Sonic 3 is where the series started to go downhill.

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MiraiTails
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Sonic 3 is where the series started to go downhill.

Post by MiraiTails »

At least, that's what 1up.com thinks.

When I read the article posted at TSS, I naturally assumed that 1up gave Sonic 3 (for the VC) thumbs down because it's "incomplete" without S&K, or because it's been released so many times before. Not so.
1up.com wrote: Something is horribly amiss about Sonic's third outing. Is it the fact that the game wasn't fully completed and half the content was held back for the "sequel," Sonic & Knuckles? Is it the messy level designs, which seem to have been constructed specifically for the sake of bogging Sonic down with small, annoying impediments? Is it the dull and forgettable enemies? The tepid soundtrack? The irritating bonus stages? Ah, maybe it's all the above. Sonic 3 is, in retrospect, the point where the series' star lost some of its shine -- a decent if unremarkable game. Given its pedigree, "decent" isn't good enough.
Color me baffled.

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Shadow Hog
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Post by Shadow Hog »

IIRC, this is Jeremy Parish speaking. Mr. "SONIC IS NOT FUN IF I'M NOT GOING FAST GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO". He has about as much credibility as a toothpick when it comes to this franchise.

And yes, that's a terrible analogy. I know.

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Isuka
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Post by Isuka »

I used toothpicks that had quite a bit more knowledge about this franchise than this guy. Those are both a bad review and a bad analogy, in my very humble opinion.

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Post by Radrappy »

I'm glad we can go back in time and make all of these games terrible. Jolly good.

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Majestic Joey
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Post by Majestic Joey »

They can say what they want about sonic being shit now with games like Heroes and 06 but saying sonic 3 is bad? now they are just being assholes now. or asshole, it was only one person who reviewed this game right?

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Kogen
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Post by Kogen »

Isn't that the same guy that bitched because the black girl in VF was slightly lighter than the last game? Apparently it ruined his ebony fetish so he probably hates SEGA now.

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Post by FlashTHD »

As one TSS commenter put it, tripe like this wouldn't pass muster at -GameFAQs-, and this pinhead's getting away with it and being paid cash moolah for it. But, thank god, there's no established trend to go this far back to slime the series.

Yet.
Isn't that the same guy that bitched because the black girl in VF was slightly lighter than the last game? Apparently it ruined his ebony fetish so he probably hates SEGA now.
I don't doubt he'd be that big a bitch, but:

what

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Post by Esrever »

When I was a kid, I remember being disappointed by Sonic 3. It wasn't until Sonic and Knuckles came out and I could play the real full game that I changed my mind and decided it was the best of the series.

Sonic 3 on it's own is too short and not nearly varied enough, and without a playable Knuckles you can't even fully appreciate the intricacy of the stages it does have. And yes, the music is worse than the previous two games as well.

But even with the all the flaws caused by the game's unnatural division, it's still a heck of a lot better than Bonk or Bonk's Adventure! The thumbs down is pretty confusing.

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Post by Locit »

FlashTHD wrote:I don't doubt he'd be that big a bitch, but:

what
Yeah, some sort of explanation would be great right about now.

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Kogen
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Post by Kogen »

Apparently it's not the same guy, so it doesn't matter.

And it was this I was thinking of:

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=684 ... Id=5434832

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Popcorn
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Post by Popcorn »

Esrever wrote:And yes, the music is worse than the previous two games as well.
You know, I could never make my mind up about that. Sonic 1 and 2 have some of the best tunes of the era, but I like Sonic 3's stuff too-- it's not as charmingly simple or maybe not as catchy, but it's richer, deeper. I guess that's the difference between Sonic 3 and the earlier games in a nutshell, though.

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Post by Ngangbius »

Esrever wrote:When I was a kid, I remember being disappointed by Sonic 3. It wasn't until Sonic and Knuckles came out and I could play the real full game that I changed my mind and decided it was the best of the series.

Sonic 3 on it's own is too short and not nearly varied enough, and without a playable Knuckles you can't even fully appreciate the intricacy of the stages it does have. And yes, the music is worse than the previous two games as well.
I had that similar experience when I was young, playing Sonic 3 also. The game felt different than the previous Sonic platformers and not exactly in a good way. I really disliked the change in Sonic's sprite, and this game is where we see a change of moving away from a surrealistic, geometrical art design to a emulating a more realistic on. I was really disappointed when I beat the game because even at the time for me, it really did feel unfinished. The final boss was too easy and the final confrontation with Knuckles was underwhelming.

I really can't decide about the music for the same reason's as Popcorn, though I do think Sonic's 3 credits theme were much better than the medleys of the other Sonic Genesis games.

Nevertheless, had S&K not been released then I would have considered Sonic 3 the "Shark Jumping moment" of the platforming Sonic games. I do agree that this game isn't worth buying on it's own on the VC, though to be fair I think the same way about Sonic 1 and 2 seeing that you can get SMC for much less money than what you would pay on VC.

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Post by Light Speed »

I remember beating Sonic 3 with my friend and thinking, "Hmm, that was like half of what Sonic 2 was." The save system, while a blessing, also made the game feel that much shorter. I liked a lot of the music in Sonic 3 though, of my favorite songs from the series I have about an equal mix from all 3 games. Well proportionally equal anyway since S3&K had way more music than Sonic 1. Like everyone else though, once I got Sonic and Knuckles the conjunction became my favorite game in the series.

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Post by Arcade »

It was after the Saturn era when things started to go wrong…for some reason I liked Sonic 3 more than 2, wait it was for the bonus stages, the Sonic 2 bonus stages sucked!.

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Post by Oompa Star »

The only thing I didn't like about Sonic 3 was that one spot in Carnival Night Act 2. That in of itself made the game incomplete for me, if that makes any sense. I preferred the original Sonic 3 tunes for the title screen, Knuckles appearences, and sub-bosses over the S&K versions. They were just more upbeat.

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Post by Isuka »

One word, and you know it: Hydrocity.
And yeah, the staff roll theme. Actually I like it a lot better than "Stranger in Moscow", though it feels kind of incomplete, what with looping more than 10 times till the credits finished.

I still think Nakamura's style gave Sonic 1 and 2 some type of uniformity that made them truly feel like prequel and sequel of each other, so both the graphical and aural change in 3 made it feel disconnected to both those games and Sonic CD (either soundtrack). I found that a little off-putting, but ultimately the intricate paths and varied layout payed off, resulting in a more challenging and entertaining experience than any of the previous titles (though CD isn't precisely straightforward, it's layout was in fact more "messy" than variegated).

Oh, and I like S&K's jingles better. So I won't play with you anymore!

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Popcorn
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Post by Popcorn »

Ngangbius wrote: I do think Sonic's 3 credits theme were much better than the medleys of the other Sonic Genesis games.
The Sonic 3 credits music is one of the best pieces of music ever written for a video game. I actually worked it out on piano, once, but I'm not one of those people who uploads their half-baked music covers to Youtube. Or in fact anything.

Further fuel for the fire: I never liked the 3D S3K title screens. That's one ugly Sonic. Sonic 2's remains the best. Even though-- get this-- Sonic 2 is the worst of the 'classic' series.

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Isuka
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Post by Black Rook »

I think we can all agree that, as a final zone, Launch Base was crap. But as a midway point, I like it.

As for the music, I like S3&K and Nakamura's scores equally. Sonic 1 and 2 had a jazzy feel that I think should be the starting point for any Sonic soundtrack, but I also like S3&K's more dramatic sounding pieces. I think a soundtrack that could combine these two styles would be great for a future Sonic game (though Sonic Adventure had a bit of both, with some tolerable and even enjoyable amounts of cock rock, before they went overboard with it).

Even if it's not Sonic 3 and thus technically off-topic... am I alone in loving the Flying Battery theme?

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Post by Ngangbius »

Sonic 3's OST sounds so complex compared to the last Sonic Genesis games, that it almost seemed that it wasn't truly made for the system's soundchip at time. I wonder if it would had been an improvement had the Genesis had a more powerful soundchip like the SNES's.
Popcorn wrote:Further fuel for the fire: I never liked the 3D S3K title screens. That's one ugly Sonic. Sonic 2's remains the best.
I can agree with this. I prefered both Sonic 1 & 2 title screen to Sonic 3's--especially with the music. Ugh, I remember the first time getting the "Invincibility" power-up. It was the most annoying tune I ever heard in a Sonic game. It's even worse when you are able to become Super Sonic since it loops even longer.
Even though-- get this-- Sonic 2 is the worst of the 'classic' series.
This however, I cannot agree to. I can't simply call Sonic 2 the worst of the series when it introduced the ever useful "Sonic Spin-Dash".

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Post by Isuka »

Black Rook wrote:Even if it's not Sonic 3 and thus technically off-topic... am I alone in loving the Flying Battery theme?
No sir, particularly not if you like Act 1 mix better.
That, both mixes of Lava Reef and (to a lesser degree) Sky Sanctuary and Death Egg are particularly powerful/ catchy compositions.

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Post by Oompa Star »

Another theme I like from S3&K is the Eggman boss theme. There was something about it that fit Eggman and man the boss fights more epic for me.
Black Rook wrote:Even if it's not Sonic 3 and thus technically off-topic... am I alone in loving the Flying Battery theme?
My brother is absolutely fond of it. I find it delicious for ears as well.
Last edited by Oompa Star on Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Timestones »

The thing that pushed the music for Sonic 3 (&K) over the top for me and made me love them were how the music for each zone changed between acts, but were both essentially different variations of one theme. I think that was a really nice touch and made moving from act 1 to act 2 more interesting to me back then, even though I didn't fully appreciate it at the time.

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Post by Esrever »

I like the music OK, and a few of the songs (Sonic 3's end credits, for example) are fantastic, but I still think the first two games were better.

Like Pop pointed out, with S3K they were definitely shooting for richer, deeper, more complex songs than the simpler, more pop Nakamura tunes. But it's probably because they are more ambitious that they haven't held up as well. Simple, catchy tunes pair better with the sound capabilities of the basic, ancient sound hardware. Even today they still sound "right"... while the attempts at deeper stuff just kind of come across like listening to a symphony played by a trio of kazoos.

It's kind of like comparing the soundtracks of Mario World and Donkey Kong Country.

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Post by CM August »

I find it difficult to compare the two. DKC managed to get a lot more out of the sound chip than SMW, not to mention having some of the best music on the SNES. I think it's aged just as well as the Mario classic.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a bit different from that, since there was no real improvement in sound or instrument quality between it and Sonic 2. Along with the fact that, much as I hate to say it, the compositions just weren't as good.

It hardly indicated a downward slant though; S3&K improved Sonic in many ways.

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