I don't wanna die! Ahhh...

Double-S- · Post by **Double-S-** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:28 am

Not Sonic Team news, but cool Sega news.

The Magic Box wrote:Sega just had a location test of its new arcade lightgun shooter The House of the Dead 4 in Japan at the Ikebukuro GIGO amusement center. The game runs on 16:9 HDTV monitor and 2 levels are playable, the shotgun is replaced with a machine gun. The game seems to be running on a new arcade board, possible a Xbox 360 compatible board from its specifications.

Yay. I'm glad HotD is staying classic. What happened with those rumors about the series being turned into the survival horror genre?

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:25 pm

It should be noted that "HotD" or rather, "Hot D," is a character from Crazy Taxi 2.

j-man · Post by **j-man** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:27 pm

OMG NO WAY

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:08 pm

This is so awesome, I have to play the song Plush over and over again in celebration.

Dunjohn · Post by **Dunjohn** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:24 pm

A machine gun, ah Christ no-one lays into zombies with a machine gun. The scatter is too great and the likelihood of your random shots, however plentiful, disabling a zombie sufficiently are minor. Additionally, the loud protracted noise of the typical machine gun will only alert more zombies to your presence.

But that's real life. In game terms, they've sold out goddamn them. I want my bleedin' magnum back.

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:05 pm

Machine guns are a lot more effective then shotguns if nothing more for versatility. Shotguns are pretty much limited in range to 50 yards (shot) or 100 yards (slugs). Machine guns can be used effectively in close quarters or out to 1000 meters. And if it's a general purpose (full power rifle cartridge) machine gun the energy of each round is about equal to a 12-gauge shotgun blast. Granted less energy is going to be transmitted to the target, but plenty is still dished out.

Besides 100 to 200 rounds of 7.62mm or 5.56mm is definitly better then 6-8 shotgun shells.

And any so-called scatter of the shots wouldn't really happen. If the machine gunner is using controlled bursts then his weapon will be just as accurate as any other rifle (barring match-grade precision sniper weapons of course). Full automatic and the aforementioned ample ammunition supply allows you to lay down covering fire.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:22 pm

Chris, they're zombies. You don't lay down cover fire, you shoot it until it stops moving, and then you burn it.

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:28 pm

Well if they were intelligent Zombies, then they wouldn't want to get shot. In any case, I would rather have a machine gun then a traditional shotgun. If I had the option of a SPAS-15, Neostead, AA-12, USAS-12, XM26 or a MAG-7, then I would take one of those, but the old 12-gauge 8-shot pump gun is a bit antiquated, and frankly, I wouldn't want to be forced to reload shell by shell.

Besides, Laura Parton got by fine with just a civilian legal, semi-automatic TMP submachine gun with a paltry fifteen round magazine.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:30 pm

chriscaffee wrote:Well if they were intelligent Zombies, then they wouldn't want to get shot.

They aren't intelligent. They're fucking zombies.

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:39 pm

Now you're just steriotyping.

Dunjohn · Post by **Dunjohn** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:42 pm

I've never encountered an intelligent zombie in my area so that's all just theoretical. A good pistol is better than a machine gun in my experience; all it takes is a single well-aimed shot, something that's next to impossible with an automatic weapon. Shotgun's good but a little too gung-ho, it's got the power but not the range. At the right range it'll take card of a zombie no problem, but so will a handgun and with range to spare, too.

About the only practical use a machine gun has in fighting zombies is when there are plentiful fuel barrels nearby. They'll make more holes faster, meaning you can have a good-sized puddle to fling a cigarette into sooner. Again, though, that takes careful herding of the target zombies, and I'd just rather shoot them.

Omni Hunter · Post by **Omni Hunter** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:12 pm

I wouldn't try argueing about firearms with Chris, it's probably his forte.
That said, I agree that a pistol would be quite sufficient against standard zombies, especially if you plan to save your heavier firepower for the stronger ones.

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:08 pm

A pistol more accurate then a machine gun? You do realize machine guns are simply automatic rifles with heavier barrels so they can fire longer bursts and are typically belt fed, though they can be magazine fed? A pistol is good up to 50 meters if you are prone, have both hands on it and don't breath. A good machine gun can engage area targets 1000 meters away and point targets up to 500 meters away.

What are you talking about? A machine gun is infinitly more accurate then a pistol because the shooting platform is much more stable. With a machine gun you are firing from either the shoulder, a tripod, or a bipod. Do you realize that the longest range confirmed sniper kill was a .50 caliber machine gun at over 2500 meters away?

CE · Post by CE » Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:27 pm

These aren't your standard zombies, these are Of The Dead zombies. They can be beaten by friggin keyboards.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:03 pm

"Parliament"
BAM! Grenade to the face.

Double-S- · Post by **Double-S-** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:27 pm

The longest confirmed sniper kill was performed with a machine gun?

Also: Who cares? It's House of the Dead.

DarkPrime · Post by **DarkPrime** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:38 pm

Machine gun or automatic rifle? I'd lean more towards an automatic rifle. Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:46 pm

Double-S- wrote:Also: Who cares?

Caffee cares, otherwise, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Dunjohn · Post by **Dunjohn** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:01 am

Omni Hunter wrote:I wouldn't try argueing about firearms with Chris, it's probably his forte.
That said, I agree that a pistol would be quite sufficient against standard zombies, especially if you plan to save your heavier firepower for the stronger ones.

My point exactly. I do know that Chris is a good-ol down-home guns fanatic, it kinda comes up worryingly often on these boards... it's just, zombies aren't your typical adversary. Fighting the undead involves having to burden a psychological disadvantage that no other possible adversary could induce. It's enough to sway the normal pros and cons of weapon choice. Zombies simply aren't affected by weapons normal targets would be, and the inevitable sense of panic they induce means most of a machine gun's rounds are going to go to waste. The caution and care a non-automatic weapon demands of it's user takes on a much higher importance when fighting the undead.

Also, sniping zombies is rarely necessary; it's the ones up close that are the problem, so you don't need massive range, just enough to clear the immediate area before they swarm you.

But back to computer games... Crisis Zone was fun but it wasn't a patch on Time Crisis 2 or 3. The shotgun in HotD 3 felt odd, but it did feel nice 'n zombieie. A machine gun in a FPS zombie game... dunno.

chriscaffee · Post by **chriscaffee** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:37 am

Hathock holds the longest kill shot from 2286 meters with an M2 .50 caliber machine gun equipped with an 8x scope.

In real life Dunjohn, a machine gun will serve you better then a pistol or a shotgun. I don't think zombies are any more terrifying then any other "monster" intent on killing you so your psychological argument is not only crap, but it's grasping at straws. Don't try and explain video game armaments with logic. It's tradition alone that the shotty is an anti-Zombie weapon. That said, there are better alternatives to the tube-mag pump gun, but you aren't going to see them, because they break up the tradition and the coolness or whatever.

-wyvern · Post by **-wyvern** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:57 am

What about a machinegun that shoots shotgun cartriges really fast?

I win.

...Seriously, Pistols and Shotguns have to have SOME advantages over a proper machine-gun, otherwise no-one would buy them. Example: You destract a zombie with casual conversation, and then suddenly whip a pistol from your sporran and blast his head off. Machineguns (of the automatic rifle kind, anyway) are noted for thier size; pistols are easily concealed and can still kill at close range. Shotguns... Well, variety is the spice of life; if you want to down a zombie pheasant for your supper, a shotgun will do the job. If you hit a bird with a high velocity rifle it will probably explode, and if you miss the bird someone half a mile away gets a bullet falling in their front garden. Iunno, you know more about it than me.

DarkPrime · Post by **DarkPrime** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:07 am

SPAS-12. Semi-automatic shotgun.

ph34r 1t.

Baba O'Reily · Post by **Baba O'Reily** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:47 am

...Seriously, who the hell would need an automatic shotgun? What practical purpose does it serve?

Locit · Post by **Locit** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:29 am

Shooting things that you've already obliterated again even faster?

j-man · Post by **j-man** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:39 am

Maybe if you wanted to take on Godzilla in one-on-one combat?