What if there was a new American Sonic toon?

[Dr. Watson]

Seriously, why not? I can definetly imagine that it would be of a better quality than Sonic X. It seems that for some reason, kiddie-anime based on games or other licensed properties has in the last ten years or so (perhapes since the utterly crapable Pokemon anime became a financial succes) ben just awful. Garbage like Beyblade are probably among the most badly written feces to have ever stunk up our TV screens. And althogh Sonic X was definitely better than most of these shows, it still gave of some of those same "we-(the writers)-dont-really-give-a-piss-about-quality-cause-only-9-year-olds-will-be-watching-anyway"-vibes.

American kiddie action-cartoons on TV these days on the other hand, actually seems to have (if sometimes only slightly) better writing and even animation than their Japanese counterparts. Sure, there is a lot of crap amongst US action-toons as well, but shows like Teen Titans, Samurai Jack, Transformers Animated ect, tend to give me the impression that, even though crappy episodes pop up on a regular basis, the makers of these series atleast usually try to make the shows well ploted, exciting and even emotionally involving. And they quite often succeed.

So, why not give Sonic the "amerime" treatment that both Batman, Turtles, Transformers and so many other beloved franchises have gotten, and give him a brand new Teen Titans-esque cartoon? I think the Sonic universe is actually just about the ideal one for a series of that kind. Think about it; it has, at its core, a basic good vs evil plot that sets up for plenty of action-sequences but can also be greatly expanded upon story-wise, a cool cast of characters (some of them pretty shallow personality-wise, but nothing a good writer cant fix), and a tone and style that can both be comedic and lighthearted or very serious and dramatic.

So, yeah, thats just a thought i had. And i dont really have a standard dirtly joke or link to finish this post of with, so i'll just stop writing now.

[cjmcray]

I've actually been thinking the same thing lately.

While Sonic is japanese in origin, the characters and story really dont lend well to anime.

I would personally like to see a cartoon similar to AoSTH, only update it to feature SA character designs and such.
Oh, and ditch the vomit-colored sky, and 2nd grade scribbles that DiC called a background.

It would basically be Eggman in his lab, trying to think up new kooky and silly ways to rule Earth. Scratch and Grounder would be replaced with Shadow and Rouge, and episodes would mostly consist of Sonic/Tails at the forefront. Now and then Amy & Knuckles would show up, but id really like a Sonic/Tails focus like in the olden days. I think with an American writing staff, Sonic could be a lot more 'wittier' and Tails a lot more likable.

They could call it Sonic Adventures.

Tone would be lighearted and silly mostly, with occasional 'epic' episodes like 2 or 3-part adaptations of games.
For example, the series would start with just Sonic/Tails hanging out and constantly defeating Eggman, then at the end of the season, Knuckles first appears in a cliffhanger episode that is part of a Sonic & Knuckles adaption. Afterwards, he becomes a character that will occasionally show up from time to time. Later on at the end of the next season, Amy and Metal Sonic make their debut in a Sonic CD 2-part adapation, then they become series regulars. (Well, Amy does. Metal Sonic would be a rarely seen character, to keep his 'cool' factor) same with Shadow and Rouge, etc.

[Dasher]

Hmm...I dont know.

Did you guys actually liked those cartoons?, I didnt. I say bring more Sonic CD/OVA type quality stuff.

AoSTH was better than the horrible SatAM and Underground because it was just mindless humor, but even so...thats not what Sonic is all about.

I demand more OVA type Sonic stuff!

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

So, why not give Sonic the "amerime" treatment that both Batman, Turtles, Transformers and so many other beloved franchises have gotten, and give him a brand new Teen Titans-esque cartoon? I think the Sonic universe is actually just about the ideal one for a series of that kind. Think about it; it has, at its core, a basic good vs evil plot that sets up for plenty of action-sequences but can also be greatly expanded upon story-wise, a cool cast of characters (some of them pretty shallow personality-wise, but nothing a good writer cant fix), and a tone and style that can both be comedic and lighthearted or very serious and dramatic.

I'd agree with you, except you mentioned "amerime".

Honestly, I just don't like "anime". Whether it be anime made in Japan or anywhere else. Never did, never will. And it's not just the "same-y" character designs I hate. It's also their idea for humor, writing, story pacing, etc.

Why not just animate Sonic in American style? It'd work a lot better than anime. Plus, Sonic is an American style character....so it would work out even better that way. But yeah, I agree that Sonic plots would benefit a lot from being in the hands of an American team. I also wrote something in the movie topic about this, which I will now copy and paste:

I'd say give it to Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, and anyone else who writes for the DCAU. (Justice League, Batman Beyond, Batman the Animated Series) It could fit the Sonic style perfectly. (see Justice League for strongest similarity) I honestly think their writing and stories are fantastic. They're very far out and imaginitive, but at the same time, they make a lot of sense. Child-like, but smart and clever too. Something the Sonic series tries to do, but falls just a little short.

Not only that, but the DCAU has a good sense of character. And whenever a story gets too caught up in its own seriousness, they throw in some comic relief. Something the Sonic series oh-so-desperately needs for it's main storylines. It's a way to keep you interested and make the characters more likeable.

Seriously, if you notice, the Sonic series today has become like some kind of comic-bookish, superhero type of thing. If you put it in the hands of writers who deal with this stuff all the time, then we'll have something awesome.

[BlazeHedgehog]

Some would argue that Sonic X was American-made; at least series 2. I don't think it ever aired in Japan. 4KIDS has paid for additional episodes of Ultimate Muscle in the past, so it's not out of their league to buy more Sonic X.

I could see a Teen-Titans-styled Sonic, though. Sort of angular and loose, with a focus on acrobatics and combat. Though, considering 4KIDS would probably be attached to it (lest we get an entirely new voice cast - contracts and all that jazz), I don't think I would be willing to watch it. Style is not everything.

[Dasher]

Sonic X started good but then tarnished when it started RE-telling the Adventure 1 and 2 saga, it was stupid cuz it was the same thing we all played plus it confused noobs, then the Cosmo saga was too farfetch. -_-;

[Ngangbius]

While Sonic is japanese in origin, the characters and story really dont lend well to anime.

I have to disagree with you on that considering Sonic's best animated incarnations were...well, Dasher's post after yours says it all.

It would basically be Eggman in his lab, trying to think up new kooky and silly ways to rule Earth. Scratch and Grounder would be replaced with Shadow and Rouge,

So what you are saying Shadow and Rouge would be like the Sonic version of Team Rocket?

Also, I can't really picture a new Sonic toon even if it was made in America to be good. Sega would probably outsource to the cheapest, talentless writers soon as possible because it would be just another part of merchandise that will do well with the franchise target audience as a vehicle to sell more games(or toys).

[K2J]

I'd approve of this idea, but I think the games themselves need a boot first. Personally, the RPG may be a good step; it is done by a Western team, after all.

So what you are saying Shadow and Rouge would be like the Sonic version of Team Rocket?

Rouge: Prepare for Evil!
Shadow *points to Nack*: And this weasel!
Rouge: To inject this show with titillation!
Shadow: To give rise to emos within this nation!
Rouge: To give 9-year-old boys fantasies with leather gloves!
Shadow: To hope Maria's death doesn't get cut out of the dubs!
Rouge: Rouge!
Shadow: Shadow!
Rouge: Team Rocket makes theft and destruction look quite trite!
Shadow: Due to Maria's death I hold against you quite a lot of spite!
Nack: Fang/Nack! That's right! *shoots you*

[Dasher]

lol, someone needs to make a flash out of that. :P

[cjmcray]

While Sonic is japanese in origin, the characters and story really dont lend well to anime.

I have to disagree with you on that considering Sonic's best animated incarnations were...well, Dasher's post after yours says it all.

I don't know, while Sonic X was more true to the games than any American incarnation, with the inclusion of emeralds, Super Sonic and even Flickies, it was still pretty bleh to watch. Most episodes consisted of Sonic sitting around Chris' house napping while Chris, Tails Amy and Cream did something of no interest, then Eggman shows up with a robot, Sonic defeats it with one hit, everybody laughs, credits. Let's not forget how the animation quality declined after the first ten episodes to total butt. An example:

First few episodes:











And then all of a sudden we get this:








I did sortof enjoy the OVA after watching it a few times, so I guess something in that vain might work, but I still think Sonic is best suited for an american animation studio, in terms of writing him funny dialogue and making Tails a bit more likable, and ditching uber-realism in favor of some whimsical-looking worlds and silly storylines. Sonic's had enough whiny humans, and epic end-of-the-world bullshit.

[Dasher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpSKzaq3-cw

Sonic cartoons you say? well...If you mean something like this, then yes!

I soooo wanted to see part 2 of that.

[Radrappy]

I don't think I would very much enjoy any sonic "amerime" bullshit. That "man of the year" animated short in addition to the Sonic CD cut scenes demonstrate how wonderfully sonic can be represented with both sensibilities. AOSTH and Sonic X are trash because of poor writing, planning, and vision, not because sonic is either suited to one style or another. What on earth good would a hybrid of the two do?

Also, no one wants a new Sonic show. Sonic X didn't do so well and that was long before Sonic 360 came out. This video game character needs to have good video games before doing just about anything else.

[BlazeHedgehog]

The drop in animation quality for Sonic X is likely explained by the fact it was originally intended to be 26 episodes long (if I remember right). Somewhere down the line they doubled that, but they probably didn't have the budget for another 26 so they stretched it fairly thin.

[Dr. Watson]

I just want to mention that i did'nt perceive my hypothetical new American Sonic toon as being "amerime" cause i like that style. Quite the contrary, i think shows like Transformers: Animated and the like are butt ugly. I said "amerime" simpley because that is the only style that american action-cartoons have these days, which means that if there was a new Sonic cartoon, it would be amerime, whether we like it or not.

The animation in Amerime is kinda like a mix between the worst of two worlds. In anime, the motions of the characters are usually choppy, but there is more emphasis on detailed backrounds and objects and such. Contrary wise, in classical american cartoons, the motions of the characters are usually fluid and well animated, while both characters and backgrounds are very simplistic and non-detailed. In amerime however, you have both the choppy movements of anime and the non-detailed characters and backrounds of american cartoons. In other words, a style that is ideal if you want to animate quickly and cheaply.

[Gaz]

I really don't see any point. There have been 4 different Sonic cartoon series now and none of them are really any good(although some are more tolerable than others). I just don't see why a new cartoon made now would turn out any better. Maybe if they got a decent team who are actually fans of the games to make it with a good budget we might get something decent but the chances of that happening are practically zero. A new cartoon would probably be little more than a cheaply made extended advertisement.

[Dasher]

Its all about the person in charge, Oshima is gone so I dont see much hope in Sonic turning to what he was in the past.

Only Nintendo and a select few has shown to know him even more than the current Sonic Team does.

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

If there's one thing Sonic X got right, it's that they nailed Eggman's personality PERFECTLY. He was my favorite part of the show. He was wacky and child-like, and at the same time sinister, insane, and completely unstable and dangerous. I mean, the same guy who was doing stuff like this:






....was also doing stuff like this:





It was great....and they really need to put more of that personality in the games. Sure, they let it show through his robot designs and such....but I want see see more of it actually be acted out.

As for the OVA, it's my favorite animated version of Sonic....simply because the story was a perfect blend of seriousness and comedy while still keeping a good amount of action. I wouldn't mind another Sonic cartoon similar to this....just drop the 10 fps animation and get an American team behind it.

[Isuka]

... Looking at most of your posts is like taking a ride to 1994 with the De Lorean, only sadder.

So what you are saying Jessie and James would be like the Pokémon version of Scratch and Grounder?

Fix'd.

Actually, most of Sonic X's first episode (the original Japanese one) was incredibly cool until Christopher kicked in, afterwards I went back to watching Slayers or Those Who Hunt Elves or some other shit. Sonic's world needs not only good games, but also some two or three 15-minutes long animated episodes of great production value and call it a day.

[Dasher]

You know what I hated about Sonic X? that Sonic was an alien of sorts and didnt know what humans were, when in the games he has always lived on Earth with HUMANS! why did they brought that aproach?

That "man of the year" cartoon shows how a Sonic show shouldve been made, did anyone noticed that San fransico is mentioned in SA2 and South America is mentioned in Sonic Jump? Eggman clearly says "citicens of Earth" in SA2.

I think it has always been those animators taking liberal lisensing, ugh...that OVA was set on another planet but it was nice so I forgive them, Sonic X on the other hand seemed to please the american fans or should I say the Archie fans, Japanese do read the Archie comics. Ugh. Then 4KIDS raped it blah blah blah...

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

Why do you think that Sonic X would please Archie fans? And I don't recall Sonic not knowing what humans are. I DO remember him wondering why THEY didn't know HIM. Not the other way around.

Some Sonic X episodes were pretty solid. I really liked the first one where Sonic was messing with that racecar driver's ego. Running backwards, jumping on the car, etc. Kinda wish they would've placed more emphasis on Sonic's incredible abilities in other episodes like they did with the first. Instead, Sonic's usually on a roof lounging and doesn't participate in the action until, like, 5 minutes before the show ends.

I haven't seen much of the second series though. (the one with Cosmo)

[Dasher]

I recall Sonic saying "what are they?" and Sonic's world didnt have a single human, just criters in villages like archie.

[Ngangbius]

Why is it called called "Amerianme"(whatever) anyway? That style found in Loonitics, Ben 10, the current TF toon the folks here refer to is more influnenced from DCAU and their angular style than anime.

Yeah, I agree that I rather have SEGA put more money and time into good Sonic games than promoting the franchise with yet a cartoon. What's the point? Sonic is supposed to be a game franchise first and formost.

[cjmcray]

I pretty much only liked episodes 2, 3, 5, 9, 11 and 14 of Sonic X. Every other episode made me cringe. I kept watching until episode 26, only so I could see the first animated appearance of Super Sonic. After that, I all too happily ditched the show. People blame the 4Kids dub for the show's sucking, but the dub was merely salt on an already open wound. The show was pretty bland, irritating and uninspired from the start.

Sonic X would've worked better as an anime movie than an anime series, I think. They could've really bumped up the budget, and spent more time in Sonic's world before the eventual switch to Earth, and Chris probably would only be reduced to 30 minutes of screentime given all the other plot developments occuring. Also, 4Kids wouldn't have touched it, since they only dub series, not standalone movies.

[DackAttac]

I guess what I never understood about Sonic X was their need to to incorporate new characters like Chris, his friends, his family... he had a fucking entourage. He brought more people into the fray than Shadow alone (Gerald, Maria, Black Doom... I could probably count each and every one of the Black Arms and Chris would still come in ahead.) I too stopped watching after Super Sonic, so I don't quite know what universe the Adventure adaptations happened in or what the deal is with Cosmo. It's like whoever conceived the whole storyline neglected the fact that it's not 1992 anymore, the games were capable of weaving plotlines on their own, and no longer had to be augmented by typical cartoon flourishes à la SatAM. Honestly, for everyone who bitches about every new character that gets added to the games (and, really, rightfully so at this point), Sonic X never seemed to catch quite as much flack on that level.

I guess I do know the answer to the question of Chris' inclusion on some level; that this is designed for six-year-olds who wish more than anything else in the whole wide world that Sonic the Hedgehog was real so they could go on adventures with him. I mean, what did Chris do other than quietly shelter the crew and occasionally play hostage? I think what irked me most is there was a Sonic plotline, and a generic "aliens in the world who must be protected, so the FBI are villains!" plotline that could have been strapped on to any Saturday morning cartoon. And what bugged me the most was when the latter intruded on the former, which was already limited by Earth-like surroundings anyway.

Sonic X was one of those things what made me think, coming off of SA2 and with the announcement of Heroes on the horizon, that Sonic was entering another mid-90's-esque pop culture entry. God, could I have been more wrong?

[Esrever]

I'm pretty sure Sonic X's problem was bad writing and zero budget, not being Japanese. Sonic X was made by TMS, the same studio that animated episodes of Batman, Batman Beyond, Cybersix, Superman, and DuckTales, not to mention some of the original AoStH cartoon AND that cool Animaniacs-esque animated short on the Sonic Jam disc.

There's only one explanation for why Sonic X's animation was frequently so much worse than those shows -- and it's the same reason why previous Sonic shows were animated by Dic (quite possibly THE worst studio in TV animation at the time). Sega spends zero money on the development of these cartoons. They're bad because they are cheap, regardless of where they are made, end of story.