I don't much care for GTA-style games.

I remember liking Fur Fighters, especially the broken multi-player mode.

You may also want to check out Mr. Mosquito. (Incidental fun fact: only female mosquitoes suck blood.)

[Kogen]

Longevity means nothing if the game does nothing for you, which for me it didn't (could be because it was the shoddy Wii port). That said, I'm still keeping an eye out for Okamiden.

This is a perfect review of Okami.

[MiraiTails]

Who is the other evil in this relationship?...

As Kogen said, many of the games I listed just aren't good. So one game in a given pair is the lesser of two evils. (ex. Shinobi or Nightshade).

...but if you are only just now getting around to a PS2 then you probably don't like Metal Gear?...

You're right about my not liking Metal Gear, but I didn't just get a PS2. I'm just filling in my collection. I think now is a great time to buy PS2 games - while they're still cheap and easy to find. And the PS2's long life span and popularity mean there's a ridiculous breadth and depth of games. For example, I've got Half Life, Ico, Capcom Classics Collection, and more than two dozen others.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone! Keep them coming, if you want.

[Shadow Hog]

...you could've just gotten the PC version of Half-Life, y'know.

[Senbei]

Maybe he wants it for the co-op mode?

I'm obligated to recommend MGS3, since it and Okami are my favorite PS2 games. Oh, and Resident Evil 4. And ICO and SotC, obviously. Otherwise, in keeping with the SEGA theme, Space Channel 5: Special Edition is pretty great.

[Isuka]

God Hand should really get God Hand, since God Hand has great God Hand and God Hand, and its God Hand is pretty sweet, plus it also features some of the most balanced God Hand and hardcore God Hand you'll ever see in a God Hand, like, EVAR.

So, in one God Hand, go get it.

And the only thing missing from VF4 Evolution that I know of is a much cooler intro sequence.

[FlashTHD]

Beyond Good & Evil if you don't happen to have it for the other two systems or PC, but you may want it for those instead - the game is glitchy enough as it is (make backup saves often, especially before going to the last area) and I suspect the PS2 version might be the worst about that. It's the most common version, though. Disappointingly short but game rox, not much more needs to be said. Oh uh, possibly the best english voice acting ever.

It sucks that Mega Man X8 still has not been released on anything other than PS2 and PC, it's great fun. If using a shop to make almost all the upgrades doesn't bother you, it's easily as good as X4. If you haven't played X7, feel free to skip it as you won't be missing anything much (if you must know, just look for spoilers, that game is prolly not worth the trouble). It too happens to have suprisingly competent voice work.

There was a PS2 port of Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future. I hear it's not that common, but you read that from someone who found a complete copy in a Gamestop bargain bin for $10. Speaking as a non-fan of the Genesis games, this game is epic and gorgeous and I love it. This version has probably got much better controls than on DC (the "Modifier Button" BS has been shifted to the right stick), it added a Gallery for unlocking concept art, and it's slightly more forgiving than the original...the only downgrades at all I can think of are the credits being removed from the ending (moved to the gallery, nowhere near as cool) and the completely different sonar map system being less, uh, immersive. (it's a game-pausing detailed map instead of a vauge outline, but it helps with the frustration level so it works out)

About the Jak games... Jak 1 is pretty, but (characters notwithstanding) so painfully generic and unsatisfying. Everything you do is a means to one end: finishing the story. There is ultimately nothing else to do beyond that; once you obtain the extended ending (which isn't difficult), that's it. I bombed through the entire thing in a little less than a week's worth of work and felt cheated afterward. If that kind of game structure sounds familiar, well, the other problem is the game isn't entertaining enough with what it's got to be worth being minimalist. In short, you've got to pretty much fall in love with the thing or it's not a keeper. Say what you will about the GTA-ification of the series after that game but at least Jak II felt like it had some sense of replay value so the whole thing didn't come off as pointless/forgettable. I have yet to play Jak 3, BTW.

[Blount]

Don't play Jak 3. It's nothing but vehicle missions and unexpected genre changes. The game is much easier than Jak II and the story gets extremely stupid sometimes. Not to mention that Haven City is now much more boring and you can pretty much do anything you want without any consequences. I loved how you were constantly under the watchful eye of the Krimzon Guard in the second game, so if you did something illegal, they would try to take you down. Resisting too much would create havoc on the streets, and before you knew it, you'd be fleeing from dozens of guards, Hellcat Cruisers, motherfucking TURRETS THAT WOULD COME OUT OF THE GROUND and anything they could toss at you, all while you nuked the city and transformed into a monster that would terrorize the guards. In Jak 3 you can hit a guard straight up in his face and get away with it. What the hell happened?

[Opa-Opa]

I never played any Jak/Daxter/Ratchet/Clank games and I have no idea of what they're about. They're not very well known or sold around here I guess.

Anyway, I thought we were only talking about Sega PS2 games... If it ain't like that, then, apart from everything everyone said here that is great already (Shadow of the Colossus, ICO, Okami, MGS3, etc...), you should get The Warriors. It's simply one of the best movie games ever made, if not THE best. And fun as hell.

Also Viewtiful Joe, the Katamari games, REZ (if you don't have it on Dreamcast or XBLA), and I couldn't agree more on Outrun 2006 being awesome. I have the PC version though.

If you like the Evil Dead movies then try Evil Dead Regeneration. It follows the spirit of second movie and I guess it's the only game in the series that nailed good comedy with fun gameplay. Plus few things beat Bruce Campbell's voice acting and a chainsaw instead of a hand.

[UCHU]

I have some suggestions:

-Sly Cooper 1 and 2 are awesome. 3 is alright but waaay to damn easy and short. It also had the replay value of a brick.
-Ace Combat.
-The PS2 version of Taito Legends 2 has G-Darius, which must be played solely for it's awesomely insane soundtrack if you haven't played it already.
-Castle Shikigami 2 has a very low price AFAIK. Not only does it have an infamously horrible english localization, it's also a pretty damn good manic shmup.
-Contra: Shattered Soldier is the only good PS2 Contra. Neo Contra was gay.
-Red Faction, although generic, is pretty fun. It also features some surprisingly decent terrain deformation, especially for 2001. Makes multiplayer a blast if you're creative.

In Jak 3 you can hit a guard straight up in his face and get away with it. What the hell happened?

They're on your side in Jak 3.

...and fuck you guys for bringing up Jak II. I had that game completely erased from my memory.

[Green Gibbon!]

Sly 1 was awesome, but I got bored stupid with the second one. I got about halfway through I think before tossing it aside. I never played the third one, but it looked like more of the same. How was it compared to the second?

I've always loved the Ape Escape games and the third one is my favorite.

Bumpy Trot, Dragon Quest VIII, Everblue 2... I'm sure I have more to recommend, but my massive PS2 collection is on the other side of the Pacific ocean at the moment.

[Blount]

Sly 1 was awesome, but I got bored stupid with the second one. I got about halfway through I think before tossing it aside. I never played the third one, but it looked like more of the same. How was it compared to the second?

I hated Sly 2. Confusing overworlds and boring/frustrating missions all around. I pretty much forced myself through the game and never picked it up again. Sly 3 was great, though. It follows the same basic structure of the second game, but the missions are much more varied and fun. The only mission I truly hated was the one where you have to drive an RC car through a maze of fine chinaware, which, as you've probably already guessed, you're not allowed to break. The first boss is also way too hard for such an early portion of the game, but I think these are my only two major complaints. Try it out if you have the chance.

I've always loved the Ape Escape games and the third one is my favorite.

I haven't gotten the third one yet for the same reasons you haven't gotten Sly 3. I loved the original Ape Escape, but the sequel annoyed the hell out of me. The music got on my nerves, many of the later levels were too long and annoying (that freakin' moon base almost made me cry), and the new gadgets were just flat-out horrible: there was the Bananarang, which made it too easy to catch monkeys; the Water Cannon was lame and useless unless the game required you to use it; then there was the Electromagnet, the thing that forced you to cling to metal surfaces for minutes while you waited for the platforms to move.

If you agree with me on this, then I'll know I can get the third game and not be disappointed.

[Green Gibbon!]

It's been years since I played Ape 2, so I don't really remember those things. I do remember that I liked it, but not as much as the first one. The thing I think that bothered me about it was that the later levels were too big and bland. I remember a lot of space to run and chase monkeys at the expense of proper platforming.

Whatever the case, I can definitely say that the third one is my favorite of the three. I also think it's high time for a fourth one.

[MiraiTails]

I recently picked up DMC 3: Special Edition, thinking it might be the "best" iteration of the series. Does anyone have an opinion? I didn't think anyone would call 4 the best, and I recall 2 being disliked for some reason...

[cjmcray]

Despite feeling like the horrible furry fanfiction of a 16-year old DeviantArt user, I have to agree that Sly Cooper is a must-buy. It's like a cel-shaded mixture of Splinter Cell and Crash Bandicoot.

Also, Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 (Though I found the sequel's storyline to be very irritating with the constant yammering of nonsense like Nobodies and Organization XIII. It's also embarrassing to hear the characters yell out retarded names like Xemnas, Namine, Ansem, and Xaldin. Even moreso when it's Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck doing so. I kept wanting Mickey or Donald to just jump up and ask what the fuck everyone is talking about.)

Metal Gear Solid 3 was pretty good, but I thought it was a bit overrated.

If you don't have it on the other systems, I also suggest picking up The Simpsons Game or SEGA Superstars Tennis.

[j-man]

I bought DMC3 a little while back to "catch up" on the stuff my mates said I was missing. Got stuck on Cerberus for ages, and when I finally beat him I got lost in a massive brown castle with a million rooms that look the same, then killed by a flying electric eel or something. What a triple-A title. The music gets on my tits as well. What annoys me is that Dante always boasts shit in the cutscenes, and then you get your arse kicked by Death on the first level because you chose a stance that doesn't have a dodge move.

There's so many PS2 titles I picked up to try and see what all the fuss was about. San Andreas was okay, but the flying missions were bullshit. I've always wanted to be a black man, so it was a dream come true. I put a hell of a lot of hours into RE4; it's probably the most fun I've had on a console title bar Mario Galaxy. FFXIII is okay if you like playing an offline MMO that takes place almost entirely in the same desert. I'll ditto Gibbon! and say DQVIII, and Bumpy Trot too if you can get your head around the mental control scheme. I have a fondness for the first ZOE, Rez is brilliant and hey, if your Megadrive breaks there's always SMC+.

[Crowbar]

I recently picked up DMC 3: Special Edition, thinking it might be the "best" iteration of the series. Does anyone have an opinion? I didn't think anyone would call 4 the best, and I recall 2 being disliked for some reason...

Well, what do you think of it? I don't have the special edition, but I do love DMC3. I kind of find it hard to say whether I prefer it over the first, though. It added alot, like the styles and weapons, and they're genuine additions rather than just tacked on extras, and also the cutscenes, voice-acting, and story are much, much improved, but the first felt more involving somehow. I think the recurring boss characters and superior enemy design are a part of that. The bosses in DMC3 get two cutscenes and then that's it, but in DMC1 they keep coming back with an even bigger grudge and you develop a rapport with them. Even the Nightmare, without any dialogue or even a face, feels like a real rival. Whereas the DMC3 bosses, despite having much better written dialogue ("YOU PUNY PATHETIC THING!") feel like throwaway extras.

And I don't think anything will ever compare to the sheer, mad TERROR of having to fight Shadows.

Also, j-man, I think maybe you're just not manly enough for the game. Did you play the first? I remember getting stuck on the first boss there (the Phantom) for ages, too, because it actually requires you to think about what you're doing, work out the enemy's attacks, and figure out a strategy, rather than just mash away madly with the sword. I managed to man up in the end and deal with it, but the number of times I've seen the game in the 2nd-hand bin because of people who obviously gave up at that point truly saddens me.

Also you can roll with any style.

Also the music is hilarious.

[j-man]

Yeah, I played the first one a while back. Breezed through it until that firey spider boss, then got annoyed at the sudden difficulty change. I found the same thing with DMC3; I blast through the stages, but when a boss turns up I get utterly destroyed. I evidently have little patience for games like that.

And I don't wanna have to lock on to dodge, dammit! You fight like six guys at once!

[Delphine]

DMC3 is easy.