Shadow and Rush, Opinions and General Bitching

Speak your mind, or lack thereof. There may occasionally be on-topic discussions.

Postby jenkins » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:50 pm

That's usually the case.

There should be a quality which makes you want to destroy something out of the realization that you can't actually be in the game.

Now that's an atmosphere.
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Postby James McGeachie » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:53 pm

Anyone who feels like that with the Advance games is criminally insane.

(of course, this is solely my opinion and I am not stating this is fact, I would never do such a thing!)
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Postby jenkins » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:55 pm

No, no, I really am that insane. Not all levels, though, and many classic levels get in too. :twisted:
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Postby Esrever » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:17 am

Some of the Sonic Advance levels are pretty nice looking, though! Like the final stage in Advance 3, for example.

I will say, though, that on the whole Rush has the most consistently pleasing designs I've seen in a handheld Sonic game. I wasn't sold on the screenshots, but it really does look great in motion.

I was also really enjoying the gameplay until level 6! I was all ready to say that the game was much tighter and less cheap and everything. But JESUS.
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Postby G.Silver » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:29 am

That's Altitude Limit or whatever, right? I was actually stuck there for a while on those hovering platforms in particular, I never thought to just jump off them before they slammed me into the ceiling, and you get better control that way by slowing them down a bit. The bottomless pits don't seem so bad to me now, getting through the stage just once seems to have given me a better feel for it.
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Postby (No Imagination) » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:56 am

jenkins wrote:BUT WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE ADVANCE SERIES?!?!?


They're cheap.

Egg Rocket (or whatever) act 1 from Sonic Advance has the worst obstacle placement the world has ever seen. It even challenges the Game Gear version of Sonic 2 in that aspect.

Also, I enjoy jumping around and pressing buttons WITHOUT FEAR OF SONIC UNCURLING IN MID-AIR, TOUCHING A RANDOM ENEMY, LOSING RINGS AND FALLING STRAIGHT INTO A BOTTOMLESS PIT.

They're trying too hard. That's what's wrong with them.

Edit: Okay, I've got some spare time on my hands. Rant!

The Advance series is just wrong.

1. It's got all these cool moves you will never actually need to complete the game, and most of them end up screwing you up 80% of the time. But hey! Sonic is EXXXTREME now. Kids love both Sonic and Tony Hawk, so they'll love a game where Sonic can do an un-curling flip and grind rails. Right?

2. The stages follow the formula of having a nice green level, then a factory-ish place with lava or water, then a Casino/Carnival Night type level, a snowy stage, and oh, let's not forget the obligatory pshychedelic stage with electronic music. Oh! I apologize for being so negative - Sonic Advance 3 breaks the formula, though, as they give you an OMG Stardust Speedway By Day as the first level and Bottomless Pit Riddled Sandopolis Bad Future as the final! Original as heck! And, speaking of final, for the final showdown, you go to OUTER SPACE! There you battle as SUPER SONIC! Way Cool!! If only it wasn't done before (AND better) in Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic Pocket Adventure and just about every other Sonic game since Sonic Adventure.

3. For Mega Drive and even Game Gear Sonic games, the enemies were cool animalsy robots you plew through and destroyed on the run. In the original series, we had Crabmeat, Buzz Bomber, Shellcracker, Skorp, Toxomister and the gang all giving you a moderately hard time before you learned of their attack pattern. In Advance series, we got flying insects, random jumping robo-birds and nameless snowmen one can barely even see before running straight into them. The badnik designs are lame and too small to even notice.

4. Sonic has an attitude extending beyond the initial "wave finger and frown" pose now. Dunno, this one's probably just my problem, but I can't stand him being raped like that - part of what made Sonic so cool is that the games let the player himself decide whether he took Sonic as a kiddie, animal-based platformer or a more serious one, with complex, detailed graphics far better than cartoons and worlds you could explore at will. Now? You're playing a kiddie, cartoony platformer with a talking hedgehog whether you like it or not. A heavy amout of immersion is lost.
Sonic Adventure gave Sonic just the right amount of coolness (it did have slightly cheesy voiceovers and dialogue, but the style itself was neutral and nowhere near the cheesiness of "Hey, Sonic, Eggman tricked me again so sorry about chasing you down in this wheel and killing you in a single hit many times."). Sonic Advance (2 and 3) ruined the style by taking the attitude too far. Characters trying to be cool just aren't cool.

Same goes for the games.

And I never forgive a game that introduces fanmade crap like "Cream the Rabbit", which you're stuck with for the rest of the series. *shudder*


That's, in my opinion, what's wrong with Sonic Advance and its followups.
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Postby Zeta » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:58 am

1. It's got all these cool moves you will never actually need to complete the game, and most of them end up screwing you up 80% of the time. But hey! Sonic is EXXXTREME now. Kids love both Sonic and Tony Hawk, so they'll love a game where Sonic can do an un-curling flip and grind rails. Right?


Sonic has always tried too hard to be EXTREME and RADICAL.

Remember "Dude with a 'tude"? I bet you're trying to repress that, eh?

2. The stages follow the formula of having a nice green level, then a factory-ish place with lava or water, then a Casino/Carnival Night type level, a snowy stage, and oh, let's not forget the obligatory pshychedelic stage with electronic music. Oh! I apologize for being so negative - Sonic Advance 3 breaks the formula, though, as they give you an OMG Stardust Speedway By Day as the first level and Bottomless Pit Riddled Sandopolis Bad Future as the final! Original as heck! And, speaking of final, for the final showdown, you go to OUTER SPACE! There you battle as SUPER SONIC! Way Cool!! If only it wasn't done before (AND better) in Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic Pocket Adventure and just about every other Sonic game since Sonic Adventure.


Nearly all platformers have the grass, ice, fire level setup. If you don't like that you might as well get out of the genre. Hell, most videogames of any genre fit those archetypes.

3. For Mega Drive and even Game Gear Sonic games, the enemies were cool animalsy robots you plew through and destroyed on the run. In the original series, we had Crabmeat, Buzz Bomber, Shellcracker, Skorp, Toxomister and the gang all giving you a moderately hard time before you learned of their attack pattern. In Advance series, we got flying insects, random jumping robo-birds and nameless snowmen one can barely even see before running straight into them. The badnik designs are lame and too small to even notice.


Really? I don't really notice that much of a difference. In fact, several times I could've sworn they're indentical. The only Badniks I remember being more than a minor obstacle were those fucking robo crabs in Casino night and those nutty centepedes in Mystic Cave.

4. Sonic has an attitude extending beyond the initial "wave finger and frown" pose now. Dunno, this one's probably just my problem, but I can't stand him being raped like that - part of what made Sonic so cool is that the games let the player himself decide whether he took Sonic as a kiddie, animal-based platformer or a more serious one, with complex, detailed graphics far better than cartoons and worlds you could explore at will. Now? You're playing a kiddie, cartoony platformer with a talking hedgehog whether you like it or not. A heavy amout of immersion is lost.


Really? I'd say that the older games actually gave Sonic a more kiddy, younger, Mickey-Mouseish character design. Not that I didn't love it, but if you were to put Sonic 2's character design and Sonic Advance's side by side - I'd pick out the Sonic 2 one as the one designed for a younger audience. Albiet slightly.

Sonic Adventure gave Sonic just the right amount of coolness (it did have slightly cheesy voiceovers and dialogue, but the style itself was neutral and nowhere near the cheesiness of "Hey, Sonic, Eggman tricked me again so sorry about chasing you down in this wheel and killing you in a single hit many times."). Sonic Advance (2 and 3) ruined the style by taking the attitude too far. Characters trying to be cool just aren't cool.


Again, that's ALWAYS happened in the series. SNOWBOARDING DOWN A MOUNTAIN OMG!!!!111! HANGLIDING EXTREME SPORTSORS!!!

And I never forgive a game that introduces fanmade crap like "Cream the Rabbit", which you're stuck with for the rest of the series. *shudder*


Actually, Cream was created for Heroes. She just showed up in Advance 2 early.
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Postby (No Imagination) » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:47 pm

Wow, that was thorough. It deserves the same kind of response.

Zeta wrote:Sonic has always tried too hard to be EXTREME and RADICAL.

Remember "Dude with a 'tude"? I bet you're trying to repress that, eh?


Yeah, I remember that. From the USA commercials. Never saw it in the games, though - did you? (I suppose you did.)

Nearly all platformers have the grass, ice, fire level setup. If you don't like that you might as well get out of the genre. Hell, most videogames of any genre fit those archetypes.


I'll have to agree again, though I didn't complain about games in general...I was talking about Sonic Advance. Anyone can have fire/ice/grass/etc. themed levels in their games as much as they want...but being uninspired and using the same fucking setup for three games in a row is too much for me to handle. Why not have a cave level? Or a high mountain one? Nooo. We'll use the snow theme yet again because we lack inspiration.

Really?


Yeah.

I don't really notice that much of a difference. In fact, several times I could've sworn they're indentical. The only Badniks I remember being more than a minor obstacle were those fucking robo crabs in Casino night and those nutty centepedes in Mystic Cave.


Well, yeah, that's you. And me is me. I can say nothing else. Mind I ask, though, do you prefer the original series' badniks or Advance ones?

I'd say that the older games actually gave Sonic a more kiddy, younger, Mickey-Mouseish character design. Not that I didn't love it, but if you were to put Sonic 2's character design and Sonic Advance's side by side - I'd pick out the Sonic 2 one as the one designed for a younger audience. Albiet slightly.


Oh, please. Those Sonic Advance 2 & 3 dialogue scenes almost make me embarassed...I'm 21, and I'm looking at cartoons involving a mother rabbit, her daughter and a fluffy flying thing. I think it's the black outlines and colored eyes that kill it for me...

Again, that's ALWAYS happened in the series. SNOWBOARDING DOWN A MOUNTAIN OMG!!!!111! HANGLIDING EXTREME SPORTSORS!!!


Give me three examples of your EXTREME SPORTSORS from the original series. Not one, three. I can only think of two right now, and no, wing-walking on a biplane or being shot out of a cannon doesn't count. Nobody does that for sports. But, since you seem to have a sharp eye for EXTREME SPORTSORS, seeing as you see it ALWAYS happen in the series, I'm sure you'll find other examples to back up your opinion quickly. An example from Sonic 1, 2 or CD would be nice.

Actually, Cream was created for Heroes. She just showed up in Advance 2 early.


That's like saying Tails was created for Sonic Chaos, he just showed up in Sonic 2 early. (Okay, not as retarded. *avoids bricks*) It could be real or not, but it doesn't really have much significance, beacuse it was still Advance 2 that introduced her.
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Postby jenkins » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:50 pm

Kyaah, I've been out for a little too long. First of all let's get this straight:

Egg Rocket remains the best Sonic level in history.

You can argue anything else I say, it's only fair, and you don't have to like Egg Rocket as much as me, but if you hate it for the obstacles? Come on, man, you're probably just still pissed because it too you too long to beat it. I try and play that game on that level every day; it's entertaining, has the best graphics in the game, and far and away the best music.

Saying Egg rocket sucks would be like saying Icecap sucks. To me, it's even worse.
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Postby SegaSonic » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:00 pm

(No Imagination) wrote:
jenkins wrote:BUT WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE ADVANCE SERIES?!?!?


They're cheap.

Egg Rocket (or whatever) act 1 from Sonic Advance has the worst obstacle placement the world has ever seen. It even challenges the Game Gear version of Sonic 2 in that aspect.

Also, I enjoy jumping around and pressing buttons WITHOUT FEAR OF SONIC UNCURLING IN MID-AIR, TOUCHING A RANDOM ENEMY, LOSING RINGS AND FALLING STRAIGHT INTO A BOTTOMLESS PIT.

They're trying too hard. That's what's wrong with them.

Edit: Okay, I've got some spare time on my hands. Rant!

The Advance series is just wrong.

1. It's got all these cool moves you will never actually need to complete the game, and most of them end up screwing you up 80% of the time. But hey! Sonic is EXXXTREME now. Kids love both Sonic and Tony Hawk, so they'll love a game where Sonic can do an un-curling flip and grind rails. Right?

2. The stages follow the formula of having a nice green level, then a factory-ish place with lava or water, then a Casino/Carnival Night type level, a snowy stage, and oh, let's not forget the obligatory pshychedelic stage with electronic music. Oh! I apologize for being so negative - Sonic Advance 3 breaks the formula, though, as they give you an OMG Stardust Speedway By Day as the first level and Bottomless Pit Riddled Sandopolis Bad Future as the final! Original as heck! And, speaking of final, for the final showdown, you go to OUTER SPACE! There you battle as SUPER SONIC! Way Cool!! If only it wasn't done before (AND better) in Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic Pocket Adventure and just about every other Sonic game since Sonic Adventure.

3. For Mega Drive and even Game Gear Sonic games, the enemies were cool animalsy robots you plew through and destroyed on the run. In the original series, we had Crabmeat, Buzz Bomber, Shellcracker, Skorp, Toxomister and the gang all giving you a moderately hard time before you learned of their attack pattern. In Advance series, we got flying insects, random jumping robo-birds and nameless snowmen one can barely even see before running straight into them. The badnik designs are lame and too small to even notice.

4. Sonic has an attitude extending beyond the initial "wave finger and frown" pose now. Dunno, this one's probably just my problem, but I can't stand him being raped like that - part of what made Sonic so cool is that the games let the player himself decide whether he took Sonic as a kiddie, animal-based platformer or a more serious one, with complex, detailed graphics far better than cartoons and worlds you could explore at will. Now? You're playing a kiddie, cartoony platformer with a talking hedgehog whether you like it or not. A heavy amout of immersion is lost.
Sonic Adventure gave Sonic just the right amount of coolness (it did have slightly cheesy voiceovers and dialogue, but the style itself was neutral and nowhere near the cheesiness of "Hey, Sonic, Eggman tricked me again so sorry about chasing you down in this wheel and killing you in a single hit many times."). Sonic Advance (2 and 3) ruined the style by taking the attitude too far. Characters trying to be cool just aren't cool.

Same goes for the games.

And I never forgive a game that introduces fanmade crap like "Cream the Rabbit", which you're stuck with for the rest of the series. *shudder*


That's, in my opinion, what's wrong with Sonic Advance and its followups.


AGREED

and thats true Sonic wasnt that kiddie in the past.

Please compare the Sonic Movie to Sonic X.

The Sonic Movie had some Mature Stuff in it, like Tails Touching Sera's boobs and Sonic giving the finger.

And that Dude with Tude Shit was just in america, Americans turned Sonic into Bullshit..and theyre still doing it..so much that theyre affecting Japan.

*Cough* Shadow.
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Postby jenkins » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:07 pm

Oh, that reminded me.

The Sky Canyon boss was the cheapest boss I have ever faced.

Thank you for your time.
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Postby jenkins » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:24 pm

Whoa, check it out!
http://dioxaz.free.fr/sprites/avatars/vilain.gif
A cool fan character!

But I agree that Cream sucks.
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Postby Professor Machenstein » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:46 pm

The terms "cool" and "fan character" is an oxymoron.
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Postby jenkins » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:50 pm

Professor Machenstein wrote:The terms "cool" and "fan character" is an oxymoron.


There's an exception to every rule. Unless, of course, you've already seen the character, in which case you need to go to your shame closet.

Also: That should read, "The terms "cool" and "fan character" are oxymoronic. Try again, buddy.
Last edited by jenkins on Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Professor Machenstein » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:54 pm

*Inserts coin*

The terms "cool" and "fan character" are oxymoronic... Unless they're pirates.
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Postby Baba O'Reily » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:59 pm

Jenkins, you're a fucking douchebag.

I mean that in the best possible way.
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Postby j-man » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:02 pm

I'd say he's right at home here, then. We're hardly model citizens, with our interweb bitchery and so forth.
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Postby Baba O'Reily » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:04 pm

Hey, why don't you shut up? I'm trying to be condescending, and you're fucking me up by being absolutely right.
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Postby j-man » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:06 pm

Sorry. I'll try to be less sexy next time.
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Postby Delphine » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:36 pm

I don't think that's possible.
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Postby firemario1001 » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:43 pm

The whole Sonic being cool thing was just a marketing ploy to get you to stop playing Mario and play to play Sonic instead. I don't think it crossed the original developers minds at all.
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Postby Zeta » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:18 pm

OK, so who wins - retooled Ninja Espio or Villain the Pirate Echidnarr?
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Postby CM August » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:13 pm

Null vote.
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Postby j-man » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:48 am

Delphine wrote:I don't think that's possible.

Aw, you still care. ;)
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Postby Omni Hunter » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:33 am

At least we got to the "General Bitching" part as stated in the title.
Although -5 points for the Pirate Echidna link
Image.

@j-man- My brother is still whining about how sexy you are :/.
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