Obama now President of USA.

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Baba O'Riley
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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Baba O'Riley »

Delphine wrote:
Baba O'Riley wrote:Anyways, most laws are based on Judeo-Christian ethos, and while I don't believe in anything remotely resembling a higher power, I recognize the fact that there's a certain inalienable cloud hanging over the collective head of the U.S., and it'll almost always determine the law, for better or for worse.
People need something to believe in. Whether that belief is "there is a great big man in the sky who loves us all (and by all I mean straight white men of course) very very much" or "we can be greater than this" or "everything is shit", you believe in something. Period. It's just easier to believe in something that has a pre-scripted doctrine than to go your own way. Hell, it's almost impossible to go your own way, because nearly everything has been done before.
Well, I know that. I'm not saying I'm a trailblazer. I'm an existentialist.



And it's nigh impossible to get into the head of each person who voted. Generalization is exactly the type of thing that we should be fighting, so lashing out against intolerance with another kind of intolerance is stupid.

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Zeta
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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Zeta »

Silly me for hoping like a crazy idealist that an oppressed minority would want to help another oppressed minority. I know my experiences as a person of a minority would keep me from ever voting for oppression. I was hoping that other people would feel the same, but apparently not. Now I'm wondering what good it is to support fellow people who are struggling in this world when they're just going to turn around and punch you in the gut right after you put your all into helping THEM get their shit together.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Delphine »

Take a breather, Zeta. This Is Not How This Shit Works. You will not prove to people that you are a valid, worthwhile individual who also happens to be gay if you retaliate with hatred. We are not going to scare them into liking us. Saying, well if you don't want rights for me, then I don't want rights for you! is only going to hinder us. I'm as upset as you are -- today has been an interesting day, with half of me wanting to hum joy and the other half wanting to scream -- but I'm not going to hate homophobes. I don't like them, I don't want to be near them and in the wrong circumstances I am afraid of them, but intellectually I can only pity them. How sad it is that they are so insecure with themselves that the fact I prefer the ladies instead of the dudes bothers them to the point of fear and hatred. We can't say that all black people are bad because the majority of black votes in CA voted yes on Prop 8. The majority of white voters also voted yes on Prop 8, as did the majority of latino voters. (I'm getting my numbers from CNN, and according to them, the majority of asians voted No. SWEET, HOT ASIAN LESBIANS.) 52% of CA votes voted Yes. But you know what? 48% voted No.

Look at this. The important part:
I voted here in San Francisco's Noe Valley neighborhood about two hours ago. It took about an hour to get through the line, and while standing there I was chatting with the 75-year-old retired cop in front of me, and the young 30-something gay couple in front of him, who had their two little girls in tow.

Everyone was in good spirits as the conversation moved from the Obama-McCain contest to the farce that is Sarah Palin, and then on to non-political matters, like the road work being done on the next block. The conversation between the cop and the couple started to get animated toward the end of our hour in line as the three men began to discuss the current football season, wagering bets for this weekend's games and making predictions for the Super Bowl.

And then, as we entered the firehouse that doubled as our polling place, as the couple and their daughters stepped out of line and up to the table to receive their ballots, I observed the cop in front of me. He opened his sample ballot, took out his pen, scribbled out his "yes" vote on Proposition 8, and filled in the ballot line for "no."
The lawsuits have already started. Cross your fingers, man. The fight isn't over.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by UCHU »

POLITICAL DEBATION

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CM August
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Post by CM August »

Zeta wrote:Silly me for hoping like a crazy idealist that an oppressed minority would want to help another oppressed minority.
Sadly, I've read that many gays snub transsexuals just as bad, but I could be mistaken. I'm sure you'd know more about what the issue there is. At any rate, here's hoping Prop 8 gets demolished yet.

So anyway, that election? Cool beans. I got to catch most of the victory speech. Very, very good.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Dr. Watson »

The victory speech was okay, but it lacked a memorable catchphrase. You know, something like "Ich bin ein first black president".

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Ritz »

Zeta wrote:Silly me for hoping like a crazy idealist that an oppressed minority would want to help another oppressed minority. I know my experiences as a person of a minority would keep me from ever voting for oppression. I was hoping that other people would feel the same, but apparently not. Now I'm wondering what good it is to support fellow people who are struggling in this world when they're just going to turn around and punch you in the gut right after you put your all into helping THEM get their shit together.
Blacks really aren't all that much of an oppressed minority these days, you know. When was the last time the news made mention of a black lynch mobbing occurring in the US?

Anyways, I think the problem here is that you're lumping blacks together with gays, with the only real connection between the two being that they're both minorities. In reality, both concepts are on entirely different tiers: the one thing which truly separates the African American from the Caucasian is skin color, which is something every backwoods Conservative can agree is an irrefutably natural and undecidable aspect of humanity. Homosexuals abide by a decidedly different physiology and, in some instances, ethos- only, being black was never condemned in any way, shape or form in the bible. When you consider that blacks on the whole are no less god-abiding than any other demographic, it really should come as no surprise that things turned out the way they did. They aren't going to turn a blind eye to an allegedly sinful practice because the offending party gave them handouts.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

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CM August wrote:Sadly, I've read that many gays snub transsexuals just as bad, but I could be mistaken.
From what I've seen the gay communities and trans communities are usually supportive of each other. Trans seems to be more of a polarising issue amongst feminist communities, where they're either welcomed with open arms or nastily shunned, with little in-between. The former appears to be more common than the latter though, fortunately.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Delphine »

I know you're all concerned, so I wanted to let everyone know: I got my Rock Band 2 code! Hurrah! I haven't downloaded the songs yet as I am too busy with NaNoWriMo, but I'm sure they will be fun to play.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Zeta »

From what I've seen the gay communities and trans communities are usually supportive of each other. Trans seems to be more of a polarising issue amongst feminist communities, where they're either welcomed with open arms or nastily shunned, with little in-between. The former appears to be more common than the latter though, fortunately.
Yes, the only time I ever see strife between the gay and trans communities is when one tries dating the other, like in cases where people don't tell potential partners up-front that they're trans and get a nasty surprise.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Baba O'Riley »

Delphine wrote:I know you're all concerned, so I wanted to let everyone know: I got my Rock Band 2 code! Hurrah! I haven't downloaded the songs yet as I am too busy with NaNoWriMo, but I'm sure they will be fun to play.
X Japan on Expert drums is paradoxically the best and the worst thing to happen to me in a week.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Delphine »

I'm gonna revive serious post is serious for a second, because I just took a look around the net and found out this is a fucking trend.

Let me break it down here. According to CNN's polls, 70% of blacks voted Yes. The black vote made up 10% of the vote, so that makes 7%. Seven percent. You're shitting me, right? This racist bullshit, as usual, doesn't even have a logical stem. It's just a bunch of kneejerk reactions from a bunch of overemotional fags who maybe don't realize that Dan Savage is kind of a prick and that they shouldn't listen to him. Do you know why Yes won on 8? Because of everyone. If we really want to play the blame game, let's go after the Mormon church, a bunch of polygamist hypocrites who are apparently sharing their one brain cell's worth of logic with the queer community. While we're at it, let's blame sexism on voles, the sun going down at night on the Atlantic ocean, and the Holocaust on acne, because it makes the same goddamn sense as blaming Prop 8 on black people.

So anyway. Anyone else play through Fable II yet? Did anyone else cackle gleefully while murdering the entire town of Oakridge? I may, in fact, be a bad person.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Baba O'Riley »

Del's absolutely correct. It's useless to blame individuals or demographics. Mostly, it goes back to the values that society has ingrained in the majority of voters who passed Prop. 8. Don't get mad at the ignorant; get mad at the society that tolerates, propagates, and encourages this behavior.
Delphine wrote:So anyway. Anyone else play through Fable II yet? Did anyone else cackle gleefully while murdering the entire town of Oakridge? I may, in fact, be a bad person.
It's hard work committing genocide, but by God, it's worth it.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Delphine »

Baba O'Riley wrote:It's hard work committing genocide, but by God, it's worth it.
The best part was, when I went back there after the ten-years-later plot event, a guardsman ran me down and forced me to pay a fine of around 17,000 gold. I didn't have the usual choice of community service or resist arrest. Human life has a price after all!

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Baba O'Riley »

Delphine wrote:
Baba O'Riley wrote:It's hard work committing genocide, but by God, it's worth it.
The best part was, when I went back there after the ten-years-later plot event, a guardsman ran me down and forced me to pay a fine of around 17,000 gold. I didn't have the usual choice of community service or resist arrest. Human life has a price after all!
No statute of limitations, either. Hm.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Zeta »

One of the things I've always toyed with was wanting to start a gay religion to validate gay marriage. If you prevent us then, you'd be preventing our right to practice our own religion. If every other group we're fighting against can hide behind a god, why don't we just start a church of Rainbor, the Rainbow God and get every gay to join until we're legitimized?

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

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I think that would run into the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" problem of "we know you're just fucking with us".

Friend of mine offered up the brilliant idea of if the government just stopped recognizing marriage. If two straight people want to get "married", they can get a civil union (with identical rights to marriage) for the legal benefits, and get the "married" label from their church. If two gay people want to get married, they get the same civil union, and can just consider themselves married. Make marriage just an entire state-of-mind type deal. The bigots can think, "I got married in a church, it's a real marriage; those queers down the street only think they're married" or whatever.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by K2J »

I had the same idea, actually. Just the term "marriage" has religious connotation in such a way that I think it should be restricted by separation of church-and-state laws.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Delphine »

It's not exactly a new idea. It won't work, though. Marriage is too deeply ingrained in secular tradition. It's fairly obvious that Christmas isn't about worshiping Jesus for the vast majority of people, but we're not going to start calling it "December 25th Day".

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

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I think we should get straight marriage banned just for shits and giggles.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by DackAttac »

Delphine wrote:It's not exactly a new idea. It won't work, though. Marriage is too deeply ingrained in secular tradition. It's fairly obvious that Christmas isn't about worshiping Jesus for the vast majority of people, but we're not going to start calling it "December 25th Day".
Touché. Maybe "brilliant" wasn't the word I should have used there. Maybe "ideal".

But then it would have been "ideal idea" and that just sounds dumb.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by G.Silver »

So can homosexuals get civil unions?

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Zeta
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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by Zeta »

So can homosexuals get civil unions?
In most states? No. In nearly every other Western Country? Yes.

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Re: Obama now President of USA.

Post by DackAttac »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Same ... in_USA.svg

In short: if you love your gender, you also better fucking love coastlines!

Once this democratic-majority congress gets seated, I'm seriously considering writing a very nice letter to the reps and senators for my area/state, expressing my interest and the constitutionality of an across-the-nation, equal-to-marriage (i.e., green on that map) civil union system, like the naïve little imp I am. (Obama did say, despite his opposition to gay marriage, he wouldn't veto such a bill. However, take that soundbite with as many grains of salt as needed for politics.)

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