The GHZ Forum

More or less! America demanded an unconditional surrender, which the Japanese felt they could not accept for fear of losing the Emperor. So, Japan did not surrender until after the bomb was dropped. The question is, did America needed to drop the bomb, or would the Japanese have surrendered anyhow?

Many argue that without the bomb, it would have taken a full scale land invasion of Japan to force an unconditional surrender. Only the sheer horror of the bomb was enough to essentially scare the reluctant Japanese (and particularly their Emperor) into accepting an unconditional surrender.

But others argue that the Japanese were already on the verge of surrendering, and that the bomb was uneccessary to win in Japan. These people usually attribute the use of the bomb to some ulterior American motive, such as ending the war quickly before the Soviets entered the theatre, or simply showcasing America's military power to spook the commies into acting more submissive during the post-war negotiations.

Historians have been arguing about this for ages. I don't really have a strong opinion either way... there's a lot of evidence for both. There isn't, however, a lot of evidence backing up the claim that FDR knew about Pearl Harbour in advance. Since he had wanted to get the reluctant American population to support the US entering the war for some time, he sure got a lot of mileage out of it once it did happen. But did he actually know about it in advance and let it happen? There is very little to support that statement. Nice conspiracy theory, though!

History major.... AWWAAAAAYYYYY!!!!!

Wow, that's like the first post I've ever seen Esrever make utilizing his vast knowledge of historic events!

It may be a conspiracy theory, but it's what I believe... At one time it was dismissed saying that Woodrow Wilson was in a coma durning the last year of his term... And about the "..." it's mannerism I have been using for years now... You know it's along the same lines like how some people like to be asshats about little idiosyncrasies in another's message...

Jaden wrote:You know it's along the same lines like how some people like to be asshats about little idiosyncrasies in another's message...

Oh no, it looks like someone was mildly offended!

Seriously though, go back to wearing your tinfoil hat made out of ellipses.

So because you believe in a conspiracy theory I have a shitty background in history? Or is that a concession? Either way your logic is bankrupt.

All I ever see in Jaden's posts are a sea of ellipses.

You think I'm crazy, big deal... If you want I can give you more fuel for that fire if you want... And the whole I was pointing out was that you made everything into black and white... The build up to the war is something most people forget to look at, I was just pointing out items to consider...

Jaden wrote:It may be a conspiracy theory, but it's what I believe... At one time it was dismissed saying that Woodrow Wilson was in a coma durning the last year of his term...

So? People are wrong about things all the time. History is revised constantly! But it's revised by people who do some research and uncover evidence to support a plausible counter-claim, not by internet forum avengers who will treat abject speculation like fact just because it meshes with their pre-existing cynical world view and precious little else.

There is no compelling evidence that proves, or even partially supports, the claim that FDR knew about Pearl Harbour in advance. You might as well be saying that he knew about it because he was told by a pair of captured psychic aliens.

This thread needs three things:

-More bullshit!
-No sources!
-BIG PRIZES!

And another thing: just use periods, for god's sake! Because everywhere you put an ellipse is a perfectly functional place for a period. I mean, you aren't even using them as ellipses. You're putting them between completed, working sentences. You HAVE sentences, why won't you admit it? WHY OH GOD

What Esrever wanted to say:

And another thing: I fucked your mom and your sister last night, Jaden. At the same time.

not by internet forum avengers who will treat abject speculation like fact just because it meshes with their pre-existing cynical world view and precious little else.

That's, uh... that's called religion, actually.

I will admit that the week thing may be a bit off, that's just one account I read, I should have put up to a week. But I also base it on accounts saying pre-OSS outposts picked up transmissions about a coming attack. Also the reports that the commanders at Pearl Harbour knew that there was spy activity around the base to the time leading up to the attack. And finally the fact that outline nearly step per step was in a book written Yamato and published years before the attack. I book which FDR had been stated as have read and been combed over by his Brain Trust. A book that was started in the Japanese embassy in Washington DC by Yamato durning a visit in the 30's, which was know about one way or another the usually conclusion is that the embassy was bugged. I know it's not much, but in my eyes this provides limited proof that some information relating to the attack on Pearl Harbour was known beforehand.

Oh, and by the way I have two sisters. One is more or less a whore and the other is a 'born again' Christian crusader who drinks. So he could have nailed them.

I am sure that they suspected possible military retaliation from the Japanese. But that theory about how Roosevelt knew where and when in advance, and let it happen so he could use it to get Americans to support the war... that's the part I don't buy.

Heh, Gibbon, I was thinking that same thing as I typed that message. I almost added a sentence: "Maybe you're allowed to act that way about Jesus, but not about American presidents." But I self-censored myself. ^_^

The where was a given. Since most of the US fleet was just moved to Pearl Harbour and most of it was docked in shallow water, it was the prime target. But I also feel that it's odd that an entire fleet could get so close to such large naval stronghold unnoticed. But to that end it's a, pardon the expression, leap of faith. But also consider that this same type of discussion will in a decade or two happen about 9/11. All it really comes down to is which mistake do you like the best.

On a completely unrelated note, Jaden, you type how William Shatner speaks.

This thread is so fucking hilarious. XD

It's all Chris's fault.

Actually I do base my speak after William Shatner. Along with Christopher Walken and Peter Falk. Good for you on picking up on that.

Oh-kaay.

Jaden wrote:Actually I do base my speak after William Shatner. Along with Christopher Walken and Peter Falk. Good for you on picking up on that.

That's my job.

Your mom and your sister!

Why is that even an insult. All it really does is says that person is a man-whore. Also it makes no real sense, claiming sexual conquest of people you have never even seen while you sit behide a computer screen.

Your mom and sister are man-whores. And they claim sexual conquest of you.

AND THAT'S NOT THE SHORT OF IT. They don't die in Japan. You know why? Because they practice the mystical art of Shinto. Do you know about Shinto? There is NO DEATH in Shinto. You just sort of become kami. Sure, they want you to think that Shinto is a long dead religion, but it's all part of their complex, epic plot. I bet they're just waiting to blast our asses with some fucking Kami Cannon or something, that we have funded by purchasing their pop culture. And what can we do? Y'know, I need my anime porn. I'd die without it. They have us right where they want us. Our fate is sealed and it's just a matter of time.

And Hiroshi Yamauchi is the mastermind behind all of it.