What is an Xbox 360? A newer way to play SotN, that's what

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:43 pm

But enough talk, have at you.

Sounds pretty cool, actually, since XBLA's been providing some of the most fun I've had lately. Granted, this will likely dwarf everything else on there, but never mind that.

The bad news is that they're apparently not adding any of the features from the Saturn version. While, like I said, that's bad, it's not too bad, though, since most of the additions were kinda sorta "meh" anyway. It does mean you miss out on some of the best renditions of "Bloody Tears" ever, but that's what MP3s are for... Just put it on your computer, let it stream to your 360, and boom, almost as good.

CE · Post by CE » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:27 am

Daaamn. Almost makes me wish I had an Xbox360. Then I look at what's getting released for it and I remember

SotN has been one of the longest running games on my must play list (other games on the list are Radiant Silvergun, Panzer Dragoon RPG, and Dragon Force. hmm... all Sega Saturn games...), but the high price has always pushed me back. One of my coworkers has PDRPG and Dragon Force in storage, but is too lazy to get them into an actual game system.

Shadow Hog · Post by **Shadow Hog** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:28 pm

Panzer Dragoon RPG

Panzer Dragoon Saga. Unless you want the Japanese version Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG...

Admittedly, though, I've been looking over Saturn games, too. Just got Worms for under $20 offa eBay, recently, and while I can't say I'm going to buy more right now, I certainly would like quite a bit for that system.

Actually, I'd also kinda like a modchip for a Model 2 US Saturn, so I can start importing (since a lot of the better Saturn titles are imports). Not the Action Replay; I understand how wonderful it is and all, but I want to use my official memory cartridge and not some third-party thing. Anyway, anyone know of any good places to do that?

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:47 pm

Almost makes me wish I had an Xbox360. Then I look at what's getting released for it and I remember

No shit. Granted, the first year is always slow, but even the PS2 had Klonoa by now. The single 360 game that has invoked any feelings in me other than disgust or sheer apathy is Blue Dragon, which looks really nice except that it's left in the historically incapable hands of Ohshima and his misfit crew. I would love to think it'll turn out as awesome as it looks, but that's what I wanted to think about Blinx. Maybe Sakaguchi will keep them in line. Maybe.

I am particularly disappointed by DoAX 2. It's even more indistinguishable from the Xbox original than DoA 3 and 4. The jiggle is vastly improved, and granted, that is an important point - critical, even - but that had to be done just to keep up with Namco who have cornered the market on cascading bosoms with the last couple of Soul Calibur games.

There is at least a version of Lumines you can download, isn't there? Is it any good?

Post by **Popcorn** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:52 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:
Almost makes me wish I had an Xbox360. Then I look at what's getting released for it and I remember
No shit. Granted, the first year is always slow, but even the PS2 had Klonoa by now. The single 360 game that has invoked any feelings in me other than disgust or sheer apathy is Blue Dragon, which looks really nice except that it's left in the historically incapable hands of Ohshima and his misfit crew. I would love to think it'll turn out as awesome as it looks, but that's what I wanted to think about Blinx. Maybe Sakaguchi will keep them in line. Maybe.

I have real hope for Blue Dragon, because supposedly Sakaguchi and his gang are doing the design work, leaving Artoon just with the programming schtick. That's the whole concept behind Mistwalker, I believe-- Sakaguchi designs and then outsources the actual meat and bones of development to third-party companies. I have real hope for Mistwalker's other projects, too, although they're not much more than concept art at this stage. Really fucking gorgeous concept art, though.

As for the Xbox 360, well... I've had more than one opportunity to pick one up at a significantly diminished price at work, and every time I've failed to secure the necessary motivation for it. Microsoft wants me to want the 360, I want me to want the 360-- why don't I have a 360? This'll make me Mr Unpopular all over again, of course, but I guess I'm still waiting for Halo 3.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:00 pm

What was Sakaguchi's last FF game? It was 9, wasn't it? And wasn't his involvement really minimal by that point?

Post by **Popcorn** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:31 pm

I've no idea, I hate FF on account of it totally sucking. (Actually, FF9 is the only one I've at all enjoyed.) I think the last thing he was really involved with, Final Fantasy-wise, was The Spirits Within movie.

Then I guess they fired him.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:36 pm

He was demoted from his executive position. The heavy financial losses from the movie are what prompted Square's merge with Enix, and Sakaguchi resigned shortly after.

However, he has been credited in almost every major Square production up to and including Kingdom Hearts 2.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:07 pm

I don't think Lumines is out yet, and I am pretty sure that Symphony of the Night isn't going to be out until next year.

You guys are all too freaking picky about your games. I'll admit that the 360 doesn't have a ton of good games, but GRAW, Oblivion, and Call of Duty 2 were all pretty good, although also available on the PC. Chromehounds is cool, but aside from having a incredibly in-depth build a mech mode it gets kinda old. Kameo wasn't the greatest platformer of all time, but it proved to be an entertaining game. The two games I'm most looking forward too right now are Ninety Nine Nights and Dead Rising. There may not be anything truly mind blowing, but I think most of you wouldn't still turn it away anyway, ya jaded bastards. You do realize games were meant to be enjoyed and not picked apart?

Post by **Popcorn** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:16 pm

Light Speed wrote: You do realize games were meant to be enjoyed and not picked apart?

We pick 'em apart in order to find out why we enjoy them. (Or not, as the case may frequently be.)

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:02 pm

Yeah, that was a poorly worded sentence. What I am trying to say is that I don't think you guys would enjoy a good game anymore because your standards are so ridiculously high. Several games I enjoy are totally shunned here, and why? GRAW is a perfectly good game, it doesn't do anything really new or different, it just does the old stuff really well with a few twists and it is fun. My guess is most of you will ever even consider playing it.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:14 pm

Light Speed wrote:GRAW is a perfectly good game, it doesn't do anything really new or different, it just does the old stuff really well with a few twists and it is fun. My guess is most of you will ever even consider playing it.

Yeah, and the reason is because tactical console shooters suck ass.

Post by **Popcorn** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:41 pm

GRAW is a perfectly good game, it doesn't do anything really new or different, it just does the old stuff really well with a few twists and it is fun. My guess is most of you will ever even consider playing it.

This is a Sonic forum. Bar a few exceptions, we don't much care for an awful lot of games about big shooty army men. It's just not part of our collective taste.

Oh, and then, of course, there's the fact that it

Light Speed wrote: doesn't do anything really new or different...

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:47 pm

You guys are all too freaking picky about your games.

Or you could just admit that you like really shitty games. It seems there are alot of people who do.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:43 am

I enjoy shitty games a great deal. Of course, it's helpful if you're doing it with friends. Otherwise, you're just playing minigames and laughing at the mentally handicapped announcer who's just a bit too excited at everything.

Wooduck51 · Post by **Wooduck51** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:50 am

I am particularly disappointed by DoAX 2.

The realistic jiggle helps it not, the game looks like crap. Especially considering what the 360 is able to do graphics wise.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:16 am

I play the same games you guys do and enjoy them, but I also don't limit myself to 2 games a year. Gibbon, how many games did you play last year? I know you really liked Psychonauts, we all did, but aside from a few of the psychic abilities it is a bunch of old platforming ideas that were done really well with a good art direction and a unique story. Since when does a game that perfects a bunch of good ideas make a game bad? GRAW does add a few new things to the table, but overall it just tells a decent story in a very nice format and has some entertaining gameplay.

All I'm saying is more games come out that are worth playing than some of you care to believe. I don't think I just like shitty games. Either way though, if I am entertained by said game, I really don't care if it is shitty.

Post by **Popcorn** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:33 am

Light Speed wrote:I play the same games you guys do and enjoy them, but I also don't limit myself to 2 games a year.

No-one "limits" themselves to two games a year. I think I've finished maybe three games since last August, but that's not due to some self-inflicted masochism-- it's just that the industry isn't producing many games I'm interested in right now. (The number of games I'm interested in that actually end up being good is an even more tragic statistic.) It's just a question of preference-- if you generally don't enjoy sports games, racing games, war simulators, crime simulators, movie tie-ins, TV tie-ins or any game sporting a general 'urban' ethic with the inclusion of black people killing other black people in various guises, then the industry just isn't putting out much for you. Basically, unless you fall under the wide umbrella of the massmarket, you're fucked. Yes, I see your point: if only I could bring myself to like all those genres, I'd be having a great time. But I can't, and I'm not.

I know you really liked Psychonauts, we all did, but aside from a few of the psychic abilities it is a bunch of old platforming ideas that were done really well with a good art direction and a unique story.

Actually, I think that Psychonauts' actually very basic platforming skeleton was a serious flaw, but I think you're underestimating the importance of good art direction and story. It was Psychonauts' aesthetic features-- its characters, art, music and so on-- that people loved, less so its by-the-numbers platforming schtick.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:40 am

Popcorn wrote:
I know you really liked Psychonauts, we all did, but aside from a few of the psychic abilities it is a bunch of old platforming ideas that were done really well with a good art direction and a unique story.
Actually, I think that Psychonauts' actually very basic platforming skeleton was a serious flaw, but I think you're underestimating the importance of good art direction and story. It was Psychonauts' aesthetic features-- its characters, art, music and so on-- that people loved, less so its by-the-numbers platforming schtick.

I am well aware of the fact that all those things are what made Psychonauts great. I am also saying that this is the same reason GRAW is great, despite the fact that it really didn't do anything different.

I understand that the industry is slow right now, but it just seems like the overall attitude of the forum is that there aren't any good games ever and it seems like we all might as well quit playing games then. I think a lot of that might just be rubbing off from the fact that we are all so very disappointed in Sonic, yet we still keep talking about him and following his games out of fanboyism, myself included.

Post by **Popcorn** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:05 am

Light Speed wrote:
Popcorn wrote:
I know you really liked Psychonauts, we all did, but aside from a few of the psychic abilities it is a bunch of old platforming ideas that were done really well with a good art direction and a unique story.
Actually, I think that Psychonauts' actually very basic platforming skeleton was a serious flaw, but I think you're underestimating the importance of good art direction and story. It was Psychonauts' aesthetic features-- its characters, art, music and so on-- that people loved, less so its by-the-numbers platforming schtick.
I am well aware of the fact that all those things are what made Psychonauts great. I am also saying that this is the same reason GRAW is great, despite the fact that it really didn't do anything different.

Ahh, but that's my point: Psychonauts is flawed in that in mechanical terms it's nothing new or imaginative, but compensates through creative aesthetic design. GRAW, meanwhile, may very well be a good game in mechanical terms (though it's a war sim, so chances are I'd disagree with that), but since it doesn't do anything new or exciting with those mechanics it needs some creative and imaginative aesthetic design to make itself interesting to someone like, for example, me. Instead, it is a game where you play as a big shooty soldier.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:24 am

What makes it appealing to me is the amount of things you can do. You usually have control of a camera in the sky so you can move that around to find guys, you can walk up to a wall and peak around corners. This isn't new, but it works quite well. However the thing I liked the most about GRAW was the way the story was told. Like I said in earlier posts, you can't even really tell when one level ends and the next begins, you are always in the same perspective and the story is unfolded through newsbroadcasts and information from superiors given to you through a picture in picture on your HUD. I will agree it isn't the bestest game of ever, but I think it does everything really well and for someone that liked Half Life 2 as much as you, I daresay you might enjoy the single player. Although it is a tactical shooter and not a run and gun, so maybe not. Plus the whole military thing.

Also for the record, the reason I keep using GRAW is because, as you said, there really aren't a ton of games out right now and that is one that just sticks out in my mind that I recently really enjoyed and know pretty much none of you played.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:48 am

Nobody's impeding on your right to play mediocre games and enjoy them - and in this context, by "mediocre" I mean formulaic genre games that affix themselves steadfastly to certain mechanical and aesthetic axioms that have and continue to prove successful sales-wise with their target demographic (all the games you mentioned fall into this category) - but it's absurd to suggest that those of us unable to enjoy such kitsch fail to do so at our own discretion. I really don't think it's my own fault (or a fault at all) to be unable to enjoy every new Danielle Steele novel that gets released because my short-term memory is too good to allow me to enjoy the same schtick over and over again. If you lack this cognitive function and are so able to find entertainment in repetition then bully for you - God knows you're not alone - but for those of us who have evolved a distaste for clichÃƒÂ©s, ignorance of said aversion is not really an option anymore than you could pretend to enjoy stale bread.

Frieza2000 · Post by **Frieza2000** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:53 am

Light Speed wrote:Yeah, that was a poorly worded sentence. What I am trying to say is that I don't think you guys would enjoy a good game anymore because your standards are so ridiculously high. Several games I enjoy are totally shunned here, and why? GRAW is a perfectly good game, it doesn't do anything really new or different, it just does the old stuff really well with a few twists and it is fun.

I think this is just natural. If you experience the same thing for long enough it's not as exciting or interesting anymore. There are people who get bored of sex. That we require progressively more of games to reach the same level of entertainment may prevent us from enjoying a game we would otherwise have enjoyed years ago, but I don't think that's something we should try to change about ourselves or that it makes our analyses any less accurate. You're right that at some point it would be more efficent for us to find a different hobby than to dig for the 1 or 2 gems of the year, but I guess none of us have reached that point yet.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:17 pm

Green Gibbon! wrote:Nobody's impeding on your right to play mediocre games and enjoy them - and in this context, by "mediocre" I mean formulaic genre games that affix themselves steadfastly to certain mechanical and aesthetic axioms that have and continue to prove successful sales-wise with their target demographic (all the games you mentioned fall into this category) - but it's absurd to suggest that those of us unable to enjoy such kitsch fail to do so at our own discretion. I really don't think it's my own fault (or a fault at all) to be unable to enjoy every new Danielle Steele novel that gets released because my short-term memory is too good to allow me to enjoy the same schtick over and over again. If you lack this cognitive function and are so able to find entertainment in repetition then bully for you - God knows you're not alone - but for those of us who have evolved a distaste for clichÃƒÂ©s, ignorance of said aversion is not really an option anymore than you could pretend to enjoy stale bread.

I'd say since about 2000 or maybe earlier most games have followed the same formula for whatever genre they belonged too. Are you saying you are now just getting tired of them or are there just fewer games now that differ from the norm than there were in 2000?

All I intended to say when I started this is it seems like if you don't like video games, why do you keep trying to play them? As you said in the Bumpy Trot thread,

Well, when I find one of the two games a year I can still enjoy I tend to take it pretty seriously.

Why spend more time bitching about something than you do enjoying it? If you enjoy bitching about it though, then by all means, go for it.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:24 pm

I don't think it's a matter of getting worn out on the "hobby" itself (indeed, I could scarcely call it that at this point). I watch even fewer movies a year than games, for example, and I can count on one hand the number of movies made in the past few years that I've seen or care to see.

I could perhaps abandon art and media altogether in favor of something more sterile and unchanging, like gardening or fishing. Except that I quite honestly don't believe the huge hulking oceans of mediocrity I see all over the place is a flaw in my own perception.