Spider-Man 3 friday

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cjmcray
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Post by cjmcray »

While I'm no fan of Sandman, I think the film would've been dramatically better if he were the sole villain, with the black suit playing off Spidey's want for revenge.

At the end of the film, Spidey gets rid of it, Venom debuts.

Then the next film should've been all about Venom.

Trying to squeeze in three villain stories, along with a love triangle was just too much.


And a LOT of pivotal scenes were cut from the film, for an "extended" DVD release (Peter was supposed to see Venom as his reflection in the mirror, there was a lot more stuff about Sandman's family, including Sandman attacking a doctor, trying to find a cure for his daughter, Sandman's daughter being in the final battle, and MJ's forgiveness speech)

The movie would've been a LOT better if these scenes were intact. I had a feeling watching the film a lot of stuff was cut, and only just recently got confirmation of this.

It felt as a whole, like an unfinished product.

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Senbei
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Post by Senbei »

Really? Seriously, the movie'd have been so much better with such scenes. That sucks. Now I feel gypped.

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Grant
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Post by Grant »

I finally saw it tonight. I liked it alright - certainly better than the first one, not nearly as much as the second. And I agree with most of you on the basic gripe: there's just too much going on and while it works okay for most of the film, it really doesn't hold up towards the end when everything comes together in an awkward way. The way they set up the final battle, as you guys pointed out, is just super clumsy and these characters and plot threads that don't belong together merge simply for the sake of it. But I definitely disagree with why that is so.

Venom is the weakest part of Spider-Man 3. Not necessarily the symbiote (emo Peter was very funny - that whole sequence I loved) or Eddie Brock (Topher is very watchable, he needs to hurry up and become a megastar already), just the actual villain of Venom. He sucks. He doesn't belong in this movie, his appearance is a complete afterthought and he only serves to distract you from the more interesting villains of Sandman and Harry.

It's so frustrating because it certainly feels like the creative forces behind this movie had their hands forced to include Venom. It makes me hate the internet! If it weren't for asshole fanboys on message boards (this is irony now), we wouldn't have to sit through such a stupid, stupid villain.

And don't listen to any of this nonsense of how Sandman was irrelevant. He was one of the best parts of the movie. His battles were so much cooler than anyone else's and the way they play him is almost as a tribute to old monster movies; this Sandman wouldn't be out of place among the Universal Monsters.

The best parts of Spider-Man 3, and I would say the best parts throughout the trilogy, are the smaller moments. I never walk away marveling at the big budget action sequences (maybe because they're all ugly CGI), but always the goofy parts: the Bruce Campbell appearances, emo Peter, the jazz dance sequence, flirting with Betty, the strut down the street, scenes at the Bugle, Peter's ridiculous scooter, all that stuff. In an alternative universe, it probably would've served the movies better to be moderately budgeted and have more of those types of scenes. I feel like that's why people like the Spidey movies better than other superheroes anyway; if you just wanted CGI battles you could see Fantastic Four.

But yeah. I liked it okay.

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cjmcray
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Post by cjmcray »

Grant wrote: It's so frustrating because it certainly feels like the creative forces behind this movie had their hands forced to include Venom. It makes me hate the internet! If it weren't for asshole fanboys on message boards (this is irony now), we wouldn't have to sit through such a stupid, stupid villain.
You can blame the producers on this one.

Raimi said in an interview that Venom was only in it becuase Avi Arad told him to put him in. Sam did have another love interest for Peter, but it wasn't Gwen Stacy, it was an original character (Ursula, perhaps?) Laura Ziskin told Sam to put Gwen in, and with Gwen in, Sam decided to put Capt. George Stacy in as well.

Also, Sony cut some more of the dramatic scenes out, becuase the movie was getting too long.

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Post by Esrever »

Honestly, I think the film was really quite good up to a point. There were a ton of storylines going on at once, it's true... but for awhile, it was juggling them them all together pretty deftly.

Right up until the scene at the church bell tower, I felt like I was watching a good movie. Sure, there were stupid little things here and there -- a few too many ridiculous coincidences, a few to over-the-top moments with "evil" Peter -- but they were easy to forgive because the story as a whole was being handled really well.

I loved Sandman. I loved Eddie Brock. I liked how "evil" Peter was handled overall, both the comedic and serious moments. I even liked the interpersonal subplots with Peter, Harry and MJ, even if they had to be facilitated by that old amnesia chestnut. There was a lot going on, but almost all of it was cool. I was enjoying myself. Things were clicking.

Unfortunately, pretty much everything after Peter gets rid of the symbiote was awful. Not "clunky," not "disjointed", not "busy"... horrible. Everything, from the story to the acting to the action to the editing just seems to take a massive, massive dive.

Nearly the entire cast becomes suddenly out of character, saying and doing inexplicable things just to set up the final action scene. Harry's turnaround might have been more plausible without Bernard, the ridiculous exposition butler. But Sandman teaming up with Venom made NO sense. It was totally inconsistent with his "I don't want to kill people" character in the rest of the film, and it made his confession at the end of the film feel all wrong.

Peter was even worse. Sure, he would have realized he shouldn't KILL Sandman... but LETTING HIM GO? He was a crook who stole tons of money and injured dozens of people! But because he was doing it to help his sick daughter, that means it's OK? What the hell kind of message is THAT? He should have made sure Sandman was arrested, given him a chance to repay his debt, maybe offer to help out his daughter. But... HE JUST LET HIM FLY OFF! It was so wrong I wanted to shout at the screen.

So yes, the story turns stupid. But so does the action! The big final battle is the worst action scene in the entire movie. Venom is a total chump, and Sandman, who was incredibly awesome in his two prior scenes, just turns into a giant, lumbering pile of uninspired goo. The only cool part was seeing Spider-man and Harry team up. Everything else was, dare I say it... BORING!

Meanwhile, the direction and editing takes a dive too. The movie becomes littered with all these horrible shots of extras cranking out bad high-school acting. The reporter narrating the entire final scene was excruciating, as was the kid who woodenly exclaimed "wicked cool!" It quite literally feels like you are watching a B-movie. How could Raimi have seen how these shots turned out and NOT cut them? What was he thinking?


It's really pretty astounding. I can't remember the last time I've seen a movie take such an abrupt dive in it's final third. They juggled all the different storylines expertly throughout most of the film, but obviously they had no idea how to tie them all together and wrap them up at the end. For two thirds of the film, you feel like the critics are wrong and the movie is on par with the previous films. Then it just tanks, and never recovers.

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Post by Senbei »

Grant wrote:And don't listen to any of this nonsense of how Sandman was irrelevant. He was one of the best parts of the movie.
Had he had more scenes like cjmcray suggested, I would agree with you. As it is, he's very cool until Spider-Man eliminates him the first time, then he becomes unecessary. Maybe if he'd had a dramatic and noble death halfway through the movie, I think it would have helped cleared up the ending.
Esrever wrote:They juggled all the different storylines expertly throughout most of the film, but obviously they had no idea how to tie them all together and wrap them up at the end. For two thirds of the film, you feel like the critics are wrong and the movie is on par with the previous films. Then it just tanks, and never recovers.
It reminds me a lot of Indigo Prophecy. The story is fantastic up until about the last fourth of the game, then it gets really, really terrible.

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cjmcray
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Post by cjmcray »

Here's some pictures from the deleted scenes.

Final battle with Sandman's family trying to stop him from killing Spidey.
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Peter seeing Venom as his reflection in the mirror

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Sandman attacking a doctor, while he tries to find a cure. (kinda hard to make out)
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Venom trying to kill Spidey
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Spidey saving a baby (this is not from Spider-Man 1 or 2, it was filmed June of last year)
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Venom was also supposed to say "I am.. Venom" at one point, too. kinda cheesy line, but at least his name would've been revealed.

Lastly, there was a scene filmed where Eddie had dinner at Gwen's house. (A picture of this can be seen in Premiere magazine)

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Post by Crazy Penguin »

Venom was also supposed to say "I am.. Venom" at one point, too. kinda cheesy line, but at least his name would've been revealed.
Not "We are Venom"?

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cjmcray
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Post by cjmcray »

Crazy Penguin wrote: Not "We are Venom"?
Correct. =\ Just 'I am Venom.'


There is also a Spider-Man 3 children's book out now, called 'I am Venom' which backs this up a bit.


Before the movie came out I had two different ideas of how Venom would've gotten his name in the film.


*Peter enters the Goblin's lair, 100% taken over by the suit*

*Harry is looking at a GG vial, when suddenly he hears a noise, and looks around the room*

Harry: Who's there?

*Harry is suddenly knocked down by an unseen figure. He sit up, and sees Peter in the back of the room.*

Harry: Pete? Is that you?

Peter: We.. are.. Venom.

*Peter tosses the bomb*


Would've been better than simply JJ naming him, or just suddenly going 'I'm Venom!'

Or, in the final battle scene..

*Peter has seemingly beaten Venom, as he is now weakened*

Venom: You need me.. We ARE.. Venom..


To which, Peter does some cheesy "No, i'm SPIDER-MAN!' line, symbolizing he doesn't need the black suit anymore, and defeats Venom.

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Post by G.Silver »

cjmcray wrote: Spidey saving a baby (this is not from Spider-Man 1 or 2, it was filmed June of last year)
Looks more like he's stealing that baby!

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Post by Shadow Hog »

G.Silver wrote:
cjmcray wrote: Spidey saving a baby (this is not from Spider-Man 1 or 2, it was filmed June of last year)
Looks more like he's stealing that baby!
Image
<b><i><u>WOAH</u></i></b>

Sorry, had to

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Post by Locit »

Apparently McGuire gets markedly fatter at random points during the movie. I can only assume this is because he gained weight during production and they filmed the movie out of sequence. See if you can spot the parts where Toby is "just a little bit chubbier!"

Also my roommate tells me there is a point where Spidey is on his way to the final battle and he lands in front of an American flag, where he stands for a few moments before bounding off to the fight. Did this strike anyone else as totally out of place? He (my roommate) would also like an explanation as to how Spiderman got his mask back when Venom took it off during the final battle. It sounds like there's no explanation for it whatsoever, which is sort of, well, stupid.

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Post by Esrever »

The flag thing was corny and out of place, but definitely no worse than the New Yorkers on the bridge in the original.

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Post by Light Speed »

Except the damn flag doesn't even look real.

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Post by Popcorn »

I haven't seen the movie yet and have nothing to add to this conversation. Instead, I demand an answer to a Spidey-related question that just occurred to me: what happened to Peter and Mary Jane's baby? I remember it being quite a big deal that MJ was pregnant around the time I stopped reading the comics.

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Post by Radrappy »

If I recall it was a stillbirth orchestrated secretly by Norman Osborn.

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Post by Esrever »

The baby was "poisoned" and taken away by someone working for the Goblin. It was pretty obvious DeFalco (the writer) was intending on bringing the baby back at some point, but then they fired him and the new writers dropped the idea.

Now DeFalco writes Spider-Girl, a comic in an alternate future where the baby IS returned and grows up to be a super hero herself.

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Post by Crazy Penguin »

I love Spider-Girl. Even own a couple pages of original art. It's one of the few remaining Marvel comics that still feels like a Marvel Comic.

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Post by cjmcray »

News: Spidey 3 made $375M worldwide, breaking every box office record.

Oh, and Sony has announced Spidey's 4, 5 and 6. I doubt Tobey or any of the original cast will return, due to all the bad reviews.

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Post by Opa-Opa »

I liked the movie a lot. Not as much as the second film, and maybe not as much as the first, I dunno. Something is just not right, I think I was getting tired of Peter's numbness around MJ's problems, it was like the characters never talked when we wouldn't see them.

And what the hell hapenned to Aunt May? I mean, I know it's her job to give that little granny piece of advice so Peter will get what's wrong with his whole life, but in this one she gives him, like, SIX granny advices before he ultimately gets rid of the costume, and that's all she does. And the only scenes she's at are with Peter. She never even talks to MJ or visits Harry at the hospital. In Spiderman 2 she beats the living crap out of Doc Ock for crying out loud.

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Post by Yami CJMErl »

cjmcray wrote:Peter seeing Venom as his reflection in the mirror

Image
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I lol'd. Seriously, this sequence made me laugh for some inexplicable reason.

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Post by WW »

It's his retarded face in the third pic. What a queef-tard.

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Post by Opa-Opa »

Somehow it reminded me of this:

Image

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Post by WW »

Woah, he's going completely mental, I must say.

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Post by Yami CJMErl »

OH man, I just realized that this sequence has such potential of being turned into an old meme. XD

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