Super?

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:43 pm

So, New Super Mario Bros.

So.. So, hm.

I don't think I was expecting to be blown away but I'm not even finding myself especially entertained. It's cute and solid and there are some clever moments - the butt whomp was a nice inclusion, especially when you whomp on a coin block and just sit there on it extracting money because it looks like Mario is shitting coins through the block which has the same kind of juvenile charm as when you shoot a fireball in Mario 1 and notice that it looks like Mario is flinging a flaming booger from his nose - and it's also cool when you get the giant mushroom for the first time and go smashing through every brick and pipe in the stage which is like the Game Genie code we all wanted to find 20 years ago - but once the initial charm wears off (which it does by the second or third stage) there's nothing especially gripping. No Yoshi, no Tanuki suit, no secrets that aren't bloody obvious (or maybe I've just learned to spot them better after all these years, but they aren't as exciting anymore)... just run, jump, and squash goombas. There's lots of old stuff here - a little bit of just about everything that's ever been done with the series, but nothing significantly fresh like Mario World's ghost houses or Mario 3's flying.

Some of the new mechanics irk me. In particular, the "super tiny" Mario bit feels like a cheap means of adding challenge and a far too obvious (and overused) way to wedge in hidden areas. It should've been cool, but kind of just boils down to blue coins. Also, there's no reason at all not to be able to save your game after every stage (you get this option after clearing the game, but it's even more lousy to offer as a reward what should've been a standard feature). You can still carry a "spare" power-up item, but to use it you have to tap the touch screen, which I will not dare do with my bare greasy fingers - and it's quite an inconvenience to have to pause and reach around for the stylus pen in the heat of combat, especially when the game has absolutely no other use for the pen or touch screen whatsoever.

It feels like it lacks the depth of older games in the series. It's like the Mario version of Sonic Advance. The mechanics are in place, but there's an intangible something that's missing. Is it just me? Have I finally crossed that line in my old age or is this really as hollow as it feels?

Kishi · Post by **Kishi** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:50 pm

I think the problem is that they were too zealous about making it like SMB1, which meant they largely decided not to include a lot of the stuff that made SMB3 and SMW so cool. I'm surprised they even let you scroll the screen to the left.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:46 pm

I agree with you on pretty much every count. The game's a decent, solid, moderately enjoyable platformer with absolutely no depth or uniqueness.

I still managed to dislike the graphics, even after they cleaned them up quite a bit from the initial showings a couple years ago. Those ugly 3D models just don't appeal to me.

The game is way too easy. I found everything in less than a week, and could have done it in just two days if I'd really been trying. There's really no depth or replay value to be found, as you mentioned the lack of Yoshi or flying shortens its lifespan by quite a bit. Also, the complete absence of any real unlockables whatsoever is a major disappointment. I was hoping for a hidden world.

The new power-ups suck ass. The Mega and Mini Mushrooms are utterly worthless. After their initial novelty factor wears off (which should be after the first time), it becomes immediately apparent that they were added as a cheap gimmick to look cool (in the case of the Mega, as it is functionally useless in 99.9% of the stages), or as a way to increase difficulty for no reason (in the case of the Mini, which has no other purpose than to make certain hidden areas especially difficult to reach). The blue shell is pretty useless as well. Some people love it, but I didn't care for it at all.

Decent game, but not an "instant classic" like some people claimed, and not even a classic by any standard. 10 years from now, people aren't going to remember this game.

Post by **Esrever** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:35 pm

Past Mario itterations have always been about making things bigger, broader, beefier. But here, they're trying to strip back. Or rather, they've tried to go back to the beginning and then cautiously build it back up.

They've taken Mario 1 and infused it with some of the series' later additions, but they're very careful not to go "too far" and lose the feel of the original. The end result is that all the "new" elements come across as simpler, lamer versions of things done in other Mario sequels.

The new game has more alternate routes and exits than the first Mario Bros., but they're not as complex or as interesting as those found in Mario World. It has new items other than the original's mushroom and fireflower, but they're not as diverse or well-utilized as those found in Mario 3. It has more creative bosses than Mario Bros. did, but they're not as creative as the ones in Yoshi's Island.

Everything is an evolutionary step up from Mario 1, and a step down from all the other titles. The result is a game that's neither here nor there, neither charmingly basic nor compellingly deep.

If it wasn't for the graphical gimmicks, it could very well have been an alternate Mario Bros. 2. That would have been awesome back in the 80s, but now you just have to take it for what it is... a fun, solid game that could have been a lot better if the developers hadn't purposely held themselves back with this "simplicity" mantra.

Post by **Green Gibbon!** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:52 pm

So it's not just me, then. That's a bit of a relief.

It could also be mentioned that the soundtrack is largely forgettable, which is getting to be par for the course with Nintendo. Which makes me wonder exactly what Kondo is up to these days. Is he retired or something? What was the last game he scored, Ocarina of Time? Or has he utterly lost his touch?

Post by **Esrever** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:23 am

He seems to be at least quasi-retired. He's been listed as a co-composer in a few more recent games, but they're just ones that reuse or remix his older stuff.

I thought that the music played during the mushroom levels was pretty catchy, though.

Cuckooguy · Post by **Cuckooguy** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:53 am

Hmm, I think I feel the same way about Rockman Rockman (Mega Man: Powered Up!). Rockman Rockman is a very solid game that adds in features that everyone has wanted since the first Rockman game they've played (such as playing as the robot masters), but I feel like it's missing a special something that was in Rockman 2 or 3. I mean, sure, playing as Gutsman is almost like playing as Chip 'n Dale (NES) in Rockman levels... and there are brain teaser challenges in the form of short levels... but still, I don't think the game is of at least Rockman 2 calibur. I guess I would rate Rockman Rockman better than 5, 6, and 8, and perhaps somewhere equal with 1, 4, and 7.

Which I guess might be good enough, I suppose, when you consider all the new content they added, so I don't know why I decided to bitch.

Just for your information, while Rockman Rockman is a remake of the first game, the level layouts are considerably different from the first game (though it borrows obstacles and the enemies from the first game, such as the pillars of flame and Hammer Joes).

James McGeachie · Post by **James McGeachie** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:23 am

The situation with Kondo comes across more that he's just got extremely lazy. The only titles he seems to work on at this point are the main "big" Mario and Zelda games, as he still composed a good deal of Sunshine and Wind Waker's music and I'm assuming he's hard at work on Twilight Princess just now. Other than that it seems he does absolutely nothing. I think he worked on NSMB for a track or two, possibly the original iteration of the main theme from the 2005 trailer if I'm to take a guess, however the majority of the soundtrack was composed by someone who worked on Yoshi's Touch and Go apparently.

I'd like to comment on New Super Mario Brothers myself but unfortunately the game still wont be out in Europe for another 3 weeks. Stupidly I decided I'd wait till European release so I could still get my 250 VIP stars for the Nintendo Europe website, in the probably pointless hope that one day they'll have some amazing offer in the Stars Catalogue I'll desire more than anything.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:48 am

I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros. and I do think it's a good game but I was a little disappointed with it. The game just felt a little too simplified and is something of a step backward compared to Super Mario World. It's way too easy as well and while I appreciate they're trying to make the game appeal to a wider audience it would have been nice to at least have a secret world with some harder levels for veteran players. The new power ups were also pretty useless most of the time unless you're trying to get to secret areas/exits. One thing I disagree about though is the music. I actually quite liked the music and found it pretty catchy. Overall, it's still a good game and a solid platformer but for the first new side-scrolling Mario platformer in 15 years it's a little underwhelming.

The Doc · Post by **The Doc** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:41 am

Since you guys have said basically everything about the game, there's no need for me to say much else, except about the minigames. While there are some new ones, it's a cheap marketing ploy, and they know it. They mostly just took a bunch of touch-screen games from SM64DS (because the extra item was the only use for the touch screen anyway) and just plugged them in. Like I said, there are some new ones, but not enough to warrant anybody to give a fuck.

If they do come out with a sequel, they'd better add something that can actually be done in every level (unlike the Mega and Mini Mushrooms, as previously stated), otherwise it's just not gonna sell at all. It'll just feel like another rehash.

SDHawk · Post by **SDHawk** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:20 pm

I'm not entirley sure how it's a marketing ploy when they hardly mention the existence of the minigames anywhere except the game itself. I'm just a little bit irked by all the people complaining about their inclusion as I'm apparently the only DS owner who didn't buy SM64 and actually appreciates having them availible in a game I actually care about.

Yes, it was lazy that they added hardly anything to the minigames but it's hardly a selling point and very much appreciated if you don't own SM64.

Also in contrast to the rest of the posts, I've found the game surprisingly refreshing for basicly being a throwback with hints of every mario in it. There's a lot that has been seen, but then they add just a small enough new thing in it to keep it fresh.

That said, I haven't beaten it yet and I wasn't all that heavy of a player of past marios. Sure I played them, but I hardly realized secrets even existed at the time so it could just be my lack of past experience making the game feel new to me.

Zeta · Post by **Zeta** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:38 pm

It's a solid but unimpressive "B Minus" game that relies entirely on nostalgia to make it notable at all. I kinda regret buying it.

FlashTHD · Post by **FlashTHD** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:17 pm

I think every major malfunction with the game stems from a lack of balance everywhere you look. Offhand: Coins and 1ups are so ridiculously plentiful that if the screen displays the words "Game Over", it's because you gave the game to a six year old. The new power-ups aren't used in enough creative ways, and it's plain weak to make you go back and use up a Toad House to get a certain power-up so you can pass that otherwise impossible place. It hurts what's otherwise some excellent level design work. The World Maps are too straightforward, so the secret areas aren't secrets well kept for long. They didn't pay enough attention to detail, which caused the tapestry of it all to unravel in several key places. What could have been a great game ended up merely decent.

It's strange that they'd be this wreckless with a 2D Mario game. The old games prided themselves on precise control and carefully crafted game design. Miyamoto was only the supervisor and Takashi Tezuka is listed in the credits as "General Producer"...that gives me the impression that they would rather have kept making newer, "different" games like Mario Galaxy instead and pressing forward. I'm not doubting that they can make another 2D Mario with the same caliber of Mario World, but maybe it's a good thing that Mario hasn't done much backtracking like this.

On the other hand, I have a few problems with this gameplay formula that none of the 2D Marios were able to shake: It seems that the best way to enjoy these games is to play them start to finish. Playing completed stages over again in a complete save file doesn't hold my attention for long. I know something's off when I get the most enjoyment out of the levels by being forced through them. I also don't understand the series' obsession with stockpiling reams and reams of extra lives; I suppose it's cool for my ego that my Mario World save has maxed out everything, which I earned on my own, but none of the 2D games (barring SMB1 and perhaps 3 if you play them straight up) are that wacko hard. Finally, is it a despciable crime if a developer creates a boss for this series that isn't pathetic?

It could also be mentioned that the soundtrack is largely forgettable, which is getting to be par for the course with Nintendo.

I'd say it's just you on this one; I thought the new theme tunes were great. Much better than I was anticipating from someone who did a minimal soundtrack for a minimal game. The way they mixed in 8-bit bleeps and bloops into the music was a cool touch. It's sort of like Sonic Rush; the game part is shallow, but I sometimes find myself playing it for the awesome music alone.

firemario1001 · Post by **firemario1001** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:06 pm

This game shines in it's reply value. You won't be impressed if you played just to get to the final castle, but you'll have a great time trying to get all the secrets and coins. It's no SMB3 or SMW, but it's definently no Sonic Advance either.

I recall an interview where Nintendo said they intended the game to be simplistic because many people who have a DS are not casual gamers and have never played a mario game before- this title being their first one.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:05 pm

firemario1001 wrote:This game shines in it's reply value. You won't be impressed if you played just to get to the final castle, but you'll have a great time trying to get all the secrets and coins. It's no SMB3 or SMW, but it's definently no Sonic Advance either.

Except the replay value sucks. The coins and secrets are mostly in plain view; I only had trouble with a small handful of levels. Even then I found everything in less than four days, and I wasn't even trying.

Light Speed · Post by **Light Speed** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:51 pm

It was less than a week last time. Which is it!

Double-S- · Post by **Double-S-** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:09 pm

Well, 4 days is less than a week.

Post by **Esrever** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:25 pm

The secrets aren't very hard to find... usually the only difficulty stems from having to go find a blue mushroom and return to the same spot.

And even then, the secrets themselves aren't very satisfying because they don't reward you with anything cool. There are VERY few actual extra levels found via alternate exits. There are a few that are unlocked with coins, but there are so MANY coins that you can basically unlock them all as you go. Ultimately, the only coins that are challenging to collect are the ones that give you the lamest rewards.

jenkins · Post by **jenkins** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:36 pm

I haven't played it myself, but my friend recently picked up a copy. It looked okay, I guess. I'm not a Mario person myself, though, so as usual, my opinion can be safely disregarded.

But seriously, what was so bad about the graphics? Unlike G Sonic or 3D Blast, the 3-D in 2-D graphics worked quite well. I can understand flaming the gameplay, but the graphics don't deserve such criticism.

James McGeachie · Post by **James McGeachie** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:52 pm

The graphics are incredibly soulless and lack the charm of the older Mario titles. It's not that they're outright bad, they're just well below the standards of the previous games.

Arcade · Post by **Arcade** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:47 pm

play the princess peach game, is not that bad.

Post by **Squirrelknight** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:29 pm

I thought the multiplayer was fun... Well, fun for a few days, until you realize you can win by just spamming your opponent with fireballs.

Just like no Sonic game can seem to live up to Sonic 3 (though Sonic Adventure was close,) no Mario game can seem to surpass Mario 3 (though Mario 64 was close.) Oh well, there's always Super Paper Mario.

Post by **Popcorn** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:33 pm

Squirrelknight wrote:
Just like no Sonic game can seem to live up to Sonic 3 (though Sonic Adventure was close,) no Mario game can seem to surpass Mario 3 (though Mario 64 was close.) Oh well, there's always Super Paper Mario.

Super Mario World is better than Mario 3, you fool! And Yoshi's Island is better than all of the buggers.

I haven't played New Super Mario Bros. For some reason I find the game impossible to become excited about. I think I've become so jaded I don't have time for anything other than completely new and exciting life-changing gaming experiences anymore... anything designed to be played for no longer than an hour at a time tends to get old for me within, well, an hour. But then there are no more hours after that. Not for me.

Post by **Segaholic2** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:34 pm

Popcorn wrote:Super Mario World is better than Mario 3, you fool! And Yoshi's Island is better than all of the buggers.

Yeah, I agree with everything here. I don't see what the big deal with SMB3 is; Mario World is far better than it in pretty much every way.

Post by **Squirrelknight** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:38 pm

SMB3 let you ride in a giant shoe and let you dress Mario up like a frog.

That's why SMB3 is fucking awesome.