Ringed Gas Giant

[Crazy Penguin]

So, my Saturn has been much neglected as of late and I'm looking to rectify that. First of all I'd like to finally delve into the console's Japanese catalogue and play games in 60hz. I'm in the UK and own an EU Saturn (a round button model) and have a 4M Action Replay on its way to me. I've seen guides for fitting in 50/60z swithces, but I really don't have the experience/patience/whatever to be doing anything like that myself, is there anywhere I can just buy a Saturn with switches already in place? Any modding forums perhaps where buying/selling is permitted?

As for the games, I currently have (all EU versions):

Actua Golf
Athlete Kings
Baku Baku
Bubble Bobble also featuring Rainbow Islands
Burning Rangers
Bust-A-Move 2
Christmas NiGHTS
Croc
Daytona USA
Fighters Megamix
Manx TT Superbike
Marvel Super Heroes
NiGHTS into Dreams...
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon II Zwei
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Saturn Bomberman
Sega Rally
Sonic Jam
Sonic R
Steep Slope Sliders
Street Figher Collection
Virtua Cop 2
Virtua Figher 2
Worms

What else is worth adding to my collection? I'm thinking more like obscure classics, hidden gems and what-not, or stuff I can just get cheap. The obvious "big name" games I'm already thinking of getting include; Astal, Guardian Heroes, Silhouette Mirage, Radiant Silvergun, X-Men vs Street Fighter, Virtua Cop, Sonic 3D, X-Men vs Street Figher, Winter Heat.

Any good platformers? I've heard good things about Keio Yuugekitai Katsugekihen but it looks fairly pedestrian. Bubble Symphony is excellent, and I could just play the Xbox Taito Legends 2 version, but I'm very fond of the idea of having it on Saturn. How about the Rockman games, would there be any advantage in getting the Saturn versions of those? Dracula X?

And puzzle games. I love a good puzzler, and recall Gibbon proclaiming Puyo Puyo Tsu as the pinnacle of the series.

Is Saturn Bomberman Fight any good? How about Bomberman Wars, is that something that can be played without knowing Japanese?

How about RPGs for someone who doesn't play many RPGs?

And one last thing, is there any difference between Dynamite Deka and Die Hard Arcade besides the title and language? Does the Japanese version have Deep Scan?

[Dr. BUGMAN]

I hear tell that the Saturn version of Mega Man 8 has some exclusive bonus levels.

[FlashTHD]

I hear tell that the Saturn version of Mega Man 8 has some exclusive bonus levels.

Nnnnot quite. Cut Man and Wood Man are hidden bosses, there's a Bonus menu with official and fan art, different instrumentation in the music, and better/extra graphics effects sans a dip in the FMV cutscene quality. This was also supposed to be the only version of the game until Sony grovelled to them for a port despite treating Capcom like crap before about 2D releases.

[Shadow Hog]

I personally find the Clockwork Knight games to be underrated. The first one is a bit bland, but the second one is quite excellent. Not perfect, but still really cool. Both have PAL versions, too, so there's no real need to import it; still there was a combo-pack of the two games released in Japan if you want to go that route. I doubt you'll miss much if anything if there's Japanese text.

[Crazy Penguin]

I'd wondered about Clockwork Knight. The original is dirt cheap and the sequel isn't that much rarer or costlier so I'll have to check them out. Am I to understand that the Bug games suck?

[FlashTHD]

While we have this thread I got a few stupid questions about emulating it, before I waste any more discs experimenting:

- When using CD-Rs, what's the fastest recommended speed for burning Saturn games and will burning too slow affect the audio access/load times? (I know why burning too fast is a bad idea)

- Figuring out how a CUE sheet is supposed to read when assigned to a BIN rip has been tons of fun. I got a dump of 3D Blast (US version) off of SonAR and its' CUE reads like:

Code: Select all

FILE "125 SONIC 3D BLAST (U).BIN" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
PREGAP 00:02:00
INDEX 01 06:17:21
TRACK 03 AUDIO
INDEX 01 07:10:24
TRACK 04 AUDIO
INDEX 01 07:21:30
TRACK 05 AUDIO
INDEX 01 09:52:22
TRACK 06 AUDIO
INDEX 01 13:03:13
TRACK 07 AUDIO
INDEX 01 16:21:55
TRACK 08 AUDIO
INDEX 01 19:47:42
TRACK 09 AUDIO
INDEX 01 22:58:06
TRACK 10 AUDIO
INDEX 01 25:45:42
TRACK 11 AUDIO
INDEX 01 29:18:05
TRACK 12 AUDIO
INDEX 01 31:52:44
TRACK 13 AUDIO
INDEX 01 35:03:12
TRACK 14 AUDIO
INDEX 01 37:57:03
TRACK 15 AUDIO
INDEX 01 41:04:34
TRACK 16 AUDIO
INDEX 01 44:00:39
TRACK 17 AUDIO
INDEX 01 46:49:56
TRACK 18 AUDIO
INDEX 01 49:43:31
TRACK 19 AUDIO
INDEX 01 52:32:54
TRACK 20 AUDIO
INDEX 01 55:01:21
TRACK 21 AUDIO
INDEX 01 57:53:46
TRACK 22 AUDIO
INDEX 01 58:21:17
TRACK 23 AUDIO
INDEX 01 58:48:14
TRACK 24 AUDIO
INDEX 01 58:55:71
TRACK 25 AUDIO
INDEX 01 59:16:11

and i'm not sure if it's correct or not, since the delay i'm getting in audio access times could be caused by other things. Then I was told I can get a CUE for this from ReDump, and theirs is like so:

Code: Select all

FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 01).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 02).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 03).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 04).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 05).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 06).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 07).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 08).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 09).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 10).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 11).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 11 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 12).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 12 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 13).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 13 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 14).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 14 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 15).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 15 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 16).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 16 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 17).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 17 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 18).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 18 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 19).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 19 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 20).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 20 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 21).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 21 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 22).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 22 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 23).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 23 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 24).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 24 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
FILE "Sonic 3D Blast (USA) (Track 25).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 25 AUDIO
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00

Completely different looking, which only confuses the hell out of me. I just want something that's accurate and works, man. What's supposed to be the difference?

- When mounting an image to a virtual drive, are the access/load times more or less the same to playing it on the original hardware?

- Finally, is there supposed to be such a thing as an ISO+CUE copy of a Sega CD/Saturn game without seperate audio files?

I'm using SSF by the way.

[P.P.A.]

WHERE IS DARIUS GAIDEN
Closeyoureyes...Closeyour...head?

[G.Silver]

Keio Yuugekitai is pretty standard in that it has all your usual platformer qualities, but it's also really good and pretty funny. At the very least it's a much better game than Astal is (which you should also definitely play).

If you like robots, Assault Suits Leynos 2 (a platformer) is good, and I also like GunGriffon 2 and Bulk Slash (if you can find it).

You should also play Mr. Bones. It's terrible, but everyone should play it.

[Shadow Hog]

Am I to understand that the Bug games suck?

I only own the first one. They're not BAD, per se, but they're definitely flawed; like, the base run-and-jump is fine, but the levels are insanely long and the checkpoints insanely sparse. Also my copy can't load some of the final levels (must be slightly scratched...).

Also, the ports of Duke Nukem 3D and Quake, plus the original FPS Powerslave (called Exhumed where you are), are all very good. Same company made all of 'em. They kind of disbanded shortly thereafter, though...

[big_smile]

http://www.consolepassion.co.uk/ & http://www.retroscene.co.uk/ frequently have modded Saturns. I have never purchased from them, so I do not know how good they are.

^_^

[Isuka]

I think Gunbird is really fun unless you have already beaten the second one on Dreamcast, which more or less surpasses it on all levels, including its difficulty (hell, particularly its difficulty).

And it has an original mode and stuff, although reversing the scrolling direction is almost universally considered to be lame.

[Crisis]

And puzzle games. I love a good puzzler, and recall Gibbon proclaiming Puyo Puyo Tsu as the pinnacle of the series.

The Saturn-exclusive Puyo Puyo was Puyo Puyo SUN which was I gather had the best sense of humour in the series although it's hard to tell being entirely in Japanese. Oh and it introduced the Sun Puyo. I've never actually played it but given that even the most diehard Puyo fans seem to have forgotten about its signature gameplay addition suggests it's probably not that great. It has the least tolerable voice acting of the series, but it does feature Satan as a playable character who attacks by throwing crucifixes at you. Which compensates, I guess.

You could probably find Tsu for the Saturn though, although that's true for every other console under the sun.

[FlashTHD]

Or get the fan translated PC version. (and the one for Puyo Puyo 15th on DS in the same trip)

[P.P.A.]

And puzzle games. I love a good puzzler, and recall Gibbon proclaiming Puyo Puyo Tsu as the pinnacle of the series.

The Saturn-exclusive Puyo Puyo was Puyo Puyo SUN which was I gather had the best sense of humour in the series although it's hard to tell being entirely in Japanese. Oh and it introduced the Sun Puyo. I've never actually played it but given that even the most diehard Puyo fans seem to have forgotten about its signature gameplay addition suggests it's probably not that great. It has the least tolerable voice acting of the series, but it does feature Satan as a playable character who attacks by throwing crucifixes at you. Which compensates, I guess.

You could probably find Tsu for the Saturn though, although that's true for every other console under the sun.

I actually have SUN, it's pretty fun. The only thing in the cutscenes I understood was Incubus shouting "OW SHIT" though.

[Frieza2000]

stupid questions about emulating

It's been quite a few years since I pirated Saturn games, but I used Sega Cue Maker and I think that's what ended up working for me. I remember running into ISOs that didn't have audio tracks...but I don't remember if they ended up actually working. I'm leaning toward yes. For burning, I was recommended to use Golden Hawk, and that definitely worked well. I've never heard of problems related to writing speed, but I must've used 8x. A quick Google search says not to use anything higher than that.

I never got the actual emulator to work. I had to get a real Saturn and use the disk swap trick. I could never get it to work with Sonic Jam, but I got Sonic 3D blast to work once or twice and Sonic R worked pretty consistently. I beat NiGHTS, only to discover that I'd been missing out on several music tracks and cinema scenes, so I ended up buying that too. Come to think of it, the whole endeavor was a real mess. It's the hardest time I ever had pirating anything. There were some games I seemed to have no trouble with, but some that gave me no end of trouble. It really might be worth going legit to save yourself the time, headaches, and wasted CD-Rs.

[FlashTHD]

I used Sega Cue Maker and I think that's what ended up working for me.

Yeah, it does for ISO files, it won't budge for BINs (I think) if there isn't something else about the program i'm missing.

Even if I end up buying the actual discs, I wanted to see most of those questions cleared up cause my run of luck in finding answers through Google is extremely shit.

[FlashTHD]

While we're at it, is 8x speed a wise idea for Sega CD games that aren't intended to be run on anything but an emulator? (for the real hardware, I know it's 1x or nothing)

[Zeupar]

I would recommend you two average games that I loved back when I was a child: The Lost World: Jurassic Park and Spot Goes to Hollywood.

[Green Gibbon!]

Willy Wombat. It's repetitive and occasionally disorientating, but I remember it like a good fever dream. I love the characters and atmosphere. I'll also second the recommendation of Clockwork Knight and its sequel. The sequel is actually one of the best platformers on the system. (The first one not so much, but still worth a shot.) I remember Bug 1 as being novel at the time (not anything approaching good). If you're going to mess with Astal, may as well give Bug a go too.

As for RPG's, Grandia's the best on the system and one of the best ever for my money, but if you're not already an RPG fan, I doubt it'll convert you. I also liked Shining the Holy Ark and Riglord Saga, though neither one is especially good. (There was a sequel to Riglord Saga, but I never played it.) Shining Force III is definitely worth a look regardless of where your fancy lies.

There's also Princess Crown, and has anyone played Dark Savior or Dragon Force? People used to swear by Dragon Force.

[Green Gibbon!]

Also, Last Bronx.

[Ritz]

Willy Wombat. It's repetitive and occasionally disorientating, but I remember it like a good fever dream. I love the characters and atmosphere.

Following this line of reasoning, Super Tempo is definitely worth a shot. Not much going for it in the way of substance, but Tempo is easily the most charming of Sega's IPs next to Clockwork Knight, which you should definitely play. Also, Twinkle Star Sprites.

And Silhouette Mirage is probably my top favorite game of all time, but I'd personally recommend the PS version over the Saturn original. It's missing a few of the graphical flourishes, but the English translation and additional bosses are totally worth it, and having weapons deplete Spirit energy just makes so much more sense. The game is a total breeze otherwise, and this is the sort of thing that needs to be savored.

[Shadow Hog]

Shining the Holy Ark

Ah, right, totally forgot to mention that. I have that one too (got it and Guardian Heroes together for $60; GH without a manual, StHA without a box... not a bad deal all-around). It's pretty charming, but very, very dungeon-crawly. Still, if you're in the mood for a good, first-person dungeon crawler that generally takes a few hours at a time to play, can't really go wrong here.

[G.Silver]

I have Dark Savior and Dragon Force, they're cool. Dark Savior is definitely worth checking out. Has anyone played Steal Princess on DS? How does it compare?

[Crazy Penguin]

I recently picked up Virtual On with the twin-sticks for a decent price. It was mostly about the novelty of the whole thing, and nostalgia for the arcade version. Needless to say the game has aged very poorly, but the purity of the concept is there, as with most Sega arcade games of that vintage. Still getting used to making the damn robots move properly.

Willy Wombat! I remember seeing previews of that in Sega Saturn Magazine back in the day.

So is Astal not as good as I was led to believe? It was never released in Europe, so I fear I may just be being enticed by the exoticness of it.

Following this line of reasoning, Super Tempo is definitely worth a shot. Not much going for it in the way of substance, but Tempo is easily the most charming of Sega's IPs next to Clockwork Knight, which you should definitely play.

See, now that looks great and all, but there's only one copy on eBay and it's asking for just over £200. I could get Radiant Silvergun for that and still have change for some Capcom fighters and dinner for two at a nice restaurant.

And Silhouette Mirage is probably my top favorite game of all time, but I'd personally recommend the PS version over the Saturn original. It's missing a few of the graphical flourishes, but the English translation and additional bosses are totally worth it, and having weapons deplete Spirit energy just makes so much more sense. The game is a total breeze otherwise, and this is the sort of thing that needs to be savored.

Weren't most of those "additions" added by the localisation team? I really don't like the principle of the whole thing. Besides, one of the big draws of owning a Saturn is the gorgeous 2D games, so opting for the notably inferior looking Playstation version would be a waste in my eyes.

Looks like I will opt for the Playstation version of Symphony of the Night though, given the horror stories I've heard about the Saturn port. That's a goddamn shame right there for the PS to have the superior version of a 2D game.


Anyone here played the Layer Section games?

I saw Dark Savior for a decent price at a second hand games store nearby. If it's still there I'll pick it up.

And are there any games where I really should pick one region version over another? I'm thinking stuff like Pepsiman in the Japanese Fighting Vipers.

[Ritz]

So is Astal not as good as I was led to believe? It was never released in Europe, so I fear I may just be being enticed by the exoticness of it.

It isn't a terrible platformer, but the controls are stilted, the gameplay isn't at all innovative, and the game isn't very long, either. People only really play it for the art, but it's well worth it in that respect. This was actually the case with most all of the Saturn's platformers, but if you're the sort of person who can enjoy a game on those merits and also relishes that feeling of haughty entitlement one tends to derive from owning some decidedly obscure merchandise, you're in for a real treat!

Weren't most of those "additions" added by the localisation team? I really don't like the principle of the whole thing. Besides, one of the big draws of owning a Saturn is the gorgeous 2D games, so opting for the notably inferior looking Playstation version would be a waste in my eyes.

It's your choice, but the game has a great story and some truly fantastic dialogue, so unless you can read what's being said, you're sorely missing out on what essentially comprises about 40% of the game's charm. That, and the Reaper was a cool boss. Your loss, though!

Oh, and though I tend to associate it with the PS above all else- and you'd probably have an easier time finding it there, honestly- Gex was on the Saturn too (And just about every other platform available at the time), so if you haven't played it yet, go for it. It's kind of the best platformer on the system by default.