Next gen realism killing the charm?

[Dasher]

International Academy of Design and Technology "IADT".

[DackAttac]

I was disappointed when I read the topic's content because I didn't think the discussion would be limited to Sonic. Sure, Sonic is a victim in this tide of realism. People buy their PS3's with their souped-up processors and expect glorious, beautiful realistic graphics. Honest to God, that's always a buzzword.

I personally am getting kind of tired of each time I see a game that's set in the real world with human models identical to GTA's. Really. We'll never duplicate the real world, but why does each unrelated game fall into the same trappings? In the way that each portrait of a person varies from artist to artist, why do all humans in game models look the same whether it's Tony Hawk or basketball or a FPS or whatever?

It doesn't even need to be a fantasy world, but I'm waiting for something else to arrest me graphically that I can just lose myself in.

But, I also like where the topic at hand is going, so I'll build on it.

Sonic games have fallen to this trend as of late, but I think Zeta makes a good point with the "generic" fantasy world comment I'm too lazy to dig up and quote directly. Let's face it, Sonic Team's been using magic, telekenesis, time travel, bio-metamorphasis, space/time warping and all other kinds of unworldly things interchangably and only loosely anchored by the "Chaos Emeralds", which I'm really getting sick of hearing about because I know a hackneyed supernatural plot device will flock to it like flies on a cow pie.

Sonic Heroes had a promising, (if not formulaic) start with those checkerboard hills, but the problem kicked right in with the rising ruins—unexplained—giant frogs that change the weather—unexplained and bizarre—and closed out with aliens on the horizon—pasted into previous events like a second-grader's collage.

It's almost as if Sonic's existance outside of the real world is treated as a free pass for any fantasy device imaginable. Tikal. Void. Lumina. Shadow. Silver. Erazor.

Going back to the 2D days, the worlds were never 'magic' or any such nonsense. They were simply either based off real world settings (Sandopolis), futuristic (Chemical Plant) or abstract (shit, take your pick). And brought into Sonic's streamlined brand of speed with springs, loops, and other fun architectural items. There were ghosts, and I'll allow them that, but it's really gotten excessive. In a world where the supernatural enters and exits as it sees fit in such a plethora of modes, you can't help but crave some reality.

I don't want picture-perfect realism, either, but dammit to hell, it would serve them so much better if they'd pick one kind of physical impossiblity and stuck to it. (Preferably conservatively.)

[gr4yJ4Y]

But returning to this topic's title, a system being next gen doesn't decide weather or not it's realistic or cartoony. It's ultimately up to the artists to decide what direction to take the game.

Yeah, Sonic's plot lines are all over the place. Back when Sonic Adventure came out I remember discussions about what would be the future of Station Square and how and when Angel Island floated and fell. For one game at least the plot was somewhat consistent and interesting.

If there was a way to explain how every power the chaos emeralds bring, it would be nice and bring back some kind of consistency to the plot.

[Light Speed]

I was disappointed when I read the topic's content because I didn't think the discussion would be limited to Sonic. Sure, Sonic is a victim in this tide of realism. People buy their PS3's with their souped-up processors and expect glorious, beautiful realistic graphics. Honest to God, that's always a buzzword.

I personally am getting kind of tired of each time I see a game that's set in the real world with human models identical to GTA's. Really. We'll never duplicate the real world, but why does each unrelated game fall into the same trappings? In the way that each portrait of a person varies from artist to artist, why do all humans in game models look the same whether it's Tony Hawk or basketball or a FPS or whatever?

It doesn't even need to be a fantasy world, but I'm waiting for something else to arrest me graphically that I can just lose myself in.

I dunno, a lot of games this gen have done better character models. A lot haven't, such as Rainbow Six Vegas and what not, but Gears of War has some great character models, in multiplayer too. You can totally lose yourself in Oblivion as well. I spent tons of time just wandering around, I'd climb to the top of a mountain or something then look down on a valley as the sun was setting and thought it almost looked better than the real world. I also played all these games on a 50 inch HDTV, that might matter. One that I no longer have, god damn roommates.

[BlazeHedgehog]

It's kind of a no-brainer to say that "making Sonic realistic is dumb", if you ask me.

But I'm under the impression very few Sonicteamers even care anymore. As long as it sells good enough, they'll make a Sonic RTS if they have to.

[ChaosAngelZero]

Maybe "magical shit" is a necessary plot element to convey those fractured storylines? Because, since Sonic Adventure, most of the main (home consoles, that is) games are just like movies, whereas the old 2D ones were more like simply stories derived from the games' progress themselves, not an orchestrated plot (I feel like there was still something of this in SA, don't know in SA2).

I insist, I would go with a mute adaption of the first games, in a "ICO" or "Shadow of the Colossus" style.

And yes, the buzzword was always there.

[gr4yJ4Y]

It's kind of a no-brainer to say that "making Sonic realistic is dumb", if you ask me.

But I'm under the impression very few Sonicteamers even care anymore. As long as it sells good enough, they'll make a Sonic RTS if they have to.

I smell a blockbuster!

[EmeraldGuardian]

I can kinda see what Iizuka's trying to show off, and he's really not doing it the right way. Sonic should be returned to his original background and Iizuka needs to stop with this crap of adding MORE and REALISTIC enviroments.

Instead, he ought to create his own original series of whatever to test his ideas. That way he has a clean slate to experiment, possibly make something good, without ruining what we already cherish. I wouldn't even mind him continuing the Sonic series as long as he doesn't keep trying out these shit ideas with every game that comes out.

[DackAttac]

Maybe "magical shit" is a necessary plot element to convey those fractured storylines?

It only has been since Tikal and Chaos. Ever since, they've had this overwhelming desire to one-up themselves each time. But necessary? They've already accepted a character who can build innately complicated mechanical things in a limited time frame. When you have that, magic is just a crutch for being "epic".

[G.Silver]

As long as it sells good enough, they'll make a Sonic RTS if they have to.

I actually thought a Mario RTS would be an interesting thing.

[Shadow Hog]

I have to ask how that would work, exactly.

[Dasher]

I can kinda see what Iizuka's trying to show off, and he's really not doing it the right way. Sonic should be returned to his original background and Iizuka needs to stop with this crap of adding MORE and REALISTIC enviroments.

Instead, he ought to create his own original series of whatever to test his ideas. That way he has a clean slate to experiment, possibly make something good, without ruining what we already cherish. I wouldn't even mind him continuing the Sonic series as long as he doesn't keep trying out these shit ideas with every game that comes out.

Sonic's world is simple, its just a mixture of the real world with futuristic elements and complex patterns, plants and other stuff. The level shown in Sonic Rush Adventure has no realism or complex patterns, it looks like a Mario level minus the background. I liked how in the past, levels had all these original patterns that you said wow! thats awesome looking. But now its either too simple looking or too realistic. The First Sonic Rush almost got it right! thats why its praised by so many, but the second one scares me...I dont like the level design, again...it looks too simple and Marioish.

Yes, I started this topic talking about Realism, Maybe Im bullshiting too much, but the point is Sonic games need a balance, So Far Rush has somewhat delivered this balance.

But like someone said, SonicTeam sometimes designs crappy looking levels and good looking levels within the same game, like Sadv3's crappy looking Toy Kingdom vs the awesome looking Chaos Angel , so here's hoping thats the case.

[WW]

You're always bullshitting.

[ChaosAngelZero]

Yeah, the surrealistic patterns, along with oversized things like tubes and rotating logs, spiraled bridges, walls, traps and well hidden passages were the shit. Also most of the paths encountered, so you could change from one to the other on the fly and then you could decide where it was most convenient to procede through.

Almost all of it has been lost in the 3D transition. There must be a way to put it back in, I think.

[G.Silver]

I have to ask how that would work, exactly.

Basically Mushroom Kingdom vs Koopa Clan. On the Bowser side, you've got a lot more units to choose from but they have a lot of fixed purposes, and they build fast but generally have lower technology, they're your more swarming zerg-like team (Goomba rush early on for the win!). On the Mushroom Kingdom you don't have as many different units probably but you start out with Mario and Luigi from the get-go and Mushroom Retainers are more versatile as both fighters and builders, and you can maybe get a few other types, ride around on Yoshi and stuff. They'd be more upgrade-centric like that, with fireflowers and stuff. Another huge advantage is that one koopa shell can take out several units if they are standing in a line! It's not necessarily a well-balanced game!

[Zeta]

And you could always toss in the Wart Army or the Beanbean Kingdom too. : p

World of Mariocraft!

Anyways, I think Pikmin WAS supposed to be Mario RTS, though.

[Rob-Bert]

If that's the category Pikmin falls into, then yeah, Miyamoto said that it was one of the gameplay types they were experimenting with for Mario and it eventually became Pikmin. The other gameplay idea became SMG.