Sonic the Hedgehog 360 defecation station

[Owen Axel]

The game is piece of crap to beginners, but once you get the hang of it, I've gotta say it's tons of fun.

You know the Genesis games, the ones that everyone here loves? You know how the basics of playing the game involved holding down the right directional button on the D pad and occasionally hitting either a, b, or c, depending on your preference? Yeah, it shouldn't be any more complicated than that. It's a <i>Sonic</i> game.

Don't get me wrong. That the game becomes managable and fun once you finally learn to compensate for the slip-shod controlls is a redreemable factor, but it's nowhere near good enough to make up for Sonic Team's implementing of that horrible control scheme in the first place.


(By the way I'm surprised the lovable scathing and surly attitudes at this forum still haven't succeeded in preventing SegaSonic from regularly making dumb comments. "would've liked it more if Ryan Drummond was in it", indeed. Bah! As if the previous voice cast were any less mediocre.)

[Locit]

SegaSonic's commentary has become something akin to white noise here: constant, and annoying if you pay attention to it.

[Shadow Hog]

It'd probably end the way they killed that guy in the WoW South Park episode.

...with Randy Marsh giving the main characters some incredible sword straight from the team of Blizzard (though at the cost of his character's life), which is promptly used against a griefer, who is subsequently slammed into the ground and has his head pancaked by a giant hammer?

[SegaSonic]

You honestly think that changing voice actors would have helped this game in the slightest?

Yes, yes it would...for me it would, for people with a stone heart it wont.

No he wasn't.

Play Sonic 2 with a friend in Chemical plant zone and see what happens.

SegaSonic's commentary has become something akin to white noise here: constant, and annoying if you pay attention to it.

I just pay attention to details, you dont.

I repeat myself because to me that is the biggest disgrace to the Sonic games so far.

When I play a game I care about the characters not the mechanics.

while most of the people only care about a dumb camera that in my lifetime Ive never had problems with in any game, EVER. You guys are just game tester, designer and gameplay material.

Im story, character design and Music material.

[Double-S-]

No, you're just kinda dumb.

[SegaSonic]

Perhaps, but atleast Im human.

[MegaKitsune]

It'd probably end the way they killed that guy in the WoW South Park episode.

...with Randy Marsh giving the main characters some incredible sword straight from the team of Blizzard (though at the cost of his character's life), which is promptly used against a griefer, who is subsequently slammed into the ground and has his head pancaked by a giant hammer?

Well, just the hammer thing is what I had in mind...

[BlazeHedgehog]

Sonicteam's main problem is they think they can still knock a Sonic game out in roughly 12 months and have it be this amazing piece of work.

Sonicteam had a runtime and game assets back in E3 2005 in June. They had a lot longer than 12 months to produce the game. Even if they pulled that tech demo out of their arses the day before E305, they would still have had 18 months to work on the final product.

A) The "assets" you speak of weren't planned on actually being a part of any game specifically. That was just a tech demo. A "Behind closed doors, not-for-public-consumption" tech demo, at that. Technically we weren't even supposed to know that demo even existed.

B) The game was formally announced on September 9th, 2005. From what I recall from the leaked game script, prior to it's announcement, the actual game had only been in physical development for what? A week? two? When it turned up at TGS 2005, I recall several journalists being somewhat baffled as to why Sega chose to actually show it in it's "playable" state as it was obviously extremely early in development.

C) Once a game is accepted and goes Gold for production, at least two weeks or more are taken out to produce the actual physical discs they will sell in stores.

Thus, we can assume the game was finished in late October. If it was started at the end of August/early September, that's roughly 13 months. Maybe 14 if you're pushing it.

[WW]

Perhaps, but atleast Im human.

Let us not get carried away here.

[SegaSonic]

Yeah but why am I the one quoted there? anyway, changing the theme.

The music is it any good? and is Sweet Sweet Sweet the last stories song?

Also read what Elson 'Darkspeeds' Wong of TSS wrote.

eh, food for thought.

Hi guys! It's been a year since I posted on SSMB! smile.gif I hope you will bear with me on the first part because I couldn't get this notion off my chest about how majority of the global Sonic fan community as well as the community right here at TSS in the past week perceive the latest Sonic The Hedgehog installment as a failure.

I can see a lot of complaints about the game whether it be the voice acting, camera controls, complex storyline, absolutely mind-boggling plot holes that will leave your brain to rot thinking about it too much, pitfall deaths that will have your head banging on the wall for the 50th time and many more... The list of complaints goes on and on and on...

I see this negative perception and heavy criticism as something unnecessary and totally out of the true spirit of being a Sonic fan. Sure it's good to have a balanced perspective; sure it's reality (heck we don't live in a perfect world no? ^^) but seriously I personally see this negativity and criticism as extreme. It seems as if the best thing people can do here is complain.

Anyway I'm going to end my thoughts there about my general perceptions on the Sonic Community here at TSS regarding the release of Sonic Next Gen and move on to the real discussion. ^^

I want to inject some positivity into the community by starting with an applause to Sonic Team/SEGA and all of those involved in making Sonic Next Gen possible (this goes for internal and external operations such as the programmers, the music composers, the cinematic crew, public relations and marketing etc...)

*claps to them*

I can appreciate that Sonic Team's attempts to fix past problems regarding game play hasn't been their strength for this occasion however I must say it is at least an effort.


So what's this secret message I've stated as my title for this article/discussion?


Well it is important to know a few facts about me first (to have idea of where I'm coming from)before I go and express my topic to my hearts content:

* I'm a Sonic fan at heart and I apply the values and teachings I've learnt from the games to the best of my ability in real life. You can see this easily from the artwork, animations, music and other contributions I've made to the Sonic online community and DA/Sonic Community.

* What I see for in Sonic games and (computer games in general) is the 'STORY' & 'CHARACTERS' elements that create a value system into the general well being or mind state of an individual. This is what interests me most when I play computer games because these value benefit me greatly in real life. What's even better is with these value systems created I get the best of these values and teach/share these with the community.

For instance if the concept of 'friendship' is strongly expressed on an episode of Sonic The Hedgehog I can pass this knowledge in the form of a comic (please see 'Some Vacation' for reference which can be located here Some Vacation Page11

* I haven't played the game yet but I have analysed ALL (or MOST) of the INTRO/ENDING SEQUENCES & IMPORTANT CUTSCENES to Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 (via YouTube). With that said I currently have not experienced the game play yet and I state this because it may enhance my experience and appreciate for the final product (i.e. the game itself).

* Just a reminder this discussion is based strictly on the appreciation of the STORY elements and not on GAMEPLAY. Gameplay can be separated into another area of discussion, game play is not what I'm looking for here folks...

Okay now that you got a jist of where I'm coming from I ask you the question of whether you are a 'dedicated fan' of the Sonic series...?

My definition of 'dedicated fan' is one who will (with some degree of maturity) accept change from the company's work? It is also someone who just accepts that what they do is good in general and that the slightest flaws will not make you go nuts and created hundreds of reasons why their latest game sucked. A dedicated fan also spreads the good news to their fellow friends, colleagues (and possibly family members) about the success of the game. In context to Sonic the Hedgehog community I reckon a dedicated fan will not go too critical about the game play or what the next crazy idea is for a plot to the storyline... (I hear so many complaints about how the addition of new characters only makes the franchise worse and also the addition of complex storylines that are just not something to be pleased about etc etc...) Or even how the game is not getting back to its roots... (This can be seen in a lot of reviews made by the official game review sites such as IGN, Gamespot where a lot of negative criticism lie in the poor translation the 'oldschool' elements of a simplistic story concept and characters...)


Okay if you are dedicated and you have finished playing the ENTIRE game and you know what the resolution is what can you see in the final ending...?


IPB Image


Can you decode the secret message that Sonic Team's trying to express to the millions of fans from around the world?


Can you see how the ending is a true reflection of Sonic Team's formula of 'this Next Gen game will go back to it's roots...'


Well let's analyse and share some of the ideas I have in mind:

* What I believe Sonic Team is trying to say in the ending is that the whole story concept was a core reflection or tribute to 'Sonic Episode 01'

* What's this Sonic Episode 01' you say Darkspeeds...? Well my friend if you are dedicated enough you would know that this is a concept explained within your Sonic 10th Anniversary booklet... = ) It says:

"There are three Sonic episodes, which were talked about since the initial stage of it's development, evolving in three different worlds. One of them, the fairy tale version is introduced below

Mary Grannet is a well-known fairy tale writer during the 20th century, buy only few people know that her husband was a pilot at the AirForce.

Her husband's hair was always sharpened up straight because of his helmet. So Mary said to him teasingly, "Your hair looks just like a hedeghog."

There was a daughter between them named Sherry. But most of the time her father was flying in the air, so she had very few chances to meet with her father. Not to make her daughter feel lonely, Mary used to let Sherry hear a fairy tale. A fairy tale, which is about "Sonic: the hedgehog who runs faster than sound".

As time goes by, the world of this fairy tale has spread rapidly. An adventure at the world of wonder, a mystic jungle, a stormy ocean, an ancient city, the lost continent... SONIC's activity pushed forward. Whenever SONIC finds the bad guy, he immediately appears by his boastful speed to help people. Story of the hedgehog, who has a mind of justice, wisdom and courage, has eased up her loneliness very well.

Sherry was especially pleased about the story of love between SONIC and his girlfriend, because her mother seems to be very young and beautiful when her story comes to the point.

Later on, Sherry will realise that her mother's fairy tale was a true story.

* Now that you've read all of that, please take a minute or two to think about what you digested. Think about the game your played and try to apply this original concept with your experience learning the STORY & CHARACTERS of Sonic Next Gen.

Do you see the ressemblences? wink.gif

* The ideology of loneliness in Sherry can be reflected on Princess Elise and how she much needed to set her soul free... Sonic did just that when he made her cry releasing the Flames of Disaster... In the end it was for a good cause because the good guys knew confidently that they can win the fight. Sherry is not alone anymore because of this confidence.

* Mary's story about Sonic and his girlfriend doesn't need much proof that this is a connection to Sonic and Elise no? ^_~

* "Whenever SONIC finds the bad guy, he immediately appears by his boastful speed to help people. Story of the hedgehog, who has a mind of justice, wisdom and courage, has eased up her loneliness very well."

I love this part... This is very poetic and meaningful and one that explains why so many million fans love Sonic as a character. Sonic is truly a hero in our hearts.

* "An adventure at the world of wonder, a mystic jungle, a stormy ocean, an ancient city, the lost continent..."

You wonder where Sonic Team get's it's inspiration from when they created levels for the games. In the case of Sonic Next Gen and how they want to pay tribute to 'Sonic Episode 01' they included a mystic jungle (Tropical Jungle - The Jungle & Tropical Jungle - The Swamp), an ancient city (Kingdom Valley and Crisis City), and of course the lost continent (The End of The World). Stormy Ocean also applies to The End of The World when you play as Tails no? ^_~

* This is not mentioned on the booklet however it is something that I come across at from past accumulation of knowledge and experience about the concept of Sonic by the Japanese.

They like to say how he is 'like the wind' (again Japanese poetic justice in action). Sonic is the wind. Wherever he goes will be a new adventure. The wind moves fast and sometimes violently. Sonic is fast and is strong enough to defeat the toughest of foes.

If you see the ending footage again you can see so many things that you can pick up that is connected to Sonic Team's purpose of creating the new 15th Anniversary game as being a tribute to the roots of the past.

Last Story Ending P2 (X360) by XanderChaos

You notice that even the sound he makes when he speed dashes through the crowd and past Elise... You can hear the sound of a roaring jet... What does roaring jet remind you of...?

"Mary Grannet is a well-known fairy tale writer during the 20th century, buy only few people know that her husband was a pilot at the AirForce."

Call me crazy but that's how I see it when I'm deep and respectful of the series.

Anyway I hope you've enjoyed that analysis. I know it was very long and rather complex but this was written for the dedicated fans out there who wanted to know more and who wanted to respect the series for its true integrity and abundance of values that can be learnt and taught to friends, family and the community.


To end off my discussion I'd like to say that the story of Sonic Next Gen is a success and not a failure. It is tailored to those dedicated fans who have been following Sonic since their childhood days and are able to just accept that this is 'a new Sonic game' (as Dreadknux has cleverly stated in his article entitled '"The Spin": 8 Out of 10 Prats).

I believe that the voice actors were most convincing and well performed (the 4KIDS cast are good people, please give them credit for they are just as human as you are trying their best to perform and entertain for dedicated fans like us, you have no idea how frustrated I am at how the general Sonic fan community is VERY critical about the voice acting... *shooks head* It's a game and you know what? Svend made a very good point about how Sonic can do without a voice - his action shows and truly dictates the character in him, for instance the part when Sonic tapped his foot on one of Dr. Eggman's robots in the intro... Classic. In addition to this point an excellent portration of how Sonic used raw expression to tell us what he thinks is one that can be seen in the final ending - throughout the ending his speed, smile and benevolent expression tells all) BTW if you want to know I'm supportive of both the original cast AND 4KIDS cast. If you want proof of my loyalty to the original cast Ryan Drummond is one who I believe IS Sonic (heck even the when I do my voices for Sonic in my animation/animatics projects I try my best to imitate his voice... He's a natural). But then again this doesn't mean Jason sucks either... He's done a great job overall, especially the laugh in Sonic's ending.

I believe that Sonic Team has delivered in the FMV/CG cut scene department; not only because of the quality animation and cinematic but also the directing was exceptionally well composed.

So yeah to sum up once again I believe that Sonic Team/SEGA did a fantastic job and that we should all look forward to their future installments. If you want to complain all day about how crap they are why not save time, energy and frustration by not being a part of it? Cuz if you are one of those people then I can safely say that you're not even a fan of the series or one who appreciates it.

Cheers for reading! Take care and please continue to keep up the wonderful efforts in supporting the makers of the Sonic the Hedgehog concept and the loving community who appreciate and respects those concepts. *thumbs up*

[j-man]

Stop.

[Hybrid]

I see this negative perception and heavy criticism as something unnecessary and totally out of the true spirit of being a Sonic fan.

People who think that liking a game franchise is all about blindly ignoring every single fault and picking out scraps of enjoyment wherever they can be found are total morons.

I skimmed through it and I just can't take any of that shit seriously. He "analysed" the cutscenes? On Youtube? What a joke.

All I get out of this is that he liked the story and thought the characters were cool. I'm guessing he's the type of person who thought ShTH's story was a deep, dark and involving variation from the norm.

[Ngangbius]

Also read what Elson 'Darkspeeds' Wong of TSS wrote.

...yeah, I stop reading there.

Geez, Sega! Stop catering to these idiot, defensive blind fanchildren who has shit taste in games and make a good game that attempt to appeal to everyone.

[Hybrid]

I actually went to the TSS to look at that article he referenced. The basic gist is that we shouldn't compare this to any of the good games in the series because it isn't 1994 anymore and this wasn't meant to me a "modernised" version of those games. Then he goes on to say that anyone who doesn't like the new levels is a fanboy. Then I stopped reading.

The stupidity of this article is increased tenfold when you realise that this is a TSS staff member writing this shit and not just your random, run of the mill fanboy. However I'm guessing the stupidity of most of the Sonic fandom has been discussed here before, so I digress.

[Rlan]

The Gametrailers review is all you should need.

[SegaSonic]

The Gametrailers review is all you should need.

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?fs=1&id=2146

Oh Shoot, youre right...this movie review made me understand what was wrong with the new game by showing me lots of examples.

Wow.... the controls really seem jerky now that Ive seen this video, theres no flow or grip like there was in SA1 and 2, its like youre running on ice.

I really hope Sonic Team is paying attention to all of this and fixes all these glitches.

Meanwhile the whole story, levels and music seem interesting, to me atleast.

Poor Sonic, they really rushed it this time...I guess they had many Ideas that went down the toilet too, thus wasting time there and rushing the game here.

[MegaKitsune]

You know....all this deep analyzation of the Sonic games, and then arguing over it comes down to one undeniable fact:

EVERYONE WHO HAS POSTED IN THIS TOPIC HAS NO LIFE.


Seriously, step out of your mindset for one second and look. Half of the board is bitching about the canon. The other half is bitching about the shitty gameplay.

All fail to realize there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. Sega shat it out and sent it out the door.

So why are we ripping each others throats out over the fact that two characters in a video game make out? Why is everybody trying to be the ultimate authority on Sonic? I'm guilty as everyone else, but you know what!? Fuck it, I'm leaving this topic. It's a goddamn video game people, not the Da Vinci Code! If you think it's a shitty game forget about it and stop bitching to a development company who really doesn't care about you (otherwise it'd be good in the first place), if you think it's a good game play it and stop trying to make a religion around Sonic. We have enough psycho religions as it is.

[James McGeachie]

Can you just shut the fuck up? Seriously, people can talk about whatever they want.

It's amazing you've actually got the guts to shout out shit like this considering what everyone on this board could be ripping you apart for, but have abstained from doing so. If you don't want to read or post in this topic, I guess you can just, you know, not click on it?

[SegaSonic]

Dude relax, we are just talking about the game.

Its not our problem you see our discussions as throat ripping quarrels.

Internets.

[Light Speed]

It's a goddamn video game people, not the Da Vinci Code!

Heh, that made me laugh.

[j-man]

I love it when people are like "I'M LEAVING THIS THREAD". As if anyone would've noticed in a couple pages time that they hadn't posted and actually wonder where they got to. It's like when people go out of their way to tell you that they're going to the toilet.

[Omni Hunter]

I'm going to have a nice steaming shit... ^^

Seriously though, it's the first Sonic game ever where I've seen the trailer and I couldn't even give a crap. I'm not saying it's a shit game, I'm just saying that I'm unimpressed and will probably not play it anyway.
My major gripe is that this game was being treated at the epitome of Sonic for the new generation, but it fail'd .

[Zeta]

It's a goddamn video game people, not the Da Vinci Code!

Ironically, I think the plot of Sonic 360 is much better written than the Da Vinci Code. Hell, everything about it is better. The Da Vinci Code is Hardy Boys for grownups with Jesus thrown in to make it controversial enough for people to read and feel like they're being "daring" by even considering Jesus may have done the horizontal mambo. Heavens forfend the heterosexuality of our Lord be confirmed!

When I play a game I care about the characters not the mechanics.

Hahahah. Perhaps you should be READING instead of playing videogames, then? Because character development is not the focus of videogames.

Im story, character design and Music material.

So really, you just want a Sonic cartoon and you force yourself to play through shitty gameplay to see such? Good plan.

Seriously, step out of your mindset for one second and look. Half of the board is bitching about the canon. The other half is bitching about the shitty gameplay.

All fail to realize there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. Sega shat it out and sent it out the door.

Congrats. You're bitching about how its wrong to bitch. I think that puts you in some sort of special category that requires you to live in a room with no sharp objects.

[Delphine]

MegaKitsune, if you don't like it here you can leave. You're well on your way to earning a kick out the door as it is.

[(...)]

A) The "assets" you speak of weren't planned on actually being a part of any game specifically. That was just a tech demo. A "Behind closed doors, not-for-public-consumption" tech demo, at that. Technically we weren't even supposed to know that demo even existed.

Regardless of whether anyone was supposed to see the tech demo or even know of its existence, it still existed. They still had all that stuff, and they would not have just thrown it away after the demo was done. If they could do an in-game tech demo, then that means they had at least the following back in June 05:

- Sonic
- The Mechs
- The Egg Carrier
- A fair portion of Kingdom Valley (without gameplay)
- A lot of the audio effects
- A working 360/PS3 graphics engine capable of motion blur, real time shadows, a decent frame-rate at 720p etc
- Some kind of production pipeline for actually getting this stuff into said graphics engine

Even if they never had a single level designed back then, they had A LOT of stuff to start with (more than most games do at that stage).

B) The game was formally announced on September 9th, 2005. From what I recall from the leaked game script, prior to it's announcement, the actual game had only been in physical development for what? A week? two?

Physical production is just a small part of the process. The bulk of a game's development is spent designing the game etc.

When it turned up at TGS 2005, I recall several journalists being somewhat baffled as to why Sega chose to actually show it in it's "playable" state as it was obviously extremely early in development.

The final product looks extremely early in development.

C) Once a game is accepted and goes Gold for production, at least two weeks or more are taken out to produce the actual physical discs they will sell in stores.

It's usually a good deal longer than two weeks, but fair point.