Rockstar and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day

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Shadow Hog
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Rockstar and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day

Post by Shadow Hog »

It starts with the BBFC <a href="http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/19/rocks ... ">refusing to rate <i>Manhunt 2</i></a>, effectively banning it in England. <a href="http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/19/elspa ... tf/">ELSPA backs them up completely on this.</a> Then some whiny watchdog group <a href="http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/19/manhu ... n/">called for the ESRB to rate the game AO</a>... what's new about that? Simple, the very same day, <a href="http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/19/retai ... only/">the ESRB did just that</a> (although I'm sure the whiny watchdog group had no impact on this decision, nope). <a href="http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/19/rocks ... ">Rockstar "emphatically disagree[s]"</a>, while the BBFC swears up and down that their decision <a href="http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/19/no-po ... bbfc/">was not politically influenced</a>.

So yeah, I'm sure glad to not be working at Rockstar today.

BTW, a bit of a non-sequitur, how was <i>Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition</i>? The reviews seem to be GLOWING...

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Post by Green Gibbon! »

Rockstar is utterly irrelevant and so is Manhunt 2. Talk about Resident Evil if you like, because otherwise this thread will be deleted.

SO.

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Post by James McGeachie »

How is that anything other than your own opinion? I actually clicked on the thread entirely expecting that reply but come on, this isn't even about the game, it's about the fact it's been banned in 2 countries and has received an Adult Only rating in the US. Hell, the Wii version might not even be able to be sold anywhere worldwide, as NoA at least have a policy against not releasing AO games on their systems.

It's pretty big gaming news regardless of whether you even give half a shit about Rockstar or a single game they've ever developed. It's more about the discussion of the world's censorship standards once again.

I assume in your mind you already added "Thou shall not discuss any content that does not interest mine self" to the commandments but unfortunately it slipped your mind to make it official.

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Post by Ngangbius »

Concerning Manhunt 2, look at that hype machine go! I could see them gaining sales for the inevitable M-rated version for retailers, advertising it to the public as "so hot, it had to be banned in several countries". Or I can see them also selling the AO version through online retail only in addition to the M version advertising the same thing.
James M. wrote:Hell, the Wii version might not even be able to be sold anywhere worldwide, as NoA at least have a policy against not releasing AO games on their systems.
Aren't Sony and MS sorta touchy in this subject also? I do know that they were cases in censorship in Sony releases of multiplatform games such as BMX XXX and Killer 7 and I wouldn't be surprised if MS would distance themselves in support of a AO game. I heard reports that GTA:SA was briefly pulled off the selves with the 'hot coffee' mod edit out in new copies.

That said in RE4:Wii do you have a choice between Wii and traditional controls? And how is the Wii controls?
Last edited by Ngangbius on Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Shadow Hog »

Concerning <i>RE4</i>'s controls, yes, you can use the Gamecube controller if you must, but apparently the Wii controls are that much better... unless you're from Eurogamer, in which case they're worse for some reason or another. Still, very few big name reviewers have gotten at the game yet, so I'm still awaiting reviews from, say, GameSpot, IGN or 1Up...

And yeah, distributing the AO-rated game online doesn't sound like TOO bad an idea... they're going to have to censor it for England, anyway, though.

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Post by James McGeachie »

Actually the BBFC specifically stated that they don't even believe the game can be edited to meet their standards.

Also talking about Resident Evil in this thread is somewhat ridiculous.

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Post by Green Gibbon! »

It's more about the discussion of the world's censorship standards once again.
Except that it's utterly moot considering the game in question is irrelevant and the controversy is exactly what the developer is counting on in the first place. Everyone is missing the point.

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Post by Wooduck51 »

<a HREF=http://wii.ign.com/articles/797/797837p1.html>IGN says RE4:Wii, is Fantastic </a>

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Post by Popcorn »

Green Gibbon! wrote:
It's more about the discussion of the world's censorship standards once again.
Except that it's utterly moot considering the game in question is irrelevant and the controversy is exactly what the developer is counting on in the first place. Everyone is missing the point.
What's the point? That you don't like the game so it doesn't matter? I don't like the game either-- I mean, I haven't played it or anything but I don't like it, I guarantee it-- but censorship sucks. Yeah, this is the kind of controversy Rockstar laps up, but unless it gets successfully appealed, there's no way they're going to profit from this. If it does get appealed, sure, it's all roses for Rockstar-- but what are you saying then? That it was all part of the plan?

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Post by Green Gibbon! »

But it's such a tired old story. GTA, BMX XXX, Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Custer's Revenge, even. Idiotic games that don't matter and garner sick amounts of publicity from political types who don't understand or care enough to learn which incites further ruckus from players that only serves to legitimize the political stupidity over games that are utterly stupid to begin with! It's a self-fueling circle of stupid that was novel 20 years ago.

Indeed, had the topic actually been about the game and his impressions of it that would be okay. Not that I would've read it, mind.

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Post by Popcorn »

Green Gibbon! wrote:But it's such a tired old story. GTA, BMX XXX, Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Custer's Revenge, even. Idiotic games that don't matter and garner sick amounts of publicity from political types who don't understand or care enough to learn which incites further ruckus from players that only serves to legitimize the political stupidity over games that are utterly stupid to begin with! It's a self-fueling circle of stupid that was novel 20 years ago.
It shouldn't still be happening, though, and I think it's right to object to it.

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Post by Shadow Hog »

Well, the game doesn't come out until July 10th or so, so I can't say as I've had hands-on impressions... I'll go on record saying that I don't really care for the concept, though. Killing for the sake of killing, well... this is one game that actually merits the term "murder simulator", since the other games that the term's been tossed towards usually have SOME merit to them. <i>Doom</i> has you saving the Earth (or trying, at least) from demons of hell, which is a noble cause. <i>Mortal Kombat</i> has, AFAIK, a bunch of fighters trying to prevent some all-powerful demon from reaching Earth and killing everyone or something like that - which is noble enough. This game has you killing people for what reason again? As best I can tell, because you CAN. So, yeah, while the other games contain murder, at least they're somewhat excusable... this game isn't.

Ergo, I don't suppose that I'm surprised that it's banned. It's a shame, though; since this kind of sick game seems to be what sells right now, it would've definitely gone well with the Wii... although I kinda wish it was <i>GTA</i> instead, seeing as that, even with its senseless murder, is considerably tamer. Not to mention that IT was the big seller, moreso than <i>Manhunt</i> ever was.

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Post by Green Gibbon! »

It shouldn't still be happening, though, and I think it's right to object to it.
But dude, it means nothing anymore, much less with Rockstar whose whole business philosophy revolves around it. First it was GTA then State of Emergency and Manhunt and hot coffee and Bully and it's the same old schtick from all 3 peanut galleries every time. Maybe the kids at Gamefaqs and IGN care, but I liked to think we were above that.

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Post by Popcorn »

Green Gibbon! wrote:
It shouldn't still be happening, though, and I think it's right to object to it.
But dude, it means nothing anymore, much less with Rockstar whose whole business philosophy revolves around it. First it was GTA then State of Emergency and Manhunt and hot coffee and Bully and it's the same old schtick from all 3 peanut galleries every time. Maybe the kids at Gamefaqs and IGN care, but I liked to think we were above that.
Above what? Above objecting to censorship? It's censorship. I hate censorship. It's patronising, unecessary, and unfair. I couldn't give any less of a shit about the game if you gave me a drano enema, but that's not the issue. It's the principle of the thing I personally object to, and I object to it very strongly.

What are you saying, that it's all part of some cynical marketing ploy? It's not real? Maybe you're just saying it doesn't matter, but then you're as bad as the guys banning this stuff: you don't like it, so it's fine for it to be banned? What's the deal?

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Post by Zeta »

I think Gibbon is saying that Rockstar makes games that are "Rated M For Money":

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... dMForMoney

Although Bully was an awesome game.

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Post by Segaholic2 »

Yeah, I'm with Popcorn on this one. Gibbon's stance here is unclear and confusing. Censorship sucks period. Even if it's a crappy game like Manhunt 2 that has to fight against it, it's still for the betterment of the industry as a whole, and gamers like ourselves in turn.

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Post by Senbei »

I think I see where Gibbon's coming from in that censoring games has always been a big media hype, both in and outside of the industry. It's just a story that's been covered to death, and every time it's retold everyone gets riled up all over again. Not that I really care; I'd happily read through another thread about the existence of God if someone brought that up again.

Anyway, concerning the game in question, I fail to see what the big deal is. After all, it's just murder and it's not like there's any sex involved.

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Post by Locit »

What other restrictions apply to Adults Only games that don't apply to Mature games? Do they tack on another few years to the 18+ age limit, or what?

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Post by Opa-Opa »

Adults Only
Good thing we are all adults.

Right?

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Post by Segaholic2 »

Locit wrote:What other restrictions apply to Adults Only games that don't apply to Mature games? Do they tack on another few years to the 18+ age limit, or what?
Mature games are 17+. Adults Only games are 18+.

So aside from the one-year age difference in restriction, the fact that most major game retailers (including Wal-Mart and EB/GameStop) won't stock AO games is pretty much a sales death sentence.

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Post by Ngangbius »

Senbei wrote: Anyway, concerning the game in question, I fail to see what the big deal is. After all, it's just murder and it's not like there's any sex involved.
I bet there is some sex involved if it received an AO instead of an M.

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Post by DackAttac »

That was my initial reaction, but it appears to be all blood and gore and—get this—the fact that the Wiimote use makes it seem "more real".

Way to go, Nintendo. Way. to. go.

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Post by James McGeachie »

DackAttac wrote: Way to go, Nintendo. Way. to. go.
This is the second time I've seen someone hinting that they blame Nintendo remotely for the ordeal, which is even stupider than the fact it got banned in the first place. Nintendo don't go down to the studios and make recommendations on how best to use their control method to execute people, they offer development kits and developers choose how best to utilise the controls for their productions by themselves.

If your comment has anything to do with the entire concept of motion control leading to this development that's equally as daft, as it's not like the industry can repress control developments simply because someone "might" use them for controversial material.

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Re: Rockstar and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad D

Post by Delphine »

Shadow Hog wrote:BTW, a bit of a non-sequitur, how was <i>Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition</i>? The reviews seem to be GLOWING...
Of course the reviews are glowing. Everyone is in love with RE4, why would they give it a bad review, despite the fact that it's a port and I can easily play RE4 on my Wii by slipping my Gamecube disc in? Oh, that's right, it has <i>waggle</i>.

I mean, for fuck's sake. I still play Wii Sports, and I <i>loathe</i> sports games. This console has some serious potential, and all anyone can do is fucking ports.

As for the Rockstar thing? This is exactly the kind of attention a game like this wants. I doubt they expected the AO rating, though.

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Post by One Classy Bloke »

With a game like Manhunt, how can you not expect an AO rating?

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