Smash Bros 3 Site Goes Live.

[Hybrid]

But you turn off the plat former arenas because they're "unbalanced" . . .

No they're not. What is it with everyone assuming Final Destination is the only stage ever played in tournaments? Its actually a pretty broken stage in favor of anyone with good projectile moves. For example, Pokemon Stadium is played in tournaments. So are the Kirby stages (actually I'm not sure about the one with exploding blocks, but the 64 stage is allowed), Corneria is allowed, Battlefield is allowed, etc. The only stages banned are the moving ones where you spend more time scrambling to keep up than you do actually fighting, and Hyrule Temple (the only stage in the game where you can "camp", ie. use Fox and just hit and run with lasers and have no chance of being caught).

Popular doesn't equal good.

Of course, but the fact they've been playing it competitively for so long proves that there is a competitive aspect, does it not? How good you think it is seems totally irrelevant to the fact that it exists.

Also, its retarded to say it flat-out "Isn't good" just because you don't like it. Again, there's no reason everyone has to find enjoyment from the same things you do and since nobody is forcing you to play like that I don't see why everyone gets their panties in a twist when someone says they enjoy playing the game competitively.

[Segaholic2]

Competitive Smash play is retarded and breeds the most insufferable faggots imaginable.

[Hybrid]

The only thing more retarded than the competitive assholes who shit on everyone who doesn't play their way (which incidentally is a very small minority of the people on Smash Boards although I wont deny that they exist), are the ignorant cocksuckers who refuse to believe that a game can be played in any way other than the one they do and that everyone who thinks otherwise is wrong, despite having no real reasoning behind their opinions other than the fact that they know shit all about it and can't be bothered to learn.

[Zeta]

Ah, here we go. Anyone who doesn't play HARDCOREFINALDESTINATION is an idiot n00b scrub who can't understand the depth and complexities of Fox vs Fox on a featureless stage!

[Esrever]

Still, I mean, isn't it kind of ridiculous to come out and say that a competitive game shouldn't be played competitively? It's a multi-player fighter, and it does have a strong skill component. The designers give you the option to disable all of the random party elements... it's kind of silly to suggest they didn't intend for people to have the option of playing the game that way.

I could see people questioning, I don't know, competitive Mario Kart or Mario Party. (Do those things exist?) But Smash Bros isn't like those game at all... it's an immense, highly customizable fighter designed in such a way so that it can be enjoyed by both casual and hardcore players. (No matter how freakin' annoying those casual and hardcore players might be!)

[Zeta]

OK, really weird. Stickers are used to level up your characters for single-player mode.

[Hybrid]

Ah, here we go. Anyone who doesn't play HARDCOREFINALDESTINATION is an idiot n00b scrub who can't understand the depth and complexities of Fox vs Fox on a featureless stage!

Is this what arguing on the GHZ is like? Should I really be expecting people to not even bother reading the very same post they're responding to?

I've already made my position very clear: I enjoy both competitive and "mess-around" play because both are equally fun in their own ways. I don't care how you, or anyone else, plays. The only thing I take exception to is people claiming that competitive Smash is stupid/doesn't exist, because both statements are equally incorrect.

Smart ass comments are expected all over the internet. I always figured smart ass comments on the GHZ, where posters are generally more intellectually capable, would at least be somewhat relevant. Oh well.

[Team Mecha]

Maybe a bad time to say this but I'm disappointed that the stickers can't be utilized outside of SSE. Nintendo's down with giving us the option of whether or not to use over powered-items or hazard heavy stages, but static enchantments for everybody is too much? I mean it could've been strictly optional to use them just like everything else.

[Hybrid]

I can kind of see the reasoning. I went over to a friends house recently and he had one of the DBZ fighting games in his PS2, so we played that. I kept getting my ass handed to me and asked "Am I really that bad?", to which he replied "No, its just you're using default characters while my guys have been customized". It kind of sucked.

I guess they could bundle the sticker data with the control data that they're already storing on the wiimote so you could take your own sticker combinations to a friend's house to play. At the end of the day though, would it really matter? We may just not know enough about the different sticker effects, but if they're all just "+10 Speed" or "+10 Attack" (or possibly "Longer Range", etc), then wouldn't everyone just get the highest possible boost stickers and slap them onto every trophy anyway? Essentially making the characters as even as they would be without any stickers at all.

Of course, I'm hoping for some really cool powers (other than stat boosts) to accompany certain stickers. A Sonic sticker that gives every character a damaging "somersault" jump would be awesome.

[Radrappy]

your friend sounds like a dick. Why the hell would he give himself such a huge handicap?

[Hybrid]

Oh, he is.

[The Iron Giant]

I like that its only for the Subspace Emissary. Makes it that much more unique than the other modes.

[G.Silver]

The thing that drives me nuts about the Blue Shell is that it's only given to the people in the last places, but it only hurts the person in 1st place (well, them and whoever else is near them). So effectively, it just gives the 8th place player the ability to make the 2nd place player win. What's the point of that?

That's exactly why it's fun in multiplayer though, because it screws over the guy who's in first, and as soon as you fire it someone (maybe a couple someones)'s gonna be screaming Shit Shit Shit as he scrambles to try to take out the #2 guy with him. In a multiplayer match that's just for fun, I think that's great, because whoever is in 8th place might never catch up anyway, but at least he gets to shake things up up there a bit. The computer, being a cold and emotionless entity, has no need for something like that, it's not going to take any satisfaction for it. The only thing it does is piss off the guy who's trying desperately to get those last few star rankings (I play MK DS mostly).

The Lightning in the DS version also has the interesting quirk that it lasts longer for the people who are placed closer to the front, effectively scrunching the distance between all the players somewhat, but while that gives 8th place a better chance to close on 1st, it means he has less time to actually pass the people who are closer to him.

[Frieza2000]

Competitive Smash play is retarded

I'm sure we all want to move on, but I'd like to try to bring some insight to this. Playing Smash Bros like Mortal Kombat may not be what the designers had in mind, but it works out brilliantly. The problem with many fighters today is that they're too combo-heavy, with ridiculously long, counter intuitive, unforgiving sequences that result in all but a hardcore minority of players using some degree of button mashing. Even if you are able to memorize a character's moves, or just a few simple ones that you stick with, it's still easy to screw up and do the wrong move. The technical aspect becomes an obstacle to the tactical.

One of the things that makes Smash Bros so great, not to mention popular, is its simplicity. Your move set is limited to something you can keep readily in mind, as opposed to many arcade fighters where the list is pages long, and it's rare that you accidentally do the wrong one because the combos are so clean and distinct. With control issues out of the way, you can concentrate on the actual fighting. Supplemented by the depth of platform-style arenas and the KO system, you can have some incredible battles.

I used to ritually play this (first 64, then Melee) with my brother after school. We'd screw around with items and computers eventually, but we'd always start out with a few 1 on 1 matches with no items in non-cheap-death stages. There were times I wished we were taping it. The split second tactical decisions, the on-the-fly strategic development, just the mind games involved made it one of the most intense competitive experiences of my life. I don't know anything about wave dashing or bomb jumping or edge guarding or any of that nonsense I've heard of, but competitive play in these games isn't retarded. Maybe it can be, but it can be beautiful too.

[Shadow Hog]

While I can admit that making the game more like a generic Capcom fighter is probably good fun, you forgot to note that some of these tourney-ists are so stuck up that they insist the only way to play the game is Fox vs. Fox.

I mean, for Christ's sake, he may be the "top tier" character but that doesn't mean he should be the ONLY character. It's retarded... it's like having a Street Fighter tournament in which you're not allowed to play as anyone except Akuma.

[Frieza2000]

I was just musing about the tourney style of play. We all hate 12 year olds on the Internet.

[Wooduck51]

Competitive Smash play is retarded

I'm sure we all want to move on, but I'd like to try to bring some insight to this. Playing Smash Bros like Mortal Kombat may not be what the designers had in mind, but it works out brilliantly. The problem with many fighters today is that they're too combo-heavy, with ridiculously long, counter intuitive, unforgiving sequences that result in all but a hardcore minority of players using some degree of button mashing. Even if you are able to memorize a character's moves, or just a few simple ones that you stick with, it's still easy to screw up and do the wrong move. The technical aspect becomes an obstacle to the tactical.

You mean you don't like playing a game with commands like this:
?

And I have only ever successfully wave dashed once in my life, and decided that trying to learn how to do it at will was a large waste of time; has it really been removed from brawl?

[The Iron Giant]

Yeah, Wavedashing is apparently gone. Though I'm sure they will find something new to exploit within the first couple of minutes playing.

[Isuka]

OK, I know you can disable the items in order to get a more competitive play and all that, but pretending all the different stages and all the characters' movesets must be "tournament friendly" in what's more or less a party game is ridiculous, and banning both stages and characters because they aren't "completely and totally fair and exploit-free" is frankly laughable.

It's worth noting that all this applies to the tourneyfags themselves, the "extreme kind", not right-minded people who are still capable of understanding the difference between a 4-player all-out party game that can be tuned to a more competitive style and a true, one-on-one, technical fighter that relies on (not that much) complex button combinations, quick reflexes, eye-hand coordination and mind games to defeat the opponent (these games are frequently updated just to eliminate exploits and glitches, and the better ones will never punish the player for choosing a certain character just because it doesn't have projectiles). If you just enjoy a more competitive approach then that's alright, but those who not only think this game actually IS a valid technical fighter if they disable and ban everything it has to offer, depriving it from its identity, but also try to force this twisted mentality into other people's heads, are totally nuts and really deserve to be told to STFU.

[Shadow Hog]

Yeah, Wavedashing is apparently gone. Though I'm sure they will find something new to exploit within the first couple of minutes playing.

They had, actually. I think they called it "ink dropping". Despite the fact it has nothing to do with ink and very little to do with dropping (unless you count entering and exiting the crawling maneuver repeatedly "dropping", anyway).

Where the hell do they come up with these names, anyway?

[Hybrid]

I think the guy who found it goes by the name "ink" (or a variation thereof) on Smash boards. I'm not sure what the trick actually does though, I remember it not being very interesting.

It should be noted that gimpy (one of the guys being quoted on the demo which started this whole discussion) mains Bowser.

[Edgerock]

For anyone whose curious about who gimpy is, here's a live video of him discussing Brawl...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-gEg7hNpKM

[Yami CJMErl]

I think the guy who found it goes by the name "ink" (or a variation thereof) on Smash boards. I'm not sure what the trick actually does though, I remember it not being very interesting.

Yeah--but as the ED article says, it may have been "intentionally programmed" into the game, as oppposed to the glitch that led to the discovery of wavedashing, and that "tounreyfags" only use moves like that if they're not official.

Granted, it's probably mentioned just for laughs (like how they say "tourneyfags haet options"), but it's there.

[Sniffnoy]

The more I hear about these "tourneyfags" the more I suspect they consist of internet 13-year olds who like to force other people to do things their way, and, having heard a bit about tournaments, and thinking Smash tournaments are obviously a great idea, figures this is obviously how they must be run! Because anyone cool enough to come up with such an idea must think like them as well.

[Timestones]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. People who actually attend and participate in Smash tournaments, for the most part, are pretty cool about being flexible in the way they and others play the game. At least from my experience anyway.

Of course, there is the occasional overlap of actual tournament players and tourneyfags, but that's to be expected.