If Nintendo owned Sonic and Co.

Post by **Esrever** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:18 pm

How about a 2D Sonic by Naughty Dog? They have Yasuhara already! You'd just have to find a way to suppress their gun fetish.

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:38 pm

Eh, well, they did kinda make <i>Crash Bandicoot</i>, which was completely gun-less (well, for the player character anyway, and only AFAIK)... so they could have the design down pat. That or they could express their gun fetish in the form of excessive firepower in Eggman's machinery, which wouldn't be particularly out of character at all. Plus Yasuhara would be able to make level design that isn't linear as hell, as said <i>Bandicoot</i> games were.

Of course, this would mean they'd probably be Sony-exclusive (seeing as Naughty Dog seems to only develop for Sony consoles), which is something I'd rather NOT have happen (I am currently not planning on EVER owning a PS3 or PSP, thanks), but the game might at least be good.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:24 pm

Frieza2000 wrote:Giving Sonic to Nintendo would probably be akin to putting him on permanent life support or having him stuffed and mounted. He'd be around forever, surviving on a steady stream of competent games, but the soul will have long since departed.

I find this to be already happening, minus the competency.

Esrever wrote:How about a 2D Sonic by Naughty Dog? They have Yasuhara already!

Only if it's a true platformer and not...whatever they heck they did to Jak 2 & 3.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:53 pm

Only if it's a true platformer and not...whatever they heck they did to Jak 2 & 3.

Grand Theft Mario.

I find this to be already happening, minus the competency.

Agreed.

DackAttac · Post by **DackAttac** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:27 pm

I really hope the Olympic game, for all its campiness, is enough fun and bulky enough to convince people that Sonic could work under Nintendo's eye.

Sure, Sonic's "edge" would probably be diminished with canned " 'tude" and G-rated faux-punk dialogue. Which is a shame with the to-a-T portrayal he was served in Wildfire. Indignantly saving Eggman with his foot? And finally jeering Knuckles again? All while sporting hand-drawn (not rendered) expressions from his mid-90's heyday? Hell, he was a bona fide badass in that game, up until those horrible, horrible last 45 seconds.

But truth be told, my fears are kind of unfounded, in that they all imagine Sonic in Mario's world. So I guess it could come through in spades if done correctly (and that isn't as much of a stretch of reality as with Sega these days.)

Frieza2000 · Post by **Frieza2000** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:51 am

Ngangbius wrote:I find this to be already happening, minus the competency.

If you remove the competence I'd say a better analogy is that Sonic's been raped, shot, and left for dead in an ally, and the steady stream of games we continue to receive are photographs of his corpse on a soulless 24 hour news network, or perhaps the festering bubbles still rising from his defiled orifices.

Soul · Post by **Soul** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:06 am

Yeah, that's not something we really want to see...and yet look what we have before us (Sonic 2k6/Next, SotR)?

As far as the topic at hand goes, I gotta agree with everyone else that stated that Nintendo would water down Sonic's image if the licence was given to them. Sure, we'd probably get a 3D and 2D platformer that would outshine every other platformer that Sega has ever created, but at the same time, the Sonic we know would completely be another hedgehog. Dare I say it, Nintendo would probably crank up the shipping level more than the fanboys/fangirls would on a daily romp through DeviantArt. *shivers*

If anything, hand the blue fuzzball over to Tecmo/Team Ninja and witness holy hell break loose. Ninja Gaiden's design and level of platforming would be the foundation of Sonic's next title, and from there, you could imagine what would happen: puzzles that are actually challenging, rarely a bottomless pit to be seen, enemies that are as smart & vindictive as you can be, and bosses that'll keep you up all night and swearing all sorts of obsenites at your TV as you get killed by him/her/it for the 347th time in a row. It would be the hardest platformer for the Sonic franchise, but it wouldn't be for nothing.

The only thing we would have to worry about Tecmo screwing over...would be the female characters. I'm sorry, but after what they did to DOAX2, I say they should stay far, far, FAR away from modifying the likes of Amy, Rouge, Tikal, Blaze, or anyone that has the potiental to have a rack with the base to match. *pauses* Okay, so Rouge would be a given, but damnit leave the jiggling to Kasumi.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:28 am

Since when did everyone here actually believe in the American hype about Sonic being a "Dude with a tude" snowboarding down a mountain while drinking beer, fighting ninjas, and flipping off Mario?

MiraiTails · Post by **MiraiTails** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:18 pm

But Sonic did snowboard down a mountain! (Sonic 3) Granted, there was no beer involved...

Hasn't Sonic always had at least a bit of attitude, regardless of the territory?

(Another example: his foot tapping and glaring at the player.)

Even if you don't think that's true, it seems that the U.S. attitude has carried over somewhat into the 1999 and later "International" Sonic. (Take the stuff Dack mentioned as an example.)

Edit: For clarity and to get Dack's name right.

gr4yJ4Y · Post by **gr4yJ4Y** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:12 pm

Soul wrote:As far as the topic at hand goes, I gotta agree with everyone else that stated that Nintendo would water down Sonic's image if the licence was given to them. Sure, we'd probably get a 3D and 2D platformer that would outshine every other platformer that Sega has ever created, but at the same time, the Sonic we know would completely be another hedgehog.

I really do like to think the the Genesis games were competent, so I'm just going to act like you didn't say that last sentence and ment the games released in 1998 and after.

Soul wrote: If anything, hand the blue fuzzball over to Tecmo/Team Ninja and witness holy hell break loose.

I think that would be pretty interesting, but Team Ninja seems set on making games with realistic characters, ninjas, girls, and not fast platforming.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:48 pm

Whi do I have the feeling that people who are saying Nintendo would "water down" Sonic are only reminded of Mario, and forgeting that Nintendo also make/publish Zelda, Metroid, the Wario series, Fire Emblem, etc.?

Post by **Segaholic2** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:01 pm

Like Nintendo isn't guilty of the same with all those other series?

Hybrid · Post by **Hybrid** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:09 pm

I don't see how they've watered down Zelda or Metroid. Twilight Princess was disappointing because it didn't deliver anything new, not because it had been watered down, and the Prime series is an excellent 3D interpretation of the original Metroids. I don't think either of those series are losing their soul.

Its kind of annoying how people assume that in Nintendo's hands, Sonic's personality would die and all we'd be left with is an empty shell of the character we once knew. Nintendo are quite capable of doing several very different style of games: The happy-go-lucky style of Mario, the serious nature of Zelda/Metroid, the quick-witted humor of Paper Mario and the outright wacky with WarioWare. Why is it that no one has any faith in the company to successfully capture Sonic's personality without ruining it? Nintendo certainly aren't short of talent when it comes to keeping characters interesting, so I see no reason for anyone to so quickly dismiss them.

Arcade · Post by **Arcade** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:20 pm

The quality would be more or less like the Sonic games released for Nintendo consoles, only I think they would try harder, at least at first, to make the games good. But since Nintendo only releases games for their own machines, I think Sonic would lose a lot of the market.

I think Sega should keep owning Sonic, but license it, so other companies would make the games, comics, manga, Tv shows at that.

Opa-Opa · Post by **Opa-Opa** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:55 pm

Arcade wrote:I think Sega should keep owning Sonic, but license it, so other companies would make the games, comics, manga, Tv shows at that.

Wow. Now that's a new idea. What do you mean tv shows and comics?

About the Nintendo thing, yes, I don't think they would really water down the character as much as everyone here seems to think. Then again, I wouldn't be slightly frustrated if they changed Sonic's annoying "extreme" persona he's been developing over the later years.

Anyway, I'm gonna go crazy once again and say that Sonic should be handed over to SCEJ, mainly the Team ICO, because they seem to do everything so right.

Hm... checking my previous posts, mainly it's like this.

Sonic as a 3D platformer -> Ubisoft
Sonic as a 2D platformer -> The Behemoth
Sonic as an adventure game -> Team ICO

Arcade · Post by **Arcade** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:28 pm

Opa-Opa wrote:
Wow. Now that's a new idea. What do you mean tv shows and comics?

Television shows(Like Sonic X) and comic books (like Sonic the comic).

If Marvel and DC can license their characters, I don’t see why Sega can’t. The license for making Sonic games could last from three to five years, and it could have quality clause in the contract meaning that if the game doesn’t met some minimum standards, they cant release it.

The most recent Sonic games that don’t suck are Sonic Rush and Sonic and the secret Rings, and Sega only made one of those, with a engine they didnt even make. The license would give more creative control and more of the profit to the Non Sega company that makes the game.

Soul · Post by **Soul** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:52 pm

Whoops...I DID mean to say 1998 and after. Anything before that and...well, maybe Nintendo could make a steller platformer as good as the classics.

This is a big 'maybe' we're talking about here. Alright, now you could continue.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:48 pm

I think if I had to chose between a good game with a hypothetical "toned down"' Sonic and an awful game with an "edgy" Sonic, I would take the former, thank you very much.

Opa-Opa wrote:Anyway, I'm gonna go crazy once again and say that Sonic should be handed over to SCEJ, mainly the Team ICO, because they seem to do everything so right.

I like Team ICO and all, but I can't really see them tackling a Sonic game. Now Zelda on the other hand...

FlashTHD · Post by **FlashTHD** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:11 pm

Arcade wrote:
Opa-Opa wrote:
Wow. Now that's a new idea. What do you mean tv shows and comics?

Television shows(Like Sonic X) and comic books (like Sonic the comic).

If Marvel and DC can license their characters, I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t see why Sega canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t. The license for making Sonic games could last from three to five years, and it could have quality clause in the contract meaning that if the game doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t met some minimum standards, they cant release it.

The most recent Sonic games that donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t suck are Sonic Rush and Sonic and the secret Rings, and Sega only made one of those, with a engine they didnt even make. The license would give more creative control and more of the profit to the Non Sega company that makes the game.

But if they outsource the -entire- series to third parties like that, what does that say about Sega's creative integrity? That'd be outright confessing to having zero ability to make and release a decent product on their own terms. It's an "Abandon all hope, all ye who enter" scenario. They need to focus hard on getting their corporate situation out of the sewer before they ever consider crossing that last ditch point of no return.

DackAttac · Post by **DackAttac** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:00 am

Zeta wrote:Since when did everyone here actually believe in the American hype about Sonic being a "Dude with a tude" snowboarding down a mountain while drinking beer, fighting ninjas, and flipping off Mario?

I think you're confusing that with what they did with Shadow in the past few years. The Sonic I'm referring to in the WildFire cutscenes is the one that got irritated, shot you a dirty look and tapped his foot after 5 seconds of inactivity, rather than the SA2 epilogue/Heroes version that teams up with any social rivals and enemies without batting an eyelash because "teamwork is way past cool!" True, he was never the X-Treme 2 tha maX character he was made out to be right at the mid-90's commercial downfall, but it just plain doesn't work when they push him into Flanders territory like they frequently have since the jump to 3D. I'm praying to God they keep WildFire's director around.

Owen Axel · Post by **Owen Axel** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:05 am

FlashTHD wrote:That'd be outright confessing to having zero ability to make and release a decent product on their own terms.

Between Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic The Hedgehog 2006 and Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis, it'd be outright denial to say that confession hasn't already happened.

Regardless of crappy management and deadlines, the fact is that Sonic Team have next to zero credibility when it comes to delivering a finishing product with solid programming. Nintendo, and I mean this, couldn't possibly do worse. Sonic Team, on the other hand, have consistently proven of late that yes they can do worse, and after being proven wrong three times in a row, I'm inclined to believe them. Since the current creative team lack the capacity and the competence to do their job, put the series in the hands of ANYONE with a smidgeon of professional pride.

Better to face the worst-case scenario of a different development team than to be stuck with the more-than-likely scenario of the current group.

MiraiTails · Post by **MiraiTails** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:05 am

Not only that, but who exactly is left from the Genesis days, anyway? Isn't it more like "The Team We Pay to Make Sonic Games" rather than "Sonic Team" at this point?

Isuka · Post by **Isuka** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:25 am

Probably. But I still think the only utterly incompetent guys at the current Sonic Team are the programmers and testers, the other departments range from poor to decent (or even good).

gr4yJ4Y wrote:I still think that AV Games is about the only development team I'd trust the Sonic series to. But since they're still part of Sega, I'd have to say that the Jungle Beat/Mario Galaxy team would be next best in line. I think Jungle Beat proved they can make an interesting platform experience, with a creative twist. I'm sure they could work with Sonic's speed to make a similarly great game. Maybe they would make Sonic a 2D series on consoles again.

Totally forgot about this people, I thought of them as already dead (read, disbanded and gone their own respective ways). Might work, they've already demonstrated their versatility with almost every genre, I'd trust them.

Opa-Opa wrote:Hm... checking my previous posts, mainly it's like this.

Sonic as a 3D platformer -> Ubisoft
Sonic as a 2D platformer -> The Behemoth
Sonic as an adventure game -> Team ICO

... Wow, insane. I already commented on US, but Behemoth... OK, I liked Alien Hominid and all, but for that matter I'd rather give the franchise to Nazca Corp. since, well, they almost invented the "bullet-hell platformer" genre (or at least they're still alive, something that cannot be said of the Turrican or Contra/ Probotector teams). But, seriously, there isn't much platforming in those games; crazy stuff, yes, but just poor jumps. And with Team Ico... I'm not sure; way too much epic and dramatic for Sonic's style, but as always I'm judging all these people only for their most successful works, they can always pull out a fantastic take on others' ideas.

Other than that, I still can't stand the idea of Nintendo taking a grasp of the very same weapon SEGA carefully crafted to defeat them. Not even if that means good games.

Ngangbius · Post by **Ngangbius** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:49 am

^Dude, 1994 is over.

Sega lost.

Isuka · Post by **Isuka** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:16 am

*Cries hopelessly on his bed*

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