The "other" reason Naka joined STI?

[FlashTHD]

The Sonic 2 page which, I might add, still contains a number of little errors that have been pointed out before states Naka joined STI by invite of Mark Cerny, but doesn't go into it any further. Turns out he may have had another motive: He wanted to be closer to the audience that appreciated his work best. This interesting theory came up on page two of an interview with Sega of America's former CEO, Tom Kalinske, at Sega-16:

Sega-16: Allegedly, Yuji Naka left Sega of Japan in disgust after Sonic The Hedgehog was released and ended up at the Sega Technical Institute, where he began work on the sequel. Is there anything you can tell us to validate that rumor and if so, what happened there?

Tom Kalinske: It was never clear to me whether he left in disgust, but he was clearly at the Sega Technical Institute, and he clearly brought a few guys with him. They had a bunch of our guys, and they worked on Sonic The Hedgehog 2, which in my opinion is the best Sonic we ever did.

Sega-16: Do you think this caused any bad blood with Japan?

Tom Kalinske: I'd imagine it did. Yeah, it most likely added more fuel to the fire. I think he (Naka) wanted more freedom, and since Sonic wasn't as successful in the Japanese market as it was in this one, he probably wanted to be closer to where it was successful and listen to why people thought it had been successful, as well as get the input of Americans who loved the character and gameplay and all that. I think there was a lot of that in there too. I don't know if that means he was disgusted; I think he just felt that there was a better opportunity by working out of our office.

I linked to the first page because the interview itself is quite an awesome read. All the conspiracy theories about Sega's american and japanese branches loathing each other with a flaming passion? They're true. You'd have never guessed that SoJ's stubborn-ass hardware team being stuck up was what gave the N64 some of its' innards.

[Green Gibbon!]

What errors doest thou speak of?

[The Doc]

Well, I can be all nitpicky and name a small one: you can chain bops on green bumpers to get up to 10,000 points per hit, if there's enough around.

Also, there are eight mini-eggpods orbiting Flying Eggman, as opposed to seven (or so I counted), and it IS possible to fall in Sky Chase if you're stupid and attempt a Spin Dash.

And one other thing I guess I should point out for no good reason: it IS possible to beat the Death Egg (or "Giant Eggman Mech", if that's your fancy) by quite literally kicking it's ass. It just takes more precise maneuvering, better placement of the Egg when it lands, and more patience than the normal human can contain.

[FlashTHD]

More than that.

-- "Continues are no longer earned from Special Stages, but can be acquired by racking up a score of 10,000." - Doesn't clarify what. The game very generously gives you a continue if your bonuses at the end of each act total at or more than 10,000 points. (You're guaranteed to get it if you finish with 100 rings or more.)

-- You forgot to mention the Perfect Bonus. If you somehow manage to collect every last ring in any act, and finish it with all of them in tow, you get a whopping 50,000 extra points (essentially amounting to an extra life for all the trouble).

-- "Spider bots that glide along ceilings. If Sonic approaches underneath, Grabber will drop down and attempt to squeeze the Rings out of the hapless hog." - What he actually does when gets ahold you is self-destruct. The only way to escape is to play a Sonic & Tails game and have the other character bop him quick.

-- "Kamikaze star bots that just hover in place until Sonic approaches, at which point they fly towards the hog and explode, sending a spike flying from each of their five hands. The only way to destroy them is to smack into them while invincible." - I know you've been corrected about this one before. What makes Telstars so invulnerable is that they sit in walls. If one ventures out into the open far enough before it blows, you can destroy it yourself, though it's usually not worth it.

-- In Death Egg, it's probably worth noting that Mecha Sonic always attacks in the same set pattern, so once you have it down, he's a bit less bothersome. Also, "The Death Egg takes 11 hits to defeat." - Sorry, try 12 hits.

-- "Smack into one of these and 10 Rings are subtracted from your total. (If Tails gets smacked, you only lose 1.)" - What? Untrue. Where did you get that?

-- "Eggman Mark (エッグマンマク) -- Instantly lose a life and return to the last Point Marker" - I don't recall the Eggman monitors causing instant death. I could be wrong, though i'm certain i'm not.

-- This may just be a nitpick, but don't you think Hidden Palace deserves more mention than its' unused BGM in the sound test given it was supposed to mark a turning point in the story before they cut it?

[Popcorn]

More than that.


-- Also, "The Death Egg takes 11 hits to defeat." - Sorry, try 12 hits.

And what's more, it's not the Death Egg you're fighting.

[big_smile]

More than that.
-- Also, "The Death Egg takes 11 hits to defeat." - Sorry, try 12 hits.

And what's more, it's not the Death Egg you're fighting.

The official Sonic 2 and Mega Collection guide books name the robot as 'Death Egg'. The Sonic Jam guide calls him 'Robot Eggman'.

(It's discussed in this thread).

^_^

[Green Gibbon!]

I feel so old.

you can chain bops on green bumpers to get up to 10,000 points per hit, if there's enough around.

I just experimented with it, and it seems the most I can get is 500 when I chained multiple bumpers in their "red" phase. I tried 10 and still only got 500 each - if it's possible to get 10,000 with more than that, it would take more bumpers than appear together anywhere in either Act, as far as I'm aware. Is it possible to get 10,000 without using the debug code?

Also, there are eight mini-eggpods orbiting Flying Eggman

There are definitely only 7.

And what's more, it's not the Death Egg you're fighting.

That's confused me for years. Originally I had assumed it was the Death Egg because it was this big part of the story and it made sense that it would be the last thing you fight (plus you never actually see the Death Egg proper), then Sonic 3 comes along and the Death Egg is obviously the giant space station so I assumed the giant Eggman robo didn't have an official name. But in the Sonic Mega Collection strategy guide, it's very clearly labelled "Death Egg" until the Sonic & Knuckles section, when it's called the "Eggman Robo". So maybe when Sonic 2 was in development the Eggman robo was going to be the Death Egg, then someone got the idea for the Death Star spoof. I really don't know what the deal with all that is, but I think it's more important to preserve inconsistencies rather than attempt to mend them.

[Professor Machenstein]

(plus you never actually see the Death Egg proper)

You do in the level select screen.

[Popcorn]

It's a fuckin' space station. The special stage picture shows it to be huge and round. It's the fuckin' Death Egg.

Considering the evidence, which is more likely: that up until Sonic 2, the robot was the Death Egg, not the space station-- or that the strategy guide is mistaken? Either way, although I totally see your point regarding preserving inconsistencies, I think there's a line you have to draw somewhere for comprehension's sake. No-one but about four people on this board are going to know why the hell you've listed the robot as the Death Egg. It looks retardedly gay.

[Green Gibbon!]

If it would just be the Mega Collection guide I'd be more cautious about taking it as fact, but since it's also in the Sonic 2 guide (according, at least, to some alleged Japanese informant Smile has been referring to for years), I would suspect that the Sonic Jam guide is the one where they tried to mend their error, which is certainly canon, but on the museum pages I'm more interested in preserving place and time rather than accommodating latter clarifications. Of course when they call it the "Death Egg" maybe they're just talking about the location of the battle and not the mech itself, like Final Zone or something.

It is a very troubling situation. Any other votes on how it should be handled on the museum page?

Also, we are turbo geeks.

[Shadow Hog]

I dunno what the hell you should call it, but I'm with Popcorn in that it shouldn't be called the Death Egg. It'd get damn confusing. ("So, wait, Death Egg the <i>boss</i>, or Death Egg the <i>level</i>?")

[FlashTHD]

Solution: Make a note on the page that we're talking about the giant robot, not the spaceship, and that its' real name is in question and will probably always be in question.

[Pepperidge]

but on the museum pages I'm more interested in preserving place and time rather than accommodating latter clarifications.

We will have none of this faggotry, Gibbon! If the latter clarifications make more sense, then you're damned well going to use them. But if it does bother you, you can include a footnote clarifying the the original, obviously mistaken term. This site show go for clarity, not preserving typos.

While we're on the subject, I'm still kind of bothered about the whole "two sets of Emeralds" aspect of the Sonic 3 story being addressed on that page, even though that concept is basically contradicted in Sonic & Knuckles where there is clearly only one set.

[Esrever]

I think it's worthwhile preserving the inconsistencies, provided you actually point them out and explain them within the article itself. Otherwise, it does get a bit confusing!

[Tsuyoshi-kun]

-- "Smack into one of these and 10 Rings are subtracted from your total. (If Tails gets smacked, you only lose 1.)" - What? Untrue. Where did you get that?

That's a reference to the Special Stages in Sonic 2. If you're playing a Sonic & Tails game, Tails indeed loses a Ring if he hits the spikes in the Special Stages. Tails doesn't lose Rings in the regular Zones, unlike your partners in Chaotix, who do lose a Ring each time they're hit.

[The Doc]

Well, yeah, but comparing Sonic the Hedgehog 2 to Chaotix is kinda like comparing Dr. Pepper to mineral oil.

[Frieza2000]

Explaining the whole situation of conflicting sources is much more informative than just picking one.

[big_smile]

Editing out inconsistencies is not much different from creating fan fiction, as it produces an overly personal interpretation of the facts.

If it would just be the Mega Collection guide I'd be more cautious about taking it as fact, but since it's also in the Sonic 2 guide (according, at least, to some alleged Japanese informant Smile has been referring to for years) […]Of course when they call it the "Death Egg" maybe they're just talking about the location of the battle

Hari Hari originally provide the names. All his information has so far been accurate, but I’ll ask him if he can provide a scan of the guide so we can double check the context.

A significant proportion of content for the Mega Collection guide has been lifted directly from older guides (the Sonic 3 enemy in-game screen shots, for example, are identical to those found in the Sonic 3 guide). While it could be possible that the ‘mistake’ was blindly included, it seems unlikely, as many of the spellings for Eggman’s creations were supposedly revised and updated.

While we're on the subject, I'm still kind of bothered about the whole "two sets of Emeralds" aspect of the Sonic 3 story being addressed on that page, even though that concept is basically contradicted in Sonic & Knuckles where there is clearly only one set.

Sonic Mega Collection contained story summaries for each of the games which indirectly referred to Knuckles’ extra set:
Having been tricked by Dr Eggman, Knuckles thinks that Sonic has come to steal the Chaos Emeralds..
This suggests that the contradiction is still officially retained.

The contradiction isn’t that problematic, as the second set is ‘destroyed’ almost immediately after their introduction, returning the number of Emeralds back to seven. In Sonic & Knuckles we see emerald shards around the Master Emerald, which could be the remains of Knuckles’ emeralds (although this has never been explicitly confirmed).

[FlashTHD]

-- "Smack into one of these and 10 Rings are subtracted from your total. (If Tails gets smacked, you only lose 1.)" - What? Untrue. Where did you get that?

That's a reference to the Special Stages in Sonic 2. If you're playing a Sonic & Tails game, Tails indeed loses a Ring if he hits the spikes in the Special Stages.

No he doesn't, he loses 10 per hit like Sonic. I lost count of the number of times the AI-controlled Tails has blown a Special Stage on me.

[Tsuyoshi-kun]

Why did I think it was only 1...? Guess it's been a while since I played Sonic 2 with Sonic and Tails together. And yeah, the Tails CPU always cost me a lot of the Special Stages, mostly the 4th-6th.

[Green Gibbon!]

Yeah, I could've sworn for all the world that Tails only lost a single Ring, but when I checked it he loses a full 10. A funny thing, this memory business.

[FlashTHD]

No kidding, you still forgot to clarify how continues are awarded. Ever try Brain Age?

[Green Gibbon!]

Well, that would kind of be a redundant point to make. I mentioned that continues are earned for every 10,000 points and also mention that each Ring is worth 100 points at the end-of-stage tally, so anyone can assume that having 100 Rings at clear stage adds up to a continue.

I noticed that nobody has helped me decipher the Sonic & Tails 2 boss names. Which I will assume means that everyone is as baffled as I am or you're all just having fun watching me make an idiot of myself.

[The Doc]

That second one. ^_^

[big_smile]

Hari Hari very kindly included scans from every guide book that has referenced the Death Egg.

To avoid unnecessarily taxing his bandwidth, I have uploaded them here.


^_^